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B-1B to B-1A conversion


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I had saved a thread of someone converting a B-1B to a B-1A and now the link doesn't work anymore. Does anyone have this saved or know where the thread got to? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Lee

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  • 2 weeks later...

Its not much to converse, just depends on which model you wish to build. Only one had a dorsal spine, but almost all of the A models had a different type nose gear. On top of that, you will have the engine nacelle blisters and turkey feathers, and only one or two had canopies with seams around the cockpit area with explosive shaped charges for the crew compartment separation. Very few aircraft out there actually stayed an A model, and all of them are non flying. Best example would be airframe #3, which is at Wings over the Rockies in Denver, CO.

Edited by utley
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i know what thread you're talking about... but didn't succeed either to find it back...(whether it was here or on another board...)

all i find was related toMoon-Gon Jo 's build, here, in the gallery...

here's someone else, on Finescale that also did the backdate......same build but on network54...

...and also a post in the long B-1 thread here, in the jet modeling forum that should interest you...

Edited by mingwin
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Its not much to converse, just depends on which model you wish to build. Only one had a dorsal spine, but almost all of the A models had a different type nose gear. On top of that, you will have the engine nacelle blisters and turkey feathers, and only one or two had canopies with seams around the cockpit area with explosive shaped charges for the crew compartment separation. Very few aircraft out there actually stayed an A model, and all of them are non flying. Best example would be airframe #3, which is at Wings over the Rockies in Denver, CO.

Actually both #3 and #4 had the dorsal spine for awhile. Here's #3:

http://oeigin-www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/Rockwell-B-1A-Lancer/2546643/L/

#4:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/Rockwell-B-1A-Lancer/0985107/L/&sid=7168ec6af81ce7dc54c2098f605c120a

The quickest way to tell them apart was the black nose radome on #3, versus the camouflaged nose on #4. Also the rear fuselage of #3 was longer and more pointed.

The first three B-1As had an escape capsule while the fourth jet had ejection seats. For the three with the capsule you can make out the stowed stabilizers on the sides of the cockpit.

While B-1As #2 and #4 were used in development testing for the B-1B, all four remained A-models. #2 crashed during testing, killing Rockwell test pilot Doug Benefield when the capsule parachute deployment malfunctioned. They had been testing center of gravity effects with the wing at different positions, controlling the CG by overriding the automatic fuel transfer system. They accidentally swept the wings back with the CG too far aft for that configuration, causing the airplane to pitch up out of control.

Edited by Scott R Wilson
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Well…..that’s a good question. I cannot find that thread either.

That’s sucks because I am the person who started that thread !!!

The project is to convert the 1/48th Revell B-1B to B-1A #4.

I’ve forgotten that I even started a thread for it. As you can imagine the project has been on a sort of hiatus these past 2+ years. Here’s the story about the last 2 years. Sorry it’s a bit long winded…..then I’ll get back to B-1A #4 (I promise).

In the last few months of 2013 we knew we would be moving across country. So in prep for that I started packing up stuff I knew I wouldn’t need for a long time…chiefly my huge model stash. There was work to be done on the house in prep for putting it on the market. Also, at the same time I started experiencing some health issues. At the beginning of 2014 the move was becoming a reality so I packed up my entire model stash and in-progress kits. My health issue had become more serious, but the good news was that it was a bad infection and I was taking antibiotics that you would normally give to people who had been exposed to Anthrax (seriously). By Spring of 2014 the move had suddenly changed….instead of going across country we would only be moving 15 miles away to the next town down the road. Our house had been sold, but we were not going to do the actual move for 2 more months. It was then that it was determined that it wasn’t an infection the antibiotics weren’t doing anything and my swelling had continued to grow and it was instead Cancer ! So I had my first big surgery to remove a 6x5x4 cm tumor. Surgery was easy enough. They said “they got it all” and I was easily going to be healed in time for the move.

