305swag Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Anyone know the name of the French special ops troops? Do they have one? Prayers going out to France! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 One of the attacks happened in the street where my sister lives, thankfully she's OK. The January attacks on Charlie Hebdo happened in the street where one of my ex girlfriend lives. :wacko: :unsure: Screw these dimwitted extremists. The Police has an elite unite called the RAID and the Gendarmerie (which is part of the Army) has the GIGN. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
streetstream Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Anyone know the name of the French special ops troops? Do they have one? Prayers going out to France! The GIGN is the anti-terrorist force of the national police. They succesfully ended the hijack of an Air France A300 in 1994. There are talks of 40 people killed. Edited November 13, 2015 by streetstream Quote Link to post Share on other sites
305swag Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Awful attack! Time to wake the F up folks! Thanks guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jfmajor60 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Listening to different news outlets here in the US and more than a few aresaying 'we don't know if its terror related'. REALLY? Thoughts and prayers for the French people!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 To the people of France: You have our support, we have your backs. If you need us, we'll be there. Just survive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheFlyingDutchman Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) 60 deaths already and we still have the 100 people held hostage in a theater. Terrible and very frightening. Edited November 13, 2015 by TheFlyingDutchman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FM-Whip Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 One of the attacks happened in the street where my sister lives, thankfully she's OK. The January attacks on Charlie Hebdo happened in the street where one of my ex girlfriend lives. :wacko:/>/> :unsure:/>/> Screw these dimwitted extremists. The Police has an elite unite called the RAID and the Gendarmerie (which is part of the Army) has the GIGN. The last time I was in France the Gendarmerie Nationale was part of the French armed forces under the Ministry of Defence but was NOT part of the army. Actual Gendarmerie operations within metropolitan France are run under the Ministry of the Interior. John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 The last time I was in France the Gendarmerie Nationale was part of the French armed forces under the Ministry of Defence but was NOT part of the army. Actual Gendarmerie operations within metropolitan France are run under the Ministry of the Interior. John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) You are splitting hair but you are somewhat correct. The Gendarmes fell under the supervision of the Interior Ministry 5 or 6 years ago but they still have a military status. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 From here on out leave your silence and condolences in the other thread. Discussion is here: A periscope (streaming bootleg) video of the concert that DOES NOT show the attacks (as you can see it wasn't heavy metal, just a smooth and calm rock band I've listened to for years: An account from the concert: http://upvoted.com/2015/11/13/breaking-shooting-and-explosion-in-paris/ Well, I’ve seen two terrorists from my point of view with ak-47s Kalishnakovs entering the concert room and firing randomly to the crowd. People yelled, screamed and everybody lying on the floor. And it lasted for ten minutes, ten minutes, ten horrific minutes where everybody was on the floor covering their head and we heard so many gunshots. And the terrorists were very calm, very determined and they reloaded three or four times their weapons. And they didn’t shout anything. They didn’t say anything.They were in masks and wearing black clothes and they were shooting at people on the floor, executing them. And I was luckily at the top of the stage, in front of the stage, so people started to try to escape to walk on people on the floor and try to find an exit. And I found an exit when the terrorists reloaded their guns in the meantime, and I climbed on the stage and we found an exit. And when I went on the street, I seen 20 to 25 bodies lying on the floor and people were very badly injured, gunshot wounds. And I took a small girl, a teenager, she was bleeding very badly, and I run. I ran with her for like 200 meters and I found a cab, a taxi and I let her in and I said to the cab driver, go to the hospital and I have some friends right now who are still inside the Bataclan who are hiding because they are not sure if there are still terrorists in there, and they are hiding in some kind of room in the dark and they text me, and they are very afraid, of course, and they are waiting for the police to intervene, but it’s been over two hours now and this is terrible. What happened was terrible. I