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P-51D Mustang colours


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Hi everyone,

i'm looking for a bit of advice regarding the colour for the engine bearers and wheel bay of the P-51D. According to the instructions with my Tamiya 1/32 scale P- 51D all internals are chromate green - ish, but I've seen pics of superb models where these areas are chromate yellow, so can anyone give me guidance as to which colour is more likely to be correct, or were there variations depending on which sub contractor built the airplane ?

Any help would be gratefully received. :cheers:

Edited by hooter
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The subject of P-51 wheel wells has been extensively discussed here (the search function sucks, and I don't have links, unfortunately). The bottom line is, there is much more that we don't know about P-51D gear wells than what we do. But one thing we do know is that Ds and Ks didn't have overall chromate wheel wells.

What very few people know is that many, if not most P-51s in service during WWII had snap-in canvas liners in the main and tail wheel wells that completely covered almost all of the visible structure.

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What very few people know is that many, if not most P-51s in service during WWII had snap-in canvas liners in the main and tail wheel wells that completely covered almost all of the visible structure.

Interesting. If true, that would make most P-51 models inaccurate. Got any refs or pics to back that statement up?

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The wheel well liners were not used very often and only in some specific fields (like Iwo Jima).

The engine bearers were usually painted Interior Green.

About the wheel wells here's a thread from last year on Britmodeller, my post in it resumes the latest thinking on the matter:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234977885-p-51d-mustang-interior-colour-question/

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Places (like England) where they operated from paved runways, no. But anywhere they were operating from dirt, coral, or mud (Italy, China, anywhere in the SWPA), yes.

Not really Jennings, I've looked at thousands of pictures and the main wheel bay liners are extremely rare outside of the Pacific theater, even there they are mostly seen on Iwo Jima based Mustangs.

I have not seen any in the CBI, Italy etc...

By contrast, the tail wheel dust boots were present on all Mustangs (Allisons included) in every theater.

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Be that as it may, the colors of the P-51D/K main gear well are many and varied. I think the safest bet is to do the forward face of the main spar (the aft "wall" of the well") in chromate green, and everything else in natural metal with some of the structural elements in chromate. That's why we provided the alclad alloy stamp markings to go inside the upper wing skin (the "roof" of the well) on our P-51 stencil sheets.

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Here's what I previously wrote on the subject of wheel wells finish:

"From the very beginning Mustangs wheel wells were a mix of Yellow Zinc Chromate, tinted/Green ZC, Interior Green, Dull Dark Green, and unfinished (Aluminum) parts.

From Allison Mustangs to F-82's the evidence (factory and field pictures, finish specs, T.O.'s, footage etc...) shows that Mustangs didn't usually get a single unified color finish in the wheel wells.

I do not include Commonwealth Allisons in this list as it seems the RAF repainted the wells in silver, Colin Ford or others can probably tell us more.

Throughout the Mustang production the main spar was finished with YZC or IG, the ribs could also be YZC or left unpainted, the separation wall between the two wells was often IG or unpainted, the wing skin forming the ceiling were YZC or unpainted, the stringers were often YZC, some small bracket were GZC or DDG etc...

Basically it is not simple, all of this evolved and these colors could "move around" between the various parts of the wells.

As long as minimum anti-corrosion guidelines were (somewhat) followed it didn't matter much what color went were, it seems to have been a matter of production convenience.

It is important to note that as production advanced so would the amount of protective colors in the wheel wells, a P-51D-5 had a lot more unfinished parts than a P-51D-30.

To complicate things even more the wells were finished asymmetrically starting (possibly) with the P-51D-20NA.

In conclusion, a single unified color finish in the wells is mostly a post war thing though it is possible that the last block(s) of Dallas built P-51D's had a full coat of YZC in the wells.

Also, one or two period pictures seem to show a full silver finish in a P-51K-5, did some of these earlier blocks receive this finish? Was this specific aircraft repainted for some reason?

Clearly some questions remain unanswered but that the gist of the current thinking on Mustang wheel wells."

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Here's what I previously wrote on the subject of wheel wells finish:

"From the very beginning Mustangs wheel wells were a mix of Yellow Zinc Chromate, tinted/Green ZC, Interior Green, Dull Dark Green, and unfinished (Aluminum) parts.

From Allison Mustangs to F-82's the evidence (factory and field pictures, finish specs, T.O.'s, footage etc...) shows that Mustangs didn't usually get a single unified color finish in the wheel wells.

I do not include Commonwealth Allisons in this list as it seems the RAF repainted the wells in silver, Colin Ford or others can probably tell us more.

Throughout the Mustang production the main spar was finished with YZC or IG, the ribs could also be YZC or left unpainted, the separation wall between the two wells was often IG or unpainted, the wing skin forming the ceiling were YZC or unpainted, the stringers were often YZC, some small bracket were GZC or DDG etc...

Basically it is not simple, all of this evolved and these colors could "move around" between the various parts of the wells.

As long as minimum anti-corrosion guidelines were (somewhat) followed it didn't matter much what color went were, it seems to have been a matter of production convenience.

It is important to note that as production advanced so would the amount of protective colors in the wheel wells, a P-51D-5 had a lot more unfinished parts than a P-51D-30.

To complicate things even more the wells were finished asymmetrically starting (possibly) with the P-51D-20NA.

In conclusion, a single unified color finish in the wells is mostly a post war thing though it is possible that the last block(s) of Dallas built P-51D's had a full coat of YZC in the wells.

Also, one or two period pictures seem to show a full silver finish in a P-51K-5, did some of these earlier blocks receive this finish? Was this specific aircraft repainted for some reason?