So we get to within 4 weeks of the move and a CT/PET scan indicates that my cancer had metastasized. Now it was spreading through my abdominal cavity around my kidneys and near the spine. I was given 9-18 months to live….that was 18 months ago ! F*** U Cancer ! So next up would be some heavy duty chemotherapy. Right in the middle of chemo we made the move….never move while doing chemo….it sucks. Needless to say that it took me 12-15 month to get back to “normal”. The mental aspect was/is the worst part of it. As it stands now I have damage to my kidneys, lungs, heart, hearing, and neuropathy because of the chemo. It’s not too bad, some of it (lungs, kidneys, and heart) I wouldn’t even know about had it not been for a battery of tests that have quantified it. I see my oncologist every three months (until July which marks my 2 year post chemo cancerversary). After that it cuts down to every 6 months for the next 3 years. Then every year till I die of something other than the cancer I had. Essentially I will still likely live into my 70s and maybe 80s. Not too bad considering I just had my 41st birthday two weeks ago.

Needless to say it has only been the last few months since I started back into building models. It had been a slooow process getting back into the hobby.

As for the B-1. I have completed the forward section, minus exterior paint. After looking at the double conical nose I crafted I see that there is a bit more sanding/smoothing to do. I have also started on the Engine nacelles and inlets. It’s crude but to me only the end results will matter.

I still have all of my pics and reference material so getting back to this project is easy enough. With winter coming I will have more time to work on it.

I will start a new thread for it. I will re-cap everything I have done and re-post the pics.

I had completely forgotten that I had started that thread until I saw this one and I immediately knew it was mine that you were looking for. I am glad you did start this thread because I think you just gave me a kick in the butt to get back to that project and further with this hobby. Thanks.

Oh, and as far as the cancer goes….I kicked it’s @$$ ! The chances of it coming back are slim. It’s highly likely that I have been cured.

- Matt

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Actually both #3 and #4 had the dorsal spine for awhile. Here's #3:

http://oeigin-www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/Rockwell-B-1A-Lancer/2546643/L/

#4:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/Rockwell-B-1A-Lancer/0985107/L/&sid=7168ec6af81ce7dc54c2098f605c120a

The quickest way to tell them apart was the black nose radome on #3, versus the camouflaged nose on #4. Also the rear fuselage of #3 was longer and more pointed.

The first three B-1As had an escape capsule while the fourth jet had ejection seats. For the three with the capsule you can make out the stowed stabilizers on the sides of the cockpit.

While B-1As #2 and #4 were used in development testing for the B-1B, all four remained A-models. #2 crashed during testing, killing Rockwell test pilot Doug Benefield when the capsule parachute deployment malfunctioned. They had been testing center of gravity effects with the wing at different positions, controlling the CG by overriding the automatic fuel transfer system. They accidentally swept the wings back with the CG too far aft for that configuration, causing the airplane to pitch up out of control.

Airframe #3 is an unflyable trainer model, IIRC. Its currently stored at Wings over the Rockies. It didnt have anything special added on it when I last saw it...then again Im just a 5'7 tall fat dude!

Look - the B-1A and the B-1B are two separate aircraft. The tail cone on the -A is more pointy and aerodynamic than the -B. The nose gear is slightly different -varying hingepoints, and the strut is located differently. The radome is different.

The biggest difference between the A and the B is the simple fact that the A model was mostly a development concept in action. Very few if any A models went into service, so a creativity license can apply here if you are looking for absolute realism.

Edited by utley
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Well…..that’s a good question. I cannot find that thread either.

That’s sucks because I am the person who started that thread !!!

The project is to convert the 1/48th Revell B-1B to B-1A #4.

I’ve forgotten that I even started a thread for it. As you can imagine the project has been on a sort of hiatus these past 2+ years. Here’s the story about the last 2 years. Sorry it’s a bit long winded…..then I’ll get back to B-1A #4 (I promise).

In the last few months of 2013 we knew we would be moving across country. So in prep for that I started packing up stuff I knew I wouldn’t need for a long time…chiefly my huge model stash. There was work to be done on the house in prep for putting it on the market. Also, at the same time I started experiencing some health issues. At the beginning of 2014 the move was becoming a reality so I packed up my entire model stash and in-progress kits. My health issue had become more serious, but the good news was that it was a bad infection and I was taking antibiotics that you would normally give to people who had been exposed to Anthrax (seriously). By Spring of 2014 the move had suddenly changed….instead of going across country we would only be moving 15 miles away to the next town down the road. Our house had been sold, but we were not going to do the actual move for 2 more months. It was then that it was determined that it wasn’t an infection the antibiotics weren’t doing anything and my swelling had continued to grow and it was instead Cancer ! So I had my first big surgery to remove a 6x5x4 cm tumor. Surgery was easy enough. They said “they got it all” and I was easily going to be healed in time for the move.

