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I can never seem to get approved for membership. I don't understand it.

I've been trying for years. Though, go like them on FB and you quickly will learn they've got lots of issues. They've had their site shut down by their host twice now because of all the crap that they are overloading servers with. It's a freaking mess.

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It's hardly a "mess". It's a non-profit modelling web site, that like many others (including ARC) has some great information and resources for modellers. And also like many others, it's had some issues with spammers which created the problems that led to it being shut down by the web site host. Who had web site passwords and web site control, and the ability to fix it took some sorting out after those actions. I'm not a spokesman - it's just as I understand it. You can post on their Facebook site if you like and voice any registration difficulties you might be having. The registration process (which is crewed by a volunteer - not a full time employee) is designed to try and keep spammers out - no more, no less.

Hitch

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They're very high class and hoighty toighty over there ...

You just may not be up to their standards ...

Sarcasm noted, considering probably well over half the Z5 members are also members here..... :monkeydance:

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It's hardly a "mess". It's a non-profit modelling web site, that like many others (including ARC) has some great information and resources for modellers. And also like many others, it's had some issues with spammers which created the problems that led to it being shut down by the web site host. Who had web site passwords and web site control, and the ability to fix it took some sorting out after those actions. I'm not a spokesman - it's just as I understand it. You can post on their Facebook site if you like and voice any registration difficulties you might be having. The registration process (which is crewed by a volunteer - not a full time employee) is designed to try and keep spammers out - no more, no less.

Hitch

No. It's a mess. When you have no idea who has passwords and control of the site, it's a mess. When every other modeling forum on the internet isn't getting shut down by their host because of spammers and you have twice, it's a mess. The registration process which is overly complicated, is a mess. No other forum has to go to such extremes...where are all the spammers here or any of the other major forums? Yes, it's a mess.

The content is superb. The knowledge there is beyond reproach. A lot of members are great people, and helpful. But the administration of the site...the changing ownership...the confusion by those in charge of what to do and how to do to keep it running...mess. It's unfortunate because otherwise I'd spend a lot more time there...you know...if I could get approved. I'm not going out of my way to beg for validation...it's not worth it to me. Too many hurdles.

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Well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Being that I am a member of both ARC and Z5, I can see where people were frustrated when the site continuously would go down. I also see where the confusion laid with the "ownership" of the site. I ask you this, you never bought something and had to argue with customer service for an hour or two, just to find out that customer service screwed up again ? If not, you're a lucky man.But hopefully everything is in order and no other problems service. Granted, its weird that you have had issues registering an account @ Z5, yet people have told you a way to fix it but you refuse. To each his own.

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Granted, its weird that you have had issues registering an account @ Z5, yet people have told you a way to fix it but you refuse.

Actually, that is not completely accurate. When I first tried to register a year ago, I followed all of the rules and put info in my profile just as asked... never was validated, and after awhile I was banned completely for whatever reason, having never actually even made a post.

But, in a sign of a possibly improving situation there, I did recently try again to register, with a different name this time, and was approved within a day. So maybe these issues of the past have truly been resolved.

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Remember Z5 is run by volunteers, it is not a business venture with a dedicated staff like ARC. When someone is dedicated to making sure a site runs smoothly so sponsors continue to advertise then administration is a priority.

(this is not a criticism of either site, just an observation)

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Never had a single problem with Z5 forums but shame their server was down a couple of time recently. A couple of years ago, guy from Afterburner decals was the owner of Z5 and everything seemed to run smoothly. Not sure who's the owner now but they do have some issues...

Alek

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I ask you this, you never bought something and had to argue with customer service for an hour or two, just to find out that customer service screwed up again ? If not, you're a lucky man.But hopefully everything is in order and no other problems service. Granted, its weird that you have had issues registering an account @ Z5, yet people have told you a way to fix it but you refuse. To each his own.

Except in this case it's like you have an issue with Home Depot and are told to go to Sears to get it resolved.

He shouldn't have to post on FB or email the admin outside of normal channels to get the registration problem fixed, he did what he was supposed to in order to prove he wasn't a bot or spammer, the onus is on Zone 5 to follow their process and grant him membership.