mean, honestly, 15 minutes, ten minutes of gunshots firing randomly in a small concert room. I mean, it’s not a huge concert room. It’s a small one. 2,000 people were there maximum and it was — it was horrible. Pearce: They were not wearing mask. They were unmasked. I’ve seen the face of one guy, one terrorist. He was very young. He was like 20 years old, 25 maximum. He wasn’t wearing a beard or something. Like a random guy holding a gun, that’s all. There were not masks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I can't believe people are surprised by this anymore. World leaders are "shocked" according to report yet world followers are surprised at their surprise. We knew who did this the second it was reported. How many times have we seen this play out now? I guess they have to act shocked. I was appalled but not surprised. This is what they do and everytime after we convince ourselves it's just a few bad apples and this was totally random. Surely the large swaths of military aged males that are flooding into europe are being carefully screened too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7t_GWXmgFk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) I can't believe people are surprised by this anymore. World leaders are "shocked" according to report yet world followers are surprised at their surprise. We knew who did this the second it was reported. How many times have we seen this play out now? I guess they have to act shocked. I was appalled but not surprised. This is what they do and everytime after we convince ourselves it's just a few bad apples and this was totally random. Surely the large swaths of military aged males that are flooding into europe are being carefully screened too It's a sect of militant Wahhabis, themselves a minority of Wahhabis, themselves an extreme minority of Sunnis. For them, it's a war of extermination -- if they eject or destroy the West, they win; if they die trying, they go to heaven. They strike democracies because they understand the bottom-up pressure voters can make on their governments. In many cases, they have legitimate grievances such as a history of exploitative relationships with imperial powers, but where most find ways to adapt and move on, the Wahhabis prey on the most ignorant and impoverished to deliver these attacks. They literally draw from pools of people who have nothing to lose, the planners never attack. There's no saving a militant Wahhabist, there are none worth saving. But they aren't like most of the 1.6 billion Muslims, because if they were then we probably wouldn't be here today. We must fight and we must also reexamine our positions on some things. We must at least become aware. Edited November 14, 2015 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) We must at least become aware. "Awareness" is not the issue. Action is. The word aware has become a sick joke. The idea thay if you are cognizant of something you are somehow involved or working toward the change. Was the west not aware of violent radical islamic terrorists before yesterday? Is that why we were "shocked"? Aware. What a frauduent thing. I joined the Marines on Sept 12. First to fight. It wasnt being aware of September 11th that was going to change anything. I really hope french people are awaring themselves of how to get into the French military, and awaring their politicians that action needs to be taken. Not pretty speeches and nice Facebook pictures I'm really happy that we can all agree on something so basic and thay someone must do something, but at one point people have to decide to volunteer to be someone and do the thing. Curious to see if canada is still going to pull out now. I also understand that it's not every muslim. I understand that it's a very small minority, however I also understand and others should too, that there are many supporters who are not trigger pullers or door kickers but agree with radical islam. And that is Th3 elephant in the room. It's really easy to say "oh its just a tiny minority" but sorry there is more to it than that and there is an obvious clash of values that the west desperately tries to skirt and hopes will go away of they ignore it (trust me we are aware of it) It's just much easier to put a silly little flag over your selfie to show you are paying attention on Facebook, rather than take action or ask harsh questions. We have been well conditioned in this way. This Orwellian manner in which we say all the things we are supposed to say, be it "pray for paris" or "Boston strong" or whatever and in the next breath using phrases like "religion of peace" and "small minority" etc etc. I just hope none of my friends or loved ones get religioned of peaced It also comes back to one of my favorite quotes, you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you. Edited November 14, 2015 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 BIG +1 TT ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 We see eye to eye, we are focused slightly differently. The awareness I spoke of isn't that it happens, it's that terrorism is mostly focused on affecting democratic processes. I'm not going to attempt to be too specific here, but the public needs to understand that suicide terrorism is a mechanism of coercing results through democracies. This terrorist approach doesn't work nearly as well in authoritarian or, the more extreme examples of, totalitarian governments. War is like any other fight -- you have to be willing to participate if you are selected, or you lose by default. Everyone who's fought for anything knows this. The solution to Wahhabi terror isn't completely military, though it is largely military at first. Look into the conditions of places where terrorists recruit, their grievances will be obvious. Today, we are all French. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) We see eye to eye, we are focused slightly differently. The awareness I spoke of isn't that it happens, it's that terrorism is mostly focused on affecting democratic processes. I'm not going to attempt to be too specific here, but the public needs to understand that suicide terrorism is a mechanism of coercing results through democracies. This terrorist approach doesn't work nearly as well in authoritarian or, the more extreme examples of, totalitarian governments. War is like any other fight -- you have to be willing to participate if you are selected, or you lose by default. Everyone who's fought for anything knows this. The solution to Wahhabi terror isn't completely military, though it is largely military at first. Look into the conditions of places where terrorists recruit, their grievances will be obvious. Today, we are all French. You have a more realistic outlook than many folks. So the problem is Wahhabism? Anyone curious why, since this sect has been around for a few hundred years, it's only begun to actively fight the west through terrorist violence since the mid 90's? And if it is the problem, how do you fight a concept (that apparently has growing world-wide appeal)? I would argue that no one has a real answer. I would also suggest that it's not a problem that can solved exclusively through military force. We are merrily bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria and Iraq and yet they can apparently strike at will in the heart of a major western capital. As much as some uninformed extremist will want to build walls and deport the recent wave of refuges, there is a very good chance that the scum who did this have lived in Europe for most/all of their lives. Pure speculation on my part but if you look at who was behind the other attacks in Paris, Madrid and London, it seems like it could be valid. If the enemy is within, how do you solve the problem militarily? Unless we are up for some good old ethnic cleansing (ie - forced deportation or incarceration of the millions of Muslim citizens in these countries) and reverting to a true police state with in-depth surveillance of it's population / military forces deployed on every street, it's way to late to build walls. It seems like this is more of a war for hearts and minds and right now, the west is losing badly. Need to figure out why westernized kids are walking away from the society that they grew up in and taking arms against it. It's a new kind of war, fought as much on social media and in mosques as it is in Syria or Iraq. Right now it looks like we are completely unprepared for it and that is pretty damned concerning because it's only a matter of time before the next attack occurs and shortly afterwards, the next. So yeah, we do need to elevate our level of awareness just a bit. Edited November 15, 2015 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) We see eye to eye, we are focused slightly differently. The awareness I spoke of isn't that it happens, it's that terrorism is mostly focused on affecting democratic processes. I'm not going to attempt to be too specific here, but the public needs to understand that suicide terrorism is a mechanism of coercing results through democracies. This terrorist approach doesn't work nearly as well in authoritarian or, the more extreme examples of, totalitarian governments. The issue with western governments especially with Europe is that they DONT need to commit terrorist atrocities to put pressure on Western Democracies. More on that later. Look into the conditions of places where terrorists recruit, their grievances will be obvious. this is the stereotype that all terrorists are poor. UBL was Saudi Royalty. and as John pointed out a lot of these guys come from western democracies, and in welfare craddle to the grave entitlement states like those in Europe. Most terrorists are middle class. Today, we are all French. No thanks bro I'm sweet. You have a more realistic outlook than many folks. So the problem is Wahhabism? Anyone curious why, since this sect has been around for a few hundred years, it's only begun to actively fight the west through terrorist violence since the mid 90's? And if it is the problem, how do you fight a concept (that apparently has growing world-wide appeal)? I would argue that no one has a real answer. All these problems at the time look unsolvable, and then they get solved an its "obvious" to everyone. The