So we get to within 4 weeks of the move and a CT/PET scan indicates that my cancer had metastasized. Now it was spreading through my abdominal cavity around my kidneys and near the spine. I was given 9-18 months to live….that was 18 months ago ! F*** U Cancer ! So next up would be some heavy duty chemotherapy. Right in the middle of chemo we made the move….never move while doing chemo….it sucks. Needless to say that it took me 12-15 month to get back to “normal”. The mental aspect was/is the worst part of it. As it stands now I have damage to my kidneys, lungs, heart, hearing, and neuropathy because of the chemo. It’s not too bad, some of it (lungs, kidneys, and heart) I wouldn’t even know about had it not been for a battery of tests that have quantified it. I see my oncologist every three months (until July which marks my 2 year post chemo cancerversary). After that it cuts down to every 6 months for the next 3 years. Then every year till I die of something other than the cancer I had. Essentially I will still likely live into my 70s and maybe 80s. Not too bad considering I just had my 41st birthday two weeks ago.

Needless to say it has only been the last few months since I started back into building models. It had been a slooow process getting back into the hobby.

As for the B-1. I have completed the forward section, minus exterior paint. After looking at the double conical nose I crafted I see that there is a bit more sanding/smoothing to do. I have also started on the Engine nacelles and inlets. It’s crude but to me only the end results will matter.

I still have all of my pics and reference material so getting back to this project is easy enough. With winter coming I will have more time to work on it.

I will start a new thread for it. I will re-cap everything I have done and re-post the pics.

I had completely forgotten that I had started that thread until I saw this one and I immediately knew it was mine that you were looking for. I am glad you did start this thread because I think you just gave me a kick in the butt to get back to that project and further with this hobby. Thanks.

Oh, and as far as the cancer goes….I kicked it’s @$$ ! The chances of it coming back are slim. It’s highly likely that I have been cured.

- Matt

Dont give up on cancer, you still live in Texas! Go build that B-1...you never know how long it will take you to get it to where you want it...Im going on 8 years on mine, get that birdy finished.

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Utley,

I've not given up on cancer. As far as I am concerned it's been beat. It was a tough fight for sure. The chemo damn near killed me at the end. The whole experience made me a better person anyways.....I guess it was a kinda "wake up call" that I needed at that time.

Here's the new thread to replace my apparently lost thread:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=288555

BTW, looking at the picture you posted above....you would happen to have a good pic of the Pitot Tube on the -1A? That's one reference point that I have been unable to locate. I know it's has three points to it. Picture the SR-71 pitot tube but with another pointed end on the other side....kinda looking like a trident.

I spent most of yesterday hunting down all the pics that I have taken from 2 years ago. I have re-posted most of the best pics to the new post.

I still need to take new pics because I had gotten further on that build then were the pics left off ! I hope to get new pics taken of the build and the reference points updated in the next few days.

- Matt

Edited by JeskiM
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Utley,

I've not given up on cancer. As far as I am concerned it's been beat. It was a tough fight for sure. The chemo damn near killed me at the end. The whole experience made me a better person anyways.....I guess it was a kinda "wake up call" that I needed at that time.

Here's the new thread to replace my apparently lost thread:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=288555

BTW, looking at the picture you posted above....you would happen to have a good pic of the Pitot Tube on the -1A? That's one reference point that I have been unable to locate. I know it's has three points to it. Picture the SR-71 pitot tube but with another pointed end on the other side....kinda looking like a trident.

I spent most of yesterday hunting down all the pics that I have taken from 2 years ago. I have re-posted most of the best pics to the new post.

I still need to take new pics because I had gotten further on that build then were the pics left off ! I hope to get new pics taken of the build and the reference points updated in the next few days.

