Jinxter13 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 We all have our opinions about whether or not the warthog is pretty, or worth the effort to keep it in the inventory; no matter who likes or dislikes it the bean counters, evaluators, etc should look at this and then decide where the advantage lies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 no matter who likes or dislikes it the bean counters, evaluators, etc should look at this and then decide where the advantage lies A-10 vrs rather archaic, 70's generation SAM. SAM wins. A-10 doesn't complete mission, barely makes it home. I'm thinking advantage archaic, 70's generation SAM. What were you thinking? Good to have another hog thread though. It's been a while. Goin' for the popcorn, be back in a few. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Don't think a state of the art F-35 would've got back even with a 70's SAM. Afoxbat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Don't think a state of the art F-35 would've got back even with a 70's SAM. Afoxbat But maybe, just maybe, that SAM would not have hit said F-35. Again, maybe I'm missing something because I only have a grunt's background. But as a grunt, my first priority was not to get hit by a bullet. Much better than trying to survive being shot. Would this not apply also to AF jets? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 But maybe, just maybe, that SAM would not have hit said F-35. Not to belittle the F-35, if it performs as advertised, which is not always the case, being hit would be purely accidental, however as you said, best not get hit rather than survive a hit; however it's good to know that if you get [hit] you have a chance of surviving. I'm not stumping for the A-10 to become another B-52 (which is an aeronautical design marvel), but it would be a waste to not use a purposely designed airframe to do what it does better than any other you have at present. She may not be the debutante of the ball, but man she can still dance...even those who want to mothball the ol' girl, will admit that. I'm probably swimming upstream, as retiring the A-10 will open up funds for other programs which will be around for future needs, but then I also remember how the gun was left off the first Phantoms, because it was thought to be obsolete ;) . Alas nothing in this thread or any other concerning the A-10 is going to have any bearing on it's final disposition, any opinions related here are nothing more than MMQB (Monday Morning Quarterbacking), not even qualifying as BSD (Back Seat Driving). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Cartwright Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The A-10 is not unique in sustaining damage and making it back, so I'm not sure that's the greatest argument for keeping it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) The A-10 is not unique in sustaining damage and making it back, so I'm not sure that's the greatest argument for keeping it. There were stories of P-40s doing this exact thing with Japanese planes in WWII, it doesn't mean they were as survivable as A-10s are. Not to mention obvious doubts about whether or not an F-15 could replicate that in combat conditions, which the A-10 has. If F-35s attempt the same low-level support that A-10s deliver today, then they would probably be more vulnerable to ground fire than the A-10s are, including everything from manually aimed devices to shoulder launches SAMS. I would rather risk losing an A-10 than compromising the very device that's supposed to give us a long lasting edge for other types of ground attack. An A-10 falling into enemy hands isn't as big a loss as an F-35, even though the potential of losing the said A-10 is lower, hit for hit. Edited December 22, 2015 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Not to belittle the F-35, if it performs as advertised, which is not always the case, being hit would be purely accidental, however as you said, best not get hit rather than survive a hit; however it's good to know that if you get [hit] you have a chance of surviving. I'm not stumping for the A-10 to become another B-52 (which is an aeronautical design marvel), but it would be a waste to not use a purposely designed airframe to do what it does better than any other you have at present. She may not be the debutante of the ball, but man she can still dance...even those who want to mothball the ol' girl, will admit that. I'm probably swimming upstream, as retiring the A-10 will open up funds for other programs which will be around for future needs, but then I also remember how the gun was left off the first Phantoms, because it was thought to be obsolete ;) . Alas nothing in this thread or any other concerning the A-10 is going to have any bearing on it's final disposition, any opinions related here are nothing more than MMQB (Monday Morning Quarterbacking), not even qualifying as BSD (Back Seat Driving). You're not swimming upstream at all. This exact position is held by many, many folks including people who have directed them, been saved by them, the general public and law makers. The A-10 is currently the best tool in the box for this mission and the Air Force currently has no plans to fulfill every part of the A-10's mission with the F-35, or anything else. Many things seemingly come close based on the expectation that conflict will continue to be extremely one-sided, but beyond that immediate belief nothing comes close. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Benner Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 We all have our opinions about whether or not the warthog is pretty, or worth the effort to keep it in the inventory; no matter who likes or dislikes it the bean counters, evaluators, etc should look at this and then decide where the advantage lies I normally wouldn't post in such a topic, but since the vid is about Desert Storm .. sure, the A-10 performed very well, but where used appropriately. On Feb 15th, when tasked to go deeper against the Republican Guard, the A-10s where hit hard with 2 shot down and 1 seriously damaged in one day. After that day, they where pulled back, and Wing leadership imposed restrictions such as a minimum altitude (no gun use), until the ground war started. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) You're not swimming upstream at all. This exact position is held by many, many folks including people who have directed them, been saved by them, the general public and law makers... And then there are those (many...many...some who are regular contributors to ARC) who have spent the vast majority of their adult lives actually flying fighters and employing and devising tactics for CAS and fighter operations who have a completely different opinion then yours. But you already know that as this has been beaten to death here on ARC the last few months. Perhaps "Foxtrotalpha" can come out of retirement and chime in again... ;) EDIT: Spelling. Edited December 22, 2015 by Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) And then there are those (many...many...some who are regular contributors to ARC) who have spent the vast majority of their adult lives actually flying fighters and employing and devising tactics for CAS and fighter operations who have a completely different opinion then yours. But you already know that as this has been beaten to death here on ARC the last few months. Perhaps "Foxtrotalpha" can come out of retirement and chime in again... ;)/>/> EDIT: Spelling. I would have liked to see how that played out but final exams were kind of happening.... Was that you? I never got who's alter-ego that is, yet one would assume the mods would want to find out since setting up multiple accounts to do what that user did should have triggered multiple account suspensions. The 'evidence' is probably still sitting in the private message boxes. Don, you need to put it into perspective: those 'contributors' on ARC may be a very vocal group here on the board but their sentiment rarely spreads beyond post boards. There may be a healthy piece of the public that equates the merit of their argument with their meager measure of popular support they hold. Prohibited Conduct Violation of these rules is grounds for modification of posting privileges. Modification of posting privileges can consist of moderator restriction, temporary suspension, extended suspensions, or outright banning: Multiple accounts created for the express desire to cause ill will, slander or hurt is not allowed and will result in deletion of said multiple account and a suspension of the main account. If you had a prior account and are experiencing any kind of difficulty, please contact any member of the admin staff, and we'll do our best to sort it our for you. Edited December 22, 2015 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Litvyak Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 But maybe, just maybe, that SAM would not have hit said F-35. That's what everyone said about the F-117 prior to March 27 1999... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 That's what everyone said about the F-117 prior to March 27 1999... +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Honestly you and your other ARC username "Foxtrotalpha" pretty much...well...exhausted...this topic how many times over? I am sure others will engage you in further debate but I won't. I like to know which ARC username I am truly conversing with ;). That and considering everything already written in previous threads here have already covered this ground times over, there really is nothing new to add. But you...and however many ARC personalities you have...have yourselves a good night and a happy holiday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Honestly you and your other ARC username "Foxtrotalpha" pretty much...well...exhausted...this topic how many times over? I am sure others will engage you in further debate but I won't. I like to know which ARC username I am truly conversing with ;)/>. That and considering everything already written in previous threads here have already covered this ground times over, there really is nothing new to add. But you...and however many ARC personalities you have...have yourselves a good night and a happy holiday. :cheers:/>/> The answer is that I have only ever had one account here and mods can verify this through IP investigation. I encourage them to sniff accounts related FoxtrotAlpha's postings and review the private message history of those who responded to FA's thread. If you really want to discredit me, there are better ways than creating a straw man account to build up and knock down. For one, you could have tried argument. Adding to this pointless conundrum is you offering to bring this duplicate account out again in post 11 http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=289536&st=0&p=2767514entry2767514 Perhaps "Foxtrotalpha" can come out of retirement and chime in again... ;)/> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Touchy on the subject though aren't we. Curious that <_< . Again...have a good one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Alas nothing in this thread or any other concerning the A-10 is going to have any bearing on it's final disposition, any opinions related here are nothing more than MMQB (Monday Morning Quarterbacking), not even qualifying as BSD (Back Seat Driving). You titled your thread "Oh General..." so your claim that you're not back seat driving is false. And that General you speak of? He's a former A-10 pilot himself. But what does he know about the airplane, right? That's what everyone said about the F-117 prior to March 27 1999... Still got a higher survival rate than the A-10. Honestly you and your other ARC username "Foxtrotalpha" pretty much...well...exhausted...this topic how many times over? I am sure others will engage you in further debate but I won't. I like to know which ARC username I am truly conversing with ;)/>/>. That and considering everything already written in previous threads here have already covered this ground times over, there really is nothing new to add. Save yourself some time. Arguing with him is like playing chess with a pigeon. He'll make a lot of noise, s**t all over the board and strut around as if he won. In other words, don't feed the troll. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Save yourself some time. Arguing with him is like playing chess with a pigeon. He'll make a lot of noise, s**t all over the board and strut around as if he won. In other words, don't feed the troll. ...disengaging... Edited December 23, 2015 by Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Well, you may want to get your money back from chump university if you still can't beat a bird at chess "disengaging" Edited December 23, 2015 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I sense a "witty" retort coming this way. Better set up some traffic cones to designation the retort's construction area... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 AT THE END OF TITANIC, THE BOAT SINKS!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 AT THE END OF TITANIC, THE BOAT SINKS!!! SPOILERS DUDE! -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Still got a higher survival rate than the A-10. BBRRRRTTT! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I don't know if I should groan when someone starts an A-10 thread or just chuckle.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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