11bee Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Clinstone said: No. DIRCM requires additional turrets while DAIRCM has the same capabilities without additional turrets or sensors. I would expect to see other rotary wing aircraft transitioning to the AAQ-45 over the next few years. I wasn’t aware of that. So DAIRCM can actively jam incoming manpads? I figured it was just a threat warning system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Wonder why the 160th has fielded this? Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clinstone Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 hours ago, 11bee said: I wasn’t aware of that. So DAIRCM can actively jam incoming manpads? I figured it was just a threat warning system. https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2018/navy/2018daircm.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Clinstone said: https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2018/navy/2018daircm.pdf That’s a pretty slick rig! If it works as advertised, it should be very common with a few years. Definitely much less weight than the current systems in use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Still need to come up with a way to defeat RPG's! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, hawkwrench said: Still need to come up with a way to defeat RPG's! Tim The leading killer of helos over the last 20 years. Army tanks and tracks are getting a version of the Israeli Trophy active protection system that looks to do a nice job but unfortunately that isn't much help for helo drivers. BTW, what is that round sensor directly below the right side RWR? Edited February 9, 2020 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clinstone Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 IR refueling probe light. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 The HH-60A and HH-60D were mentioned at the start of this thread so I thought this might be the best place to raise this topic again. Does anyone know if the HH-60A and HH-60D prototypes test-flown for slightly different test programs or were they closely related, programs if not one and the same? (The HH-60A and HH-60D prototypes were actually the same airframe - 23718) This is the HH-60A. https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6387634 This is the HH-60D. https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6412546 Also, where does the "Credible Hawk" fit into the HH-60A/D test program (if indeed it is part of this overall USAF H-60 program?) Revell (1/48) and Hasegawa (1/72) have kits of the "HH-60D" although what appears to come in each box is the HH-60A! I think the best starting point for the HH-60D might in fact be the Italeri 1/72 MH-60K Blackhawk kit. I'll need to examine it again in the attic tomorrow but possibly the radar nose could be modified to portray the HH-60D radar. It has the refueling probe and external tanks and mounts. Can anyone recommend a good source for information on these helicopters? I've checked through my own bookshelf and can find very little. There isn't much online and DTIC doesn't have any test reports (which would be fascinating to read!). Thanks for any assistance anyone can offer. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clinstone Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Loach Driver said: Does anyone know if the HH-60A and HH-60D prototypes test-flown for slightly different test programs or were they closely related, programs if not one and the same? (The HH-60A and HH-60D prototypes were actually the same airframe - 23718) Also, where does the "Credible Hawk" fit into the HH-60A/D test program (if indeed it is part of this overall USAF H-60 program?) Can anyone recommend a good source for information on these helicopters? I've checked through my own bookshelf and can find very little. There isn't much online and DTIC doesn't have any test reports (which would be fascinating to read!). Thanks for any assistance anyone can offer. The HH-60A and HH-60D were part of the same program. The HH-60As were the initial replacement for the HH-3E and they were "supposed" to be modified in the future to the HH-60D configuration later. As far as I have been able to determine, not all HH-60As were to be HH-60Ds similar to how not all of the HH-53s were supposed to be converted to the Pavelow standard. The 55th ARRS at Eglin took delivery of 10 UH-60As for initial testing. Only 23718 was converted to the HH-60A/D standard and it was the initial test aircraft for the program that you linked. Here are three of the first UH-60As being flown to Eglin AFB. In 1982 (soon after the first UH-60As were being delivered) the Air Staff recommended cutting the proposed 243 HH-60Ds to 69 HH-60Ds and 86 HH-60Es (the HH-60E was basically a UH-60A with a refueling probe). In the FY85 procurement bill the HH-60D was cut entirely. The HH-60D was killed for two primary reasons: cost and mission viability. For the cost aspect, Air Force Rescue was still under MAC at the time. The story told around AF circles is that the HH-60D was killed in part to pay for the C-17 which MAC really wanted. It probably was a combination of the extremely high unit price in conjunction with MAC wanting to put the funding to something else. For the mission viability aspect, this was in the 1980s when many in the Air Force doubted the probability of a successful CSAR mission during a Fulda Gap scenario. The SERE plan for most of the pilots was to head west and have a good pair of boots. I have heard stories where A-10 pilots were told that their survivability above 100 feet AGL was less than a minute. Credible Hawk was an initiative in the late 1980s to add extended range capability to the UH-60As (i.e. refueling probe and auxiliary tanks). By this point a scaled up version of the HH-60E was proposed, now called the HH-60G. The 10 UH-60A aircraft that were procured in 1982 (including the now de-modified -718) and 9 other aircraft were modified by Sikorsky in Troy, AL to the Credible Hawk standard. The Credible Hawk was purely an interim step and all were brought up to the MH/HH-60G standard by the early 1990s. I have a copy of the HH-60D IOT&E report but is for US Gov't access only. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Thanks for that detailed reply. It is a small part of the history of the Pavehawk that is largely forgotten now. Thanks also for the photo of the Credible Hawk airframe. Photos of the HH-60D seem to be rare enough but I might just have enough to warrant an attempt at modelling the D. Thanks again, LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I am in the early stages of planning an HH-60D build of 23718 in its later configuration when fitted with the nose radar and FLIR. The 1/72 Hasegawa UH-60J kit has the FLIR mount as well as the fuel tanks and inflight refueling boom. I think the kit even has a boom fitted an air data boom head so it looks like a good starting point! I've googled the HH-60D for the last few days and most magazine articles and references for it were written prior to the flight-testing of the helicopter. One article in "The MAC Flyer" from October 1983 contains some good information on the planned specification for the HH-60D and even has a diagram of the cockpit panel layout with the four CRT displays (2 in front of each pilot). Clinstone, I see you mentioned that you have the IOT&E report for the Night Hawk. I wonder if you might be able to answer a few general questions about the configuration of 23718 during testing. I wonder if the radar and FLIR and indeed the avionics package was operational during the testing at Edwards AFB? Did the instrument panel feature functioning cathode ray tube displays as planned for the production HH-60D (or did the airframe retain the original UH-60A instrument panel)? What was the layout for the rear compartment during testing? Were there any seats fitted and was any test instrumentation bolted to the floor? Was 23718 fitted with a rear compartment that was close to what was planned for a production-HH-60D at any point during testing? I only have three photo of the HH-60D with radar and FLIR fitted and it looks like a limited amount of test equipment was fitted in the rear cabin. Only one photo shows it fitted with an air data boom head fitted to the air refueling boom. The slip ring and other instrumentation seems to have been removed from the main and tail rotor hubs. Thanks for any assistance you, or anyone else, can offer in my research of the HH-60D. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clinstone Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) I wonder if the radar and FLIR and indeed the avionics package was operational during the testing at Edwards AFB? Yes. The FLIR and some of the avionics were non-operational versions but they were tested. Did the instrument panel feature functioning cathode ray tube displays as planned for the production HH-60D (or did the airframe retain the original UH-60A instrument panel)? Yes and it was nothing like the H-60A panel. Attached is a snip of the instrument panel. I have a better version if you want me to PM it. I don't feel like uploading it to a image hosting site. EDIT: Here is the cockpit What was the layout for the rear compartment during testing? Were there any seats fitted and was any test instrumentation bolted to the floor? I have not been able to find any cabin configurations but it should have been a clean cabin with only the FE/Gunner seats. The test instrumentation would have been in the cabin on orange racks. They did complete hoist testing so the equipment may have been removed at some point. Only one photo shows it fitted with an air data boom head fitted to the air refueling boom. The slip ring and other instrumentation seems to have been removed from the main and tail rotor hubs. Once the aircraft was delivered to IBM for modification from an HH-60A to an HH-60D much of the instrumentation was removed. The air data boom was most likely only fitted for the initial HH-60D flights at Edwards. Once the boom was removed I would posit that the cabin instrumentation was removed as well. Excerpts from the IOT&E report: Quote As a result of developmental problems, the modification and shakedown period was extended to 10 months. Combined testing was primarily devoted to developmental work, limiting the amount of IOT&E accomplished. Program cancellation occurred prior to any dedicated IOT&E. Insufficient data was collected to answer any IOT&E critical operational issues or test objectives; however, some preliminary subjective assessments of the system were obtained through participation in development test and evaluation. Operational effectiveness was undetermined. This post from the Army Flight Test thread has some other pictures that weren't public before (like so many other great ones in that thread). Edited July 29, 2020 by Clinstone Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Thanks for that detailed reply to my many questions. Yep, I’d be very happy to get a look at a high quality version of that cockpit panel! Thanks for that link. I had actually saved many of the “Army Flight Test” photos and I only pulled them out of an old computer yesterday. And the HH-60D photos from that link are there! It would be great to see more action in that thread. One of the best here on this forum. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CallMeOlli Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Hi! Quote These aircraft were test fit with a cabin floor mounted .50 caliber machine gun but I cannot find any evidence of it being used operationally. I found this pretty cool video of a Gulf War Pavehawk: And I own Stand Morse's "Gulf Air War Debrief". There is a photo of a sand-colored MH-60G (55th SOS) which carried the floor-mounted cal.50-guns. It's this picture in a better quality: Looks like there is little evidence of the use of the floor-guns. But I admit it is not the ultimate proof of an operational use... Best regards Olli Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Is that a pair of flare dispensers on the main wheel sponsons? Never noticed that before. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clinstone Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 That is the Bulldog system. It was the only flare system for the H-60G until the IEWS in the late 90s. The second part of this thread has some more photos with Bulldog. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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