- Matt

I used to have a bunch of pictures from Wings Over the Rockies when I was in A&P school and I have no idea what happened to them. They were posted on ImageShack, but since they turned to a paysite...all my great pics just..disappeared. That particular B-1A never even left Buckley AFB, it was always a trainer of sorts; ordnance training, maintenance training, ect...the wheel casters were never even taken off and never had a single engine mounted in the nacelles. The true definition of a hangar queen. No -1A Ive ever encountered had a nose mounted pitot tube. Maybe airframe #1 might have had it, the initial B-1 demonstrator aircraft, but Im fairly certain that aircraft has long been since destroyed.

Then again...

B-1A_underside_1982.jpg

b-1b_28.jpg

And looking at this one tells me that the forward spine on this engine nacelle jets out a lot further than other -1As

b-1a-rollout.jpg

Edited by utley
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Here's what I mean by the pitot tube looking like a trident.

You can see in this head on shot that there are two extensions to side and just below the main "boom" of the long pitot tube. Just like on the SR-71 that has only one of them on the side.

Capture_9.jpg

This pic here clearly illustrates the two tips by the RBF tags:

Capture_10.jpg

I'd love to find a shot of it from above/below to get an idea of the exact placement for them.

- Matt

Edited by JeskiM
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I used to have a bunch of pictures from Wings Over the Rockies when I was in A&P school and I have no idea what happened to them. They were posted on ImageShack, but since they turned to a paysite...all my great pics just..disappeared. That particular B-1A never even left Buckley AFB, it was always a trainer of sorts; ordnance training, maintenance training, ect...the wheel casters were never even taken off and never had a single engine mounted in the nacelles. The true definition of a hangar queen. No -1A Ive ever encountered had a nose mounted pitot tube. Maybe airframe #1 might have had it, the initial B-1 demonstrator aircraft, but Im fairly certain that aircraft has long been since destroyed.

Then again...

B-1A_underside_1982.jpg

b-1b_28.jpg

And looking at this one tells me that the forward spine on this engine nacelle jets out a lot further than other -1As

b-1a-rollout.jpg

Utley, forgive me for saying this, but you so don't know what you are talking about. The Wings Over the Rockies B-1A is the #3 B-1A. It actually had more flying hours (829.4 hours in 138 sorties) than the other three B-1As when it was retired to Lowry AFB (not Buckley ANGB) for use as a ground trainer at the technical training center that was there before Lowry closed.

The dorsal fairing we've mentioned was a temporary installation on B-1As #3 and #4, for a deceptive jamming system called Crosseye. Both airplanes were originally delivered without it, and were originally painted overall white as were the other two B-1As. #3 and #4 were repainted in the tan, brown and green and had the Crosseye system installed for a series of Bomber Penetration Evaluation test flights that took place starting in late 1977, starting shortly after Carter had killed the original B-1 program in June that year. The BPE lasted through April 1981 after which the B-1As were stored at Edwards. I was fortunate to be on a tour of Edwards in early 1982 and saw B-1A numbers 2, 3, and 4 inside the B-1 Combined Test Force hangar, and the #1 B-1A in the main maintenance hangar toward the south end of the flightline. In late summer 1982 the #4 aircraft was brought out of storage and flown a few times locally at Edwards before flying to England to be displayed at Farnborough in September, 1982.

When Reagan revived the B-1 program as the B-1B, B-1As #2 and #4 were modified for the B-1B flight test program. The Crosseye system was removed from #4 (and I presume from #3 at the same time as well) during those modifications, and both aircraft were painted in the same dark gray and green camouflage that the B-1Bs were originally delivered in.

No B-1As were ever used operationally. After they were withdrawn from flight test, #1 was disassembled and taken to Rome Air Development Center in Rome, New York for antenna and radar signature testing. #2 crashed as discussed in my previous post. #3 was taken to Lowry for use as a weapons load trainer, and given to the Wings over the Rockies Museum established on the site after Lowry AFB closed. #4 was given to the Air Force Museum in Dayton where it was repainted in the original white scheme and displayed for years. It was later disassembled and trucked to Omaha where it was reassembled and went on display at the SAC Museum.

The first three B-1As had more pointed rear fuselage and stabilator fairings, while B-1A #4 had more the blunt appearance of the B-1B in those areas. All four B-1As had identical intakes, though the variable ramps were not made operational on ships 1,3, and 4, or so I have read. #4 had ejection seats, while 1, 2 and 3 had the capsule ejection system. With the capsule, there were no hatches on top of the cockpit that could be opened.