If their crashes and changes of ownership are causing part of the registration problem then they should shut off new members till they have the problem fixed, otherwise the owners are making things harder on themselves and it's causing more work and frustration from all involved than there needs to be.

Ken

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I've been a Z5 member since 2010. Really like the site. Except for recent issues I've never had any log in problems. The site I have registering issues with is Britmodeler.

Edited by jpk
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Except in this case it's like you have an issue with Home Depot and are told to go to Sears to get it resolved.

He shouldn't have to post on FB or email the admin outside of normal channels to get the registration problem fixed, he did what he was supposed to in order to prove he wasn't a bot or spammer, the onus is on Zone 5 to follow their process and grant him membership.

If their crashes and changes of ownership are causing part of the registration problem then they should shut off new members till they have the problem fixed, otherwise the owners are making things harder on themselves and it's causing more work and frustration from all involved than there needs to be.

Ken

Bingo!

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Well, as the guy responsible for doing the registration process since it started, there's a couple of things I'd like to address.

Firstly, this message appears at the top of every page on the site if you are not logged in / registered;

"AWAITING MEMBERSHIP ACTIVATION OR ACCIDENTALLY BANNED?-----PLEASE READ-----------

G'day All,----- Sorry for putting this in here but I thought it was the most likely place for most people to see it, and it seems that some may still not be reading the "sticky notes" posted at the top of the major forums.-----

If you are waiting to have you membership at Zone Five activated or if you have found your account has been banned accidentally;-----

We have a problem with large numbers of spammers trying to access the site using bogus registrations, and we are taking measures to try and ensure that only valid members are allowed access.-----

In order to help us with this, it would be greatly appreciated if you could include some relevant information, of your own choice, in the personal details section of your profile. This will help us confirm and activate your membership as soon as possible.-----You can delete it as soon as we have activated your membership if you have any privacy concerns. We are only interested in trying to differentiate legitimate members from possible spammers/ bogus accounts. We're not asking for anything you are not comfortable to provide, or anything particularly sensitive. There must be something simple that you can add that would just illustrate that you are a genuine member and not a spammer? We can't say what to add because the spammers could just read this and find another way through. It's not so much about what you add or about "vetting" members (We probably spend less than a second looking at it), but purely an effort to keep out unwanted spammers. Nothing else.-----

Without this information, there is a VERY good chance your account will not be approved.

This request has been mentioned in the main forums as well. http://www.zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=6934 -----

And you can see some of the reasons why we are taking these measures in this thread. http://www.zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=6864 -----

If, after a certain time, you still haven't added any info, your account may be deleted as a suspected spammer.-----

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and delays but we hope that it helps make for a better time for those who use the forums legitimately.-----

Thank you very much for your help in this matter.-----

If you are unsure of how to add the information or wish to contact me directly about this, please use Zone5email(at)gmail(dot)com -----

Cheers, Motty."

The ONLY reason that I have EVER banned or deleted anyone is because, as best I could tell, they were spammers. Even then, I never immediately deleted them, but kept them on as "banned" so that, if they were in fact genuine, they could eventually get in touch and I could re-activate their account. If there were any that I wasn't quite sure about, I would set them aside and email the person asking for a little more info. If I didn't get a reply then they just stayed in limbo. Keeping such a large number of accounts in the database is apparently one of the things which may have contributed to the site issues the first time.

For some reason, it seems that the forum software would not respond to some email addresses to give the email validation step for registration. This meant that some people stayed in the "awaiting email validation" category and didn't get progressed to the "awaiting moderation" step, which is the category I monitored. Again, the sheer number of bogus accounts backed up in the former category seems to have contributed to the first round of site outages (I wasn't aware of the numbers or that they could have that effect on the forum).

I don't think people appreciate the sheer volume of bogus accounts we have to deal with. Since the forums started, the average registration rate has been between one to two thousand new accounts per week. 99.9% of which are bogus. The forum software didn't have the facility for human validation or whatever it's called ("type the letters you see" sort of thing) and I had no control over that. It's my personal belief (gut feeling) that, given the circumstances which led to the creation of the forums in the first place, some kind soul seems to have submitted the site to some form of spammer's database or site as a majority of the accounts seem to be automatic or "bot" registrations.