USSR will never fall, the Mob is undefeatable, IRA will go on forever, centuries of Militarism in europe can never be stopped, and the church will always run things. etc etc etc. I am amazed at how many people I know personally who tell you all about MLK and what an amazing man he was, and in the next breath will say they won't fight a speeding ticket "because you can't beat city hall" LOL ok. People say you can't change the world, and that is completely false. The world is changing. Its always changing. the only question is how and whom is changing it. I would also suggest that it's not a problem that can solved exclusively through military force. We are merrily bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria and Iraq and yet they can apparently strike at will in the heart of a major western capital. Shockingly, it turns out Airpower is really crappy at COIN and cultural change. Yes even A-10s. we figured out all the way back in 2005 we couldn't kill our way out of this. But hey, maybe this time will be different. As much as some uninformed extremist will want to build walls and deport the recent wave of refuges, there is a very good chance that the scum who did this have lived in Europe for most/all of their lives. Pure speculation on my part but if you look at who was behind the other attacks in Paris, Madrid and London, it seems like it could be valid. well that is the issue. If the enemy is within, how do you solve the problem militarily? Unless we are up for some good old ethnic cleansing (ie - forced deportation or incarceration of the millions of Muslim citizens in these countries) They already tried that in Europe in the 90s with Muslims and it didn't work. a true police state with in-depth surveillance of it's population / military forces deployed on every street, it's way to late to build walls. there is already lots of censorship and plenty of surveillance. It seems like this is more of a war for hearts and minds and right now, the west is losing badly. Need to figure out why westernized kids are walking away from the society that they grew up in and taking arms against it. It's a new kind of war, fought as much on social media and in mosques as it is in Syria or Iraq. Right now it looks like we are completely unprepared for it and that is pretty damned concerning because it's only a matter of time before the next attack occurs and shortly afterwards, the next. The Issue and this is something I posted 10 months ago with charlie hebdo attack, is people refusing to assimilate, and the government given them a pass under the guise of "multiculturalism" the way it used to work was you left your crappy country to go to the new one and you embraced that. because you didn't want the new country to be like the old-- you left for a reason. but people are trying to bring the old to France. simply put. How do you take a very liberal, open, peaceful country and accept closed, fundamentalist, violent people and have everyone get along? you can't. You aren't going to open a Gay Disco next to a Sharia Mosque and expect the Disco to last long. How do you have a multicultural society when one cultural decides their laws are superior to the laws of the land? And in turn the state which makes the laws of the land turns a blind eye?? Before we accuse TT of being paranoid Germany was censoring facebook posts about the Refugee crises. Austria asked the HIGHLY Logical question of "how are we going to take on all these immigrants?" and was accused of being "racist" countless others have been forced into hiding for writing about Muslims, and there are neigborhoods women don't go into uncovered-- not because of crime, but religion. Cultural friction is a real thing. Rape has skyrocketed in Sweden. you can't post a picture of the prophet--not because of terrorists, but because of governments and others that will edit it. No shots need be fired, they already won. And Western Democracies rather than saying "our laws trump your laws, assimilate or leave" they have basically allowed all this to continue while cheering it as a huge advancement of western culture. Yes, thats been my experience with rape, honor kilings and censorship too. Its a real score for the good guys. I could go on and on, and others have said it so much better than I have in the past: Simply put they need to westernize. and the west needs to quit changing the definitions of things for one particular religion. so amazingly enough, the cure is free speech. and what we see continually is that free speech being limited, (self censorship actually increased following the Hebdo attack) and when you can't complain to each other over the internet, people find other ways to let their opinions be felt. And no one is safe from being made fun of, cartooned, lampooned, satirized, etc. but then there is an * for one particular group... I don't understand this. Maybe the issue is education. A certain religion in the world doesn't understand what a "joke" is, and should they face one, have no judgement or werewhethal to stop themselves from committing a violent act and the west accepts this. this is not unlike a bull seeing a Red