Clearly some questions remain unanswered but that the gist of the current thinking on Mustang wheel wells."

Based on this, I'd say the vast majority of P-51 models I've seen are inaccurate. Any pics that show Mustang WW's in detail or even the tail wheel canvas boot?

What would a Korean-war era P-51D have for colors in the WW? Did they still have the tail wheel canvas (I think those aircraft had the tail wheel locked down)?

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Yep.

I'm down with this, it's good to know that some of the more pompous P-51 builders got it wrong but again, are there any references you can point me to? Pics? Tech publications? How did you come to these conclusions?

What about Korean vintage Mustangs? Would they be in the same state as originally built or would their wheel wheels have been re-finished after going through multiple overhauls?

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This has been discussed at some length on ARC before. I don't have links, and the search function sucks, but it's here someplace. The problem is, even if there ever was documentation (which is unlikely), it's either buried deep in some archive or has been destroyed. We're left with trying to interpret period b&w photos and go from fragments of documentation.

Korean War? Who knows?

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I think the best solution is to build the model how YOU think it should be and be satisfied with that. After all, I don't think a P-51 expert is going to come along and say that's definitely wrong !

Unless you can find definite proof that the particular a/c you are modelling is THAT colour you're left with your best guess.

However, I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed to this topic, after all, it's discussions like this that make our hobby so interesting ! :thumbsup:/>

Edited by hooter
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I'm down with this, it's good to know that some of the more pompous P-51 builders got it wrong but again, are there any references you can point me to? Pics? Tech publications? How did you come to these conclusions?

What about Korean vintage Mustangs? Would they be in the same state as originally built or would their wheel wheels have been re-finished after going through multiple overhauls?

As is often the case with such things it's all about following the crumbs.

The conclusions were reached by comparing period pictures, footage, documents and discussing with folks who restore Mustangs (most of them have seen factory finishes still present w/inspection stamps before starting some restorations).

I am reluctant to post pictures because many were shared privately.

I recommend looking at photos of recently (and accurately) restored Mustangs such as "Sierra Sue II", "Twilight Tears" or "Happy Jacks Go Buggy", they'll give you a good idea of what the finish looked like on late production P-51D's.

Things get even more complicated with post war and Korean war Mustangs.

Depending on where they came from, some could have retained their WWII finish while others were repainted.

Some F-51's in Korea were entirely painted silver, I've seen photos showing both Green Chromate or Silver wells on these.

Here's a picture of the tail wheel dust boot on a restored P-51D.

DUST_BOOT_zpsj035yqkf.jpg

(photo: Patrice Sublemontier)

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Re the main wheel wells: What you have to remember is that the idea was to get airplanes out the door as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Long term corrosion control wasn't high on the list of priorities during WWII (as a rule). Aircraft manufacturers often sought, and usually received permission from the USAAF to cut corners on corrosion control. What we know we see in some P-51D wheel wells bears this out. Items that might cause galvanic corrosion (dissimilar metal to metal contact) did need to be coated, but most parts didn't. We've got photos showing the alloy markings stamped on the back side of the upper wing skins, visible as the "roof" of the main well, which proves that that part wasn't coated beyond what it received when it was produced at the aluminum mill. As noted, some components were coated with chromate of various colors, and sometimes Dull Dark Green and/or Interior Green. But the consensus is that, at least on the D/K, the bulk of the main wells was unfinished aluminum.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am working on an old monogram 1/48 P-51D now. Acording to the instructions, the wheel wells and engine bearers are interior green chromate. I used Model Master Acrly 4852. MM 4852

Monogram molded the model in silver plastic with no instructions for exterior color. I guess they assume modelers leave it unpainted and as-is!

As Mustang is made of Aluminum, I airbrushed flat Aluminum and plan to spray gloss on it? It actually looks really nice now.

TAMIYA Flat Aluminum

But now, I am second guessing. Was it a good idea? Should I have used Chrome Silver? I am an acrylic guy, so please suggest something acrylic, not enamel or lacquer. Thank you.

Edited by MiG Hunter
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IMO no, you used the right color. For your workaday P-51, Flat Aluminum is the way to go. Chrome Silveris much too bright.

Agreed, the only Mustangs that are that shiny are restored warbirds. The pics of the real things range from dull aluminum to almost a flat light metallic gray. IMO, accurately replicating a worn NFM finish is one of the more challenging things out there. Only seen a few models that look accurate. Most look like chrome-plated toys.

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I'm hoping that you guys know that in spite of the aluminum finish on the fuselage and other portions of the aircraft, the majority of the wings were painted silver (aluminized lacquer if memory serves). Somewhere here, Jennings has an image of what was painted and what wasn't painted on the wings. No, the paint was never stripped and the metal buffed. The painted finish was kept as much as possible within given constraints of the supply infrastructure (which was pretty good by the time the B/C/D Mustangs rolled around).

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I'm hoping that you guys know that in spite of the aluminum finish on the fuselage and other portions of the aircraft, the majority of the wings were painted silver (aluminized lacquer if memory serves). Somewhere here, Jennings has an image of what was painted and what wasn't painted on the wings. No, the paint was never stripped and the metal buffed. The painted finish was kept as much as possible within given constraints of the supply infrastructure (which was pretty good by the time the B/C/D Mustangs rolled around).

Correct. I just find it humorous when you see models that replicate a P-51 combat vet. They have exhaust streaks and soot from the MG muzzles present and yet are finished in overall polished chrome silver.

Here's a good example of the finish on a Mustang that is in combat:

https://jetpilotoverseas.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/136289006-02bg5aqm-adsc_7314x.jpg

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