Utley, I am not interested in getting into urination contest with you, but you keep putting inaccurate information in your posts which you write as though you have authoritative knowledge of the B-1A. You obviously don't, so please do a modicum of research before you post.

Jeski, my apologies for hijacking your thread for a few moments. I really like the B-1, and look forward to seeing what you can accomplish with your model. If I am able to get a new slide scanner soon, I will post the photos I took during my visit to the B-1 CTF, maybe some of them will be useful to you.

Aloha and mahalo,

Scott W.

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Utley, forgive me for saying this, but you so don't know what you are talking about. The Wings Over the Rockies B-1A is the #3 B-1A. It actually had more flying hours (829.4 hours in 138 sorties) than the other three B-1As when it was retired to Lowry AFB (not Buckley ANGB) for use as a ground trainer at the technical training center that was there before Lowry closed.

The dorsal fairing we've mentioned was a temporary installation on B-1As #3 and #4, for a deceptive jamming system called Crosseye. Both airplanes were originally delivered without it, and were originally painted overall white as were the other two B-1As. #3 and #4 were repainted in the tan, brown and green and had the Crosseye system installed for a series of Bomber Penetration Evaluation test flights that took place starting in late 1977, starting shortly after Carter had killed the original B-1 program in June that year. The BPE lasted through April 1981 after which the B-1As were stored at Edwards. I was fortunate to be on a tour of Edwards in early 1982 and saw B-1A numbers 2, 3, and 4 inside the B-1 Combined Test Force hangar, and the #1 B-1A in the main maintenance hangar toward the south end of the flightline. In late summer 1982 the #4 aircraft was brought out of storage and flown a few times locally at Edwards before flying to England to be displayed at Farnborough in September, 1982.

When Reagan revived the B-1 program as the B-1B, B-1As #2 and #4 were modified for the B-1B flight test program. The Crosseye system was removed from #4 (and I presume from #3 at the same time as well) during those modifications, and both aircraft were painted in the same dark gray and green camouflage that the B-1Bs were originally delivered in.

No B-1As were ever used operationally. After they were withdrawn from flight test, #1 was disassembled and taken to Rome Air Development Center in Rome, New York for antenna and radar signature testing. #2 crashed as discussed in my previous post. #3 was taken to Lowry for use as a weapons load trainer, and given to the Wings over the Rockies Museum established on the site after Lowry AFB closed. #4 was given to the Air Force Museum in Dayton where it was repainted in the original white scheme and displayed for years. It was later disassembled and trucked to Omaha where it was reassembled and went on display at the SAC Museum.

The first three B-1As had more pointed rear fuselage and stabilator fairings, while B-1A #4 had more the blunt appearance of the B-1B in those areas. All four B-1As had identical intakes, though the variable ramps were not made operational on ships 1,3, and 4, or so I have read. #4 had ejection seats, while 1, 2 and 3 had the capsule ejection system. With the capsule, there were no hatches on top of the cockpit that could be opened.

Utley, I am not interested in getting into urination contest with you, but you keep putting inaccurate information in your posts which you write as though you have authoritative knowledge of the B-1A. You obviously don't, so please do a modicum of research before you post.

Jeski, my apologies for hijacking your thread for a few moments. I really like the B-1, and look forward to seeing what you can accomplish with your model. If I am able to get a new slide scanner soon, I will post the photos I took during my visit to the B-1 CTF, maybe some of them will be useful to you.

Aloha and mahalo,

Scott W.

This information was what was presented to me by one of the museum operators the last time I was there. Whether or not it was true is news to me; I was told that it was in fact an unused article used exclusively for training only. Who am I to correct someone who works at the museum? You seem to want that urination contest. Im not going to debate you on it. Im not going to argue with you because you are obviously an expert, but as an expert you should convey that information in a more professional manner, not in the manner which you just presented. Thanks. Edited by utley
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There is plenty of widely available documentation out there that would prove your museum source as mis-informed.

And? Thats a poor excuse to be disrespectful.

Edited by utley
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