cape I guess-- They can't help themselves, but in the next breath we are told these are humans with basic judgement. So on one hand they are grown ups from a religeon of peace that live in the free west, and on the other they are not so please watch what you post!! Or they might kill you! “Too many people in the free world have internalized Islam’s view of them. A couple of years ago, I visited Guantanamo and subsequently wrote that, if I had to summon up Gitmo in a single image, it would be the brand-new copy of the Koran in each cell: To reassure incoming prisoners that the filthy infidels haven’t touched the sacred book with their unclean hands, the Korans are hung from the walls in pristine, sterilized surgical masks. It’s one thing for Muslims to regard infidels as unclean, but it’s hard to see why it’s in the interests of us infidels to string along with it and thereby validate their bigotry. What does that degree of prostration before their prejudices tell them about us? It’s a problem that Muslims think we’re unclean. It’s a far worse problem that we go along with it. “Take this no-name pastor from an obscure church who was threatening to burn the Koran. He didn’t burn any buildings or women and children. He didn’t even burn a book. He hadn’t actually laid a finger on a Koran, and yet the mere suggestion that he might do so prompted the president of the United States to denounce him, and the secretary of state, and the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, various G7 leaders, and golly, even Angelina Jolie. “President Obama has never said a word about honor killings of Muslim women. Secretary Clinton has never said a word about female genital mutilation. General Petraeus has never said a word about the rampant buggery of pre-pubescent boys by Pushtun men in Kandahar. But let an obscure man in Florida so much as raise the possibility that he might disrespect a book – an inanimate object – and the most powerful figures in the Western world feel they have to weigh in. “Aside from all that, this obscure church’s website has been shut down, its insurance policy has been canceled, its mortgage has been called in by its bankers. Why? As Diana West wrote, why was it necessary or even seemly to make this pastor a non-person? Another one of Obama’s famous ‘teaching moments’? In this case teaching us that Islamic law now applies to all? Only a couple of weeks ago, the president, at his most condescendingly ineffectual, presumed to lecture his moronic subjects about the First Amendment rights of Imam Rauf. Where’s the condescending lecture on Pastor Jones’ First Amendment rights? “When someone destroys a Bible, U.S. government officials don’t line up to attack him. President Obama bowed lower than a fawning maitre d’ before the King of Saudi Arabia, a man whose regime destroys Bibles as a matter of state policy, and a man whose depraved religious police forces schoolgirls fleeing from a burning building back into the flames to die because they’d committed the sin of trying to escape without wearing their head scarves. If you show a representation of Mohammed, European commissioners and foreign ministers line up to denounce you. If you show a representation of Jesus Christ immersed in your own urine, you get a government grant for producing a widely admired work of art. Likewise, if you write a play about Jesus having gay sex with Judas Iscariot. “So just to clarify the ground rules, if you insult Christ, the media report the issue as freedom of expression: A healthy society has to have bold, brave, transgressive artists willing to question and challenge our assumptions, etc. But, if it’s Mohammed, the issue is no longer freedom of expression but the need for ‘respect’ and ‘sensitivity’ toward Islam, and all those bold brave transgressive artists don’t have a thing to say about it.” “As I said in America Alone, multiculturalism seems to operate to the same even-handedness as the old Cold War joke in which the American tells the Soviet guy that ‘in my country everyone is free to criticize the President’, and the Soviet guy replies, ‘Same here. In my country everyone is free to criticize your President.’ Under one-way multiculturalism, the Muslim world is free to revere Islam and belittle the west’s inheritance, and, likewise, the western world is free to revere Islam and belittle the west’s inheritance. If one has to choose, on balance Islam’s loathing of other cultures seems psychologically less damaging than western liberals’ loathing of their own. “It is a basic rule of life that if you reward bad behavior, you get more of it. Every time Muslims either commit violence or threaten it, we reward them by capitulating. Indeed, President Obama, Justice Breyer, General Petraeus, and all the rest are now telling Islam, you don’t have to kill anyone, you don’t even have to threaten to kill anyone. We’ll be your enforcers. We’ll demand that the most footling and insignificant of our own citizens submit to the universal jurisdiction of Islam. So Obama and Breyer are now the ‘good cop’ to the crazies’ ‘bad cop’. Ooh, no, you can’t say anything about Islam, because my friend