If you entered information for me as I requested, and you still got banned or deleted then the only things that would have led to that are; simple, one or two word entries that didn't stand out amongst the stuff that the spammers put in, as I simply scrolled through all the entries trying to look for something "different". That's the only reason I asked for something in those fields. Nothing to do with "vetting" anyone, just something to make the entry stand out amongst the crap and show that you were a real modeller. The other thing which may have happened is that you never received the validation email to get transferred into the "awaiting moderation" category which is the one I monitored. with the vast number of accounts to deal with, I sometimes blanket banned the "awaiting email" category to clear it and, after several months to a year or more, I sometimes then deleted those accounts, to try an clear some of the bogus accounts. My assumption was that, if there were genuine accounts in there then the people concerned would actually read that big burst that I had placed at the top of every page (if you weren't logged in) and see the info I had put in there, just for them, and get in touch so that I could fix their accounts (It seems I am frequently mistaken in this assumption).

If you sent emails but never received a reply, unless it has been within the past six weeks or so when I have been overseas and had a few things on my plate, then you used the wrong email. I admit that have been slow to respond at times but I have never just ignored an email. Again, that big burst at the top of every page has my email address in it for people with registration problems to get in touch, if that's not the email address you used then I have never received it.

Although I have some admin access to the forums, I have no access to the actual software so could not change or edit anything about the process or software itself. Therefore the only thing I felt I could do was add that big burst at the top of every page (and in several pinned posts on the forum pages themselves) to let anyone who visited know what the issues were and how to go about getting in touch if they needed to. If people aren't going to read the info which is put there to help, then what else can I do?

The site isn't "owned" by anyone like normal sites and any funding has had to come out of individual people's pockets and, until quite recently, this has meant that there has been no way of funding software updates to get a better process. To be honest, I'm just as much in the dark as the rest of you with regards to the finer points of the site ownership and goings on with the most recent outages. I have only seen the same as the rest of you on FB etc. but I believe the latest outage may have been caused by a spammer actually gaining access to the site and overloading the software with spam traffic which led to the providers locking down our site.

Is it efficient? No. Is it ideal? No. Is it "professional"? No, but it's not meant to be either. It's just an alternative modelling forum without the rules or moderation of other sites. Have I been great at it? No, probably not. Is it about keeping genuine people out for any reason? Absolutely not.

So, my apologies to those of you who have had issues gaining access to the forums. I have tried to make the information available for anyone wishing to register, or has had any problems with the process (again, that big post at the top of every page if you're not registered / logged in, with my email address in it) and I have tried to do the best I could with the limited range of options available to me. But, whatever some may want to assume, it has had NOTHING to do with trying to keep any genuine person out for any reason whatsoever.

Cheers,

Motty.

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So, my apologies to those of you who have had issues gaining access to the forums. I have tried to make the information available for anyone wishing to register, or has had any problems with the process (again, that big post at the top of every page if you're not registered / logged in, with my email address in it) and I have tried to do the best I could with the limited range of options available to me. But, whatever some may want to assume, it has had NOTHING to do with trying to keep any genuine person out for any reason whatsoever.

Cheers,

Motty.

VERY well written and it explains a lot.

Thank you,

Chuck

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A lot has changed in the past couple of weeks. We've made some modifications to the software /application process to eliminate some of the issues we were having.

When you were eliminating upwards of 1000 spam accounts a day, inevitably some legitimate requests are gonna get tossed by accident. We've arranged it so we don't have to do that any more.

I'm the steward of the site (the closest thing to an owner we have) and we've got some good IT support on staff now.

I can't say much for the past of the site, I've been an administrator since day one, but I've taken responsibility for the site and tried to get some talent to help out in keeping the place up to code. I've *never* owned a site before, and I cannot guarantee that something won't happen again in the future, but since I've claimed responsibility I CAN guarantee it will be addressed quickly and professionally.

If you apply now and you're still having issues, email me at jhousdan *at* hotmail.com and I'll address them ASAP.

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Never had a single problem with Z5 forums but shame their server was down a couple of time recently. A couple of years ago, guy from Afterburner decals was the owner of Z5 and everything seemed to run smoothly. Not sure who's the owner now but they do have some issues...

Alek

Scott was never the owner of Z5.

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