steveski

Zoukei-mura 1/48 F-4J Phantom II

157 posts in this topic

Dave,

will the decals be released under your brand or another?  And any chance a trip trey mig killer will be included?  

 

BW

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On 11/22/2016 at 0:03 AM, JeffreyK said:

...from what I've seen so far, yes. Except of course the issues concerning the B model don't apply.

I think the ZM is the only kit on the market that has the rear cockpit bulkhead correct (even most aftermarket resin cockpits have this wrong). ZM even give you the four tabs between the fuselage and the intake ramps. And engines and the boundary layer outlets on the intake raps....

A build review over on Cybermodeler seems to suggest that it goes together quite well too.

J

Sorry if I have missed a few posts but what's the issue/s in the B model?

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Academy copied the detail scribing on the wing tops of the thin (B) wing from the thick wing (although they released the B first...), but it is actually different. I recommend the Daco book for good comparison photos. Also, a Mk. H5 seat should have been included, but as I said, it's not necessarily wrong for the scheme provided with the kit decals (it is though for most of the Eduard box schemes).

 

As for the intake/engine shoulder blending: Yes, Academy's kit has a slightly softer blending from kink to curve, but the photos are a bit misleading. There is a panel line along the kink that extends aft, even after the kink has blended into a curve. The ZM kit has slightly heavier panel lines than the Academy kit and lighter colour plastic. All this make it look as if the kink extends a lot further aft on the ZM kit, but what you see in the photos is mainly that panel line which sits on the already curved surface.

 

Nathant said that the Academy stabilators look awful in that comparison shot - actually, the bit that's wrong about them can't be seen there... In their outline dimensions and shape, they are 100% correct (it's the Hasegawa ones that are undersized), the surface detail and the slots are the problem on the Academy ones.

 

As Dave said, there are certainly small issues here and there, no kit can be 100% perfect, but overall, it seems Zoukei Mura have captured the shapes and details of the Phantom like no other mfr before. Of course, you can still enhance the detail further, but right out of the box you already get an awful lot. 

 

Jeffrey

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On 11/28/2016 at 10:41 AM, delide said:

I'm going to skip this one, spent some time looking at the photos, I don't think it captures the the look of a phantom that well. The most obvious issue to me is the transition between the spine and fuselage around the exhaust area.

 

There is the line between the spine and the fuselage, on the kit it doesn't really blend in till right below the beginning of the vertical tail:

Zoukei-Mura-F-4J-Phantom-1-48-Nuremberg-

On the real thing the line starts to blend in before the end of wing root, after that it's pretty much smooth curved surface only(no clear line to be seen):

1280px-F-4_Phantom_II_VF-301.jpg

 

Hasegawa and Academy look better in this regard:

f-4b_04.jpg

 

Sure there must be other improvements in shape, like The intakes looks very good indeed(but the intake duct is misshapen), but the overall shape seems to be worse or at least not better than the hasegawa kit IMO. 


The airfix phantam looks very good(check their latest workbench article), I think it's far easier to nail the shape with the help of LIDAR then with 2D drawing/photos, shame it's the wrong scale for
me though.

Another candidate for the wood chipper (once the Academy kit has gone through).   

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8 hours ago, JeffreyK said:

Nathant said that the Academy stabilators look awful in that comparison shot - actually, the bit that's wrong about them can't be seen there... In their outline dimensions and shape, they are 100% correct (it's the Hasegawa ones that are undersized), the surface detail and the slots are the problem on the Academy ones.

 

Jeffrey

Hi Jeff, aren't the Hasegawa slotted stabs the correct size? Also, are you sure the Academy ones are the right shape? I thought they looked flat on top, where as the top of the stabs should have some subtle curves from leading edge to trailing edge? I love your resin upgrades by the way...

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8 hours ago, JeffreyK said:

Academy copied the detail scribing on the wing tops of the thin (B) wing from the thick wing (although they released the B first...), but it is actually different. I recommend the Daco book for good comparison photos. Also, a Mk. H5 seat should have been included, but as I said, it's not necessarily wrong for the scheme provided with the kit decals (it is though for most of the Eduard box schemes).

 

As for the intake/engine shoulder blending: Yes, Academy's kit has a slightly softer blending from kink to curve, but the photos are a bit misleading. There is a panel line along the kink that extends aft, even after the kink has blended into a curve. The ZM kit has slightly heavier panel lines than the Academy kit and lighter colour plastic. All this make it look as if the kink extends a lot further aft on the ZM kit, but what you see in the photos is mainly that panel line which sits on the already curved surface.

 

Nathant said that the Academy stabilators look awful in that comparison shot - actually, the bit that's wrong about them can't be seen there... In their outline dimensions and shape, they are 100% correct (it's the Hasegawa ones that are undersized), the surface detail and the slots are the problem on the Academy ones.

 

As Dave said, there are certainly small issues here and there, no kit can be 100% perfect, but overall, it seems Zoukei Mura have captured the shapes and details of the Phantom like no other mfr before. Of course, you can still enhance the detail further, but right out of the box you already get an awful lot. 

 

Jeffrey

Many thanks for the insights, Jeffrey.

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2 hours ago, Nathant said:

Hi Jeff, aren't the Hasegawa slotted stabs the correct size? Also, are you sure the Academy ones are the right shape? I thought they looked flat on top, where as the top of the stabs should have some subtle curves from leading edge to trailing edge? I love your resin upgrades by the way...

 

I think Hasegawa re-tooled the stabs at some point. Just got a set of slotted ones from the F-4J kit out and they are just a tad undersized both in span and chord, but close enough, not as in the photo above (which must be from the old tool).

The shape of the Academy stabs is pretty good I think - I measured up a real one for my resin set, including interim points for panel lines and have drawn a plan view template from those figures. The Academy one matched the outline very very well, just the surface detail is all wrong.

 

The Hasegawa Phantoms lack a tiny bit of "beef" around the spine and shoulders, both Academy and ZM (and R/M) are a bit better here, but overall I still hold Hasegawa in the No 2 position, I certainly won't throw them into the wood chipper and I will even fix most issues on the Academy ones, at least for the F-4B.

 

Cheers

J

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Hello all

 

Just took a short break while painting my new Tamiya Tomcat...and came across this threat! Great all around info, thanks a lot. I will order the new TM bird and also have just ordered the obviously much needed addons to my Academy -B from hypersonicmodels. I wonder if the TM canopy might fit an Academy bird...after all ist seems to come with two sets ;-)

 

thanks

Uwe

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so can you only order this from japan for now ?

Andrew

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14 hours ago, Nathant said:

Hi Jeff, aren't the Hasegawa slotted stabs the correct size? Also, are you sure the Academy ones are the right shape? I thought they looked flat on top, where as the top of the stabs should have some subtle curves from leading edge to trailing edge? I love your resin upgrades by the way...

...forgot to add, the Academy stabs aren't flat on top, they have the correct airfoil including the camber near the leading edge. It could perhaps be a little bit more pronounced, but it's there.

J

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Hello all...

 

With my add on parts in the mail now (thanks Jeff) I was wondering what else could be done to improve on the Academy bird. Then I remembered the remnants of a F-4G I had once slaughtered to get parts for an -S that I then sold on. In the old -G box I found the glass parts still intact...and a test of the wind screen on the Academy fuselage looks like that...

Academy%20with%20Hase%20Screen_zpsr0p756

...very confincing I would say! So the glass went over into the Academy box...waiting for the day...

 

cheers

Uwe

Edited by anj4de

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On 11/24/2016 at 11:14 AM, phantomdriver said:

if the B/N ain't mentioned... NAY!

 