here gets a little excitable, and you really don’t want to get him worked up. The same people who tell us ‘Islam is a religion of peace’ then turn around and tell us you have to be quiet, you have to shut up because otherwise these guys will go bananas and kill a bunch of people.” -- Mark Steyn. So yeah thats where I come out on it. We are already playing along. We are censoring ourselves just fine, all we need is the occasional attack as a reminder and you can watch the clamp tighten. Its a great gig. None of what would help fix this requires police states, or radical new laws, or ethnic cleansing. Its requires basically enforcing the laws you already have (including immigration) and individual rights to speak freely without worrying about government, or fundamentalist killers. So yeah, we do need to elevate our level of awareness just a bit. Ive elevated mine from Muave to awareness alert level Magenta, and you don't want to know what I tweet and Facebook when I hit Awareness level turquoise. No sir. Edited November 15, 2015 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) You have a more realistic outlook than many folks. So the problem is Wahhabism? Anyone curious why, since this sect has been around for a few hundred years, it's only begun to actively fight the west through terrorist violence since the mid 90's? And if it is the problem, how do you fight a concept (that apparently has growing world-wide appeal)? I would argue that no one has a real answer. I would also suggest that it's not a problem that can solved exclusively through military force. We are merrily bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria and Iraq and yet they can apparently strike at will in the heart of a major western capital. As much as some uninformed extremist will want to build walls and deport the recent wave of refuges, there is a very good chance that the scum who did this have lived in Europe for most/all of their lives. Pure speculation on my part but if you look at who was behind the other attacks in Paris, Madrid and London, it seems like it could be valid. If the enemy is within, how do you solve the problem militarily? Unless we are up for some good old ethnic cleansing (ie - forced deportation or incarceration of the millions of Muslim citizens in these countries) and reverting to a true police state with in-depth surveillance of it's population / military forces deployed on every street, it's way to late to build walls. It seems like this is more of a war for hearts and minds and right now, the west is losing badly. Need to figure out why westernized kids are walking away from the society that they grew up in and taking arms against it. It's a new kind of war, fought as much on social media and in mosques as it is in Syria or Iraq. Right now it looks like we are completely unprepared for it and that is pretty damned concerning because it's only a matter of time before the next attack occurs and shortly afterwards, the next. So yeah, we do need to elevate our level of awareness just a bit. There are some glaring issues that have gone unresolved for decades. A look at ongoing UN peacekeeping missions may grant a hint. In fact, looking into the UN's history of failed implementation because of the permanent 5's obstruction may even provide more clarity. Existing alliances, in relation to global politics, exacerbate the conditions for terror. It's important to realize that the tactic of suicide attacks is: 1) an act of extreme desperation, because conventionally fighting more powerful militaries will kill more of their people than suicide missions 2) is a tactic that crosses religious boundaries (Hindus in the Tamil Tigers, Shintos in the Kamikazes, Taoism for the Viet Cong, many more outliers from every other imaginable origin) 3) has varying objectives, but is always meant to leverage power (spoiling elections, coercing a military withdrawal, invoking greater conflict) 4) and is a tactic that is organized by people in power, but carried out by expendable people from the "bottom of the barrel" The short-term solution is to use the world's militaries to act as a stabilizing force and install a new intl peacekeeping mission (hey the Banglis need to get paid too -- you either know what I mean or you don't :D/>). The long-term solution will be strengthening international law and enfranchising groups that, for real or imagined reasons, identify as militarily-occupied. Edited November 15, 2015 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 The short-term solution is to use the world's militaries to act as a stabilizing force and install a new intl peacekeeping mission (hey the Banglis need to get paid too -- you either know what I mean or you don't :D/>/>). The long-term solution will be strengthening international law and enfranchising groups that, for real or imagined reasons, identify as militarily-occupied. Sorry but I'm a bit skeptical about the idea of injecting an "international peacekeeping" force into that insane asylum. The first time they took significant casualties, the coalition would fall apart. Although the thought of just being able to fund a proxy force to keep those cockroaches in check is appealing, it just doesn't seem to be doable. It would require massive US intervention on the ground and quite honestly, I believe that is exactly what they want. Beside, the bad guys currently in Syria / Iraq aren't the true threat. It's the homegrown jihadis that are wracking up the bodycount here in the west. We could turn Syria into glass but that's not going to stop the attacks on domestic "soft" targets. Like any counter-insurgency conflict, we need to prepare ourselves for many years of conflict, with a good percentage of the battles being fought on the streets of our cities. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) <...> Before we accuse TT of being paranoid Germany was censoring facebook posts about the Refugee crises. Austria asked the HIGHLY Logical question of "how are we going to take on all these immigrants?" and was accused of being "racist" countless others have been forced into hiding for writing about Muslims, and there are neigborhoods women don't go into uncovered-- not because of crime, but religion. Cultural friction is a real thing. Rape has skyrocketed in Sweden. you can't post a picture of the prophet--not because of terrorists, but because of governments and others that will edit it. No shots need be fired, they already won. And Western Democracies rather than saying "our laws trump your laws, assimilate or leave" they have basically allowed all this to continue while cheering it as a huge advancement of western culture. Yes, thats been my experience with rape, honor kilings and censorship too. Its a real score for the good guys. <...> Sorry, my friend, but I'd have to accuse you of being paranoid. Can we get some sources for these claims? Because at the moment they look a lot like the fear-mongering stuff the far-right is throwing about and which has little to do with reality. Germany has not censored Facebook with regards to the refugee crisis. You can merrily post all the hate you want ("let the refugees drown in the Med", "all foreigners aboard the bus to Auschwitz", call for arson attacks on refugee shelters, demand that politicians and journalists be hanged, you name it) and neither Facebook nor the state are going to stop you. In very, very few isolated cases (can count them on one hand) people are now facing judicial backlash because instigation to murder is not covered by free speech. Even in Austria you can debate about how to tackle the refugee crisis. But if you call refugees "Menschenmaterial für Europa komplett wertlos und problembehaftet" (human material utterly worthless and problematic to Europe), as one FPÖ politician did, then, yeah, you're a racist. That bit about uncovered women reeks of that idiotic piece Fox ran on Birmingham and which they have since redacted. As for the bit about rape having sky-rocketed in Sweden and the insinuation that it's down to Muslim immigrants (why else would you have mentioned it here?), what's your source for that? And I mean a proper source. Not some cherry-picked stuff like that piece that came up in Norway that claimed "city lost - all rapes in Oslo committed by immigrants" (which is untrue if you look at the statistics properly) or some think-tank report mixing up actual convictions with reported cases. Also, our laws are very much still in place and have not been replaced by Sharia law. An honour killing will be treated as murder just the way it should be, with no special "diminished responsibility" factored in. Oh, but there's one thing. Crime rates in Germany HAVE sky-rocketed since the refugee crisis. Just in 2015, there have been almost 450 attacks on refugee shelters (100 of those arson attacks) and more than 200 cases of assault on refugees. All perpetrated by so-called "concerned citizens" or "migration critics". Edited November 16, 2015 by ChernayaAkula Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 What the hell happened to the No Politics rule? Half the dim witted comments I read in this thread have nothing to do with the events in France, the usual suspects are merely using them to push their moronic agenda. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 What the hell happened to the No Politics rule? Half the dim witted comments I read in this thread have nothing to do with the events in France, the usual suspects are merely using them to push their moronic agenda. I cleaned up the thread a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thommo Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 An interesting video: http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/the-projects-waleed-aly-praised-for-unity-message-in-the-wake-of-paris-attacks-20151116-gl0fz9.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thommo Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 And this is pretty good (don't listen if swearing offends you!) http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2015/nov/16/tv-satirist-john-oliver-responds-to-paris-attacks-with-a-moment-of-premium-cable-profanity Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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