Darren Roberts Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I have the hankering to do a 1/48 BA Skyhawk. I've got the Super Fox intakes and the wing root boarding ladder piece. In looking at pictures, there seems to be an A-4M like bulge just below the nozzle area. I'm assuming this is the smoke system. Is there a Hasegawa kit I can scavenge this piece from? Does the A-4M kit have it? Also, I tried googling for pictures but came up empty. Anybody have a decent picture of it? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) That bulge is still the parachute housing, even on the BA aircraft. The smoke tank was internal on the A-4s. I want to say they installed the para brake on their jets, as a backup, since they didn't have use of the slats and landed at a higher than normal speed. The piece is available in the A-4M kit. Edited October 25, 2015 by 82Whitey51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Space Tiger Hobbes Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Darren, I'm not expert but did get a ride in the #7 jet years ago. From the Blue Angels site: https://www.blueangels.navy.mil/show/faq.aspx, it says the smoke is created by injecting paraffin directly into the exhaust, so I assume the system is largely invisible from the outside. That bulge/can is a small parabrake housing for short field landings, according to D&S. In the images I looked at, it's on the BA single seaters but not the #7 jet. Not sure why. Due to a recent move, the stash is in disarray, but the Hasegawa 1/48 A-4M does show the parabrake part. The Monogram Hi Tech A-4E does not. If it's on the Hasegawa TA-4, it's not shown on the used parts. I would bet money, but not much that you could find it on any A-4M and foreward, including Hobbycraft. Searching further, it's not shown on the directions for the current Revellogram Blue Angels A-4. I do see it in photos of builds using the Hasegawa, ESCI, and Hobbycraft A-4M kits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Thanks all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 In the images I looked at, it's on the BA single seaters but not the #7 jet. Not sure why. Might have been the particular #7 jet at the time but "722" has the para-brake housing. Just for general research, here's a look at the top of the #7 jet too. Some say it didn't have the yellow on top like the single seaters but... Also note the slat areas are blue, not red. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Might have been the particular #7 jet at the time but "722" has the para-brake housing. Just for general research, here's a look at the top of the #7 jet too. Some say it didn't have the yellow on top like the single seaters but... Also note the slat areas are blue, not red. How about the inside of the slat? Still blue or red like the flaps?? Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Space Tiger Hobbes Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Great pics. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 How about the inside of the slat? Still blue or red like the flaps?? Andy Hmmm...I dunno. Good question! :)/> I want to say that they may be bare metal??? I guess I'll go dig around and see what I can find. In the meantime (as I run roughshod through Darren's post !)...here's "Casper", which as you can see did not have the para-brake canister. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Hmmm...I dunno. Good question! :)/>/> I want to say that they may be bare metal??? I guess I'll go dig around and see what I can find. In the meantime (as I run roughshod through Darren's post !)...here's "Casper", which as you can see did not have the para-brake canister. Oh man! Any one makes decals for 2 seat BA birds? For both schemes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Oh man! :woot.gif:/> Any one makes decals for 2 seat BA birds? For both schemes Oh yeah, "Casper": http://camdecals.com/milspecac48-a4-001blueangelscasperta4j.aspx Blue No. 7 TA-4J: http://camdecals.com/p48-024.aspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) How about the inside of the slat? Still blue or red like the flaps?? Andy The instruction sheet to the Hasegawa BA TA-4J calls for the inside of the slat to be blue...but it also calls for the flap and speed brake wells to be blue as well so...? Hasegawa instructions can be sketchy sometimes, always best to back it up with reference pics. http://www.model-making.eu/products/TA-4J-Blue-Angels.html Edited October 26, 2015 by 82Whitey51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chriss7606 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Correct on the drag chute cannister. The only part of the smoke system that was visible on the A-4 was the small tube that released the oil directly into the exhaust. It appears as a small wick (for lack of a better term) that extends at an angle from the center of the sugar scoop toward the exaust. A piece of stretched sprue or very fine wire would suffice. Also, don't forget that the BA Scooters had extra padding inside the canopy to keep the pilots from getting slammed around during the maneuvers. There is an excellent build here in the gallery, though the builder's name escapes me at the moment. He used Tamiya spray laquers for the finish and it looks great. Incidently, the Tamiya laquers are probably the best gloss paint's I've used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Great stuff, guys! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The instruction sheet to the Hasegawa BA TA-4J calls for the inside of the slat to be blue...but it also calls for the flap and speed brake wells to be blue as well so...? Hasegawa instructions can be sketchy sometimes, always best to back it up with reference pics. http://www.model-making.eu/products/TA-4J-Blue-Angels.html Just to clear up any question, the inside of the SPEED BRAKE wells are in fact blue...flaps, red. Still can't find a definitive picture of the inside/underside of the No. 7 jets polished slats. Right now, if I built one, I think I'd paint them blue like the slat area on the main wing. Speed brake wells: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) How about the inside of the slat? Still blue or red like the flaps?? Andy So far, this is the best photo I can find...is there a hint of red on that slat track???? I can't really say. Note of caution, the Valiant Air Command museum has a TA-4J painted as Blue Angels No.7, BuNo. 158722. But it is NOT that jet. I was going to just drop them an email and have them go take a look and get back to me. Their jet looks nice, but it is BuNo. 152867, never a Blues jet. There are lots of photos of it on the interwebs...still none that quite show the slat detail you're looking for though. BuNo 158722 is out on the USS Lexington museum repainted as a trainer. :(/>/>/>/> The above photo is the actual 158722, seats are correct and those old cars in the background place the pic in the 70s/80s. Also, the script of "Blue Angels" is correct...the VAC jet is more sharp on the tip of the "A". Edited October 27, 2015 by 82Whitey51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 I'm thinking that looks red underneath the slat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm thinking that looks red underneath the slat. Yeah it looks red where that bit of the slat rail is in the sunlight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a4s4eva Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) I don't know about the blue angels but the RNZAF made smoke by injecting diesel into the exhaust gas. The diesel was carried in 150 gal tanks on the centreline and the rest of the plumbing was internal to the aircraft This image is looking up at the bottom of the drag chute housing (the drag chute didn't deploy correctly, these are part of maintenance investigation) You can see the pipe above the drag chute You can also see the black pipe in this image on the left hand side. Edited November 1, 2015 by a4s4eva Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticWeapons Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Screen captures from different portions of this Blue Angels Skyhawk video found on YouTube: Edited November 1, 2015 by PlasticWeapons Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 That's awesome! Thanks for a great discussion all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 The only part of the smoke system that was visible on the A-4 was the small tube that released the oil directly into the exhaust. It appears as a small wick (for lack of a better term) that extends at an angle from the center of the sugar scoop toward the exaust. A piece of stretched sprue or very fine wire would suffice. To clarify, the oil pipe extends vertically downward from the underside of the sugar scoop. It is visible on some (but not all) of the A-4s hanging inside the USN museum in Pensacola. I can't find my pics right now but I'm sure there are plenty out there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chriss7606 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) The still shots from the YouTube video show it well. All six demo jets had it judging from the film and from photos in "Blue Angels 50 Years of Precision Flight" by Nicholas A. Veronico and Marga B. Fritze. The book is a pretty good read with a lot of interesting stories. As for the A-4s in the atrium at the National Naval Aviation Museum, they are not necessarily representative of the actual configuration that the Blues flew. -#1 painted as BuNo. 154180 is actually BuNo. 150076 and did not fly with the team. Its last assignment was VFA-127. The real 154180 is at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. -#2 BuNo. 154983 did fly with the team. -#3 BuNo. 155033 also flew with the team but was reassigned to two other squadrons after its use with the Blues. -#4 BuNo. 154217 flew with the team for at least the 1984 season. Just a little background that might be helpful. The best I can suggest is to go from the period photos. The YouTube video is pretty neat and shows a walkaround of the A-4 as well as the cockpit and folding ladder which might be useful. Edited November 3, 2015 by chriss7606 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jaypack44 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Here's a shot of the system of 154180 at the Museum of Flight: A-4 Skyhawk by Josh Kaiser, on Flickr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Outstanding picture. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Here's a shot of the system of 154180 at the Museum of Flight: A-4 Skyhawk by Josh Kaiser, on Flickr I take it the TA-4 did not have a smoke system as it was not part of the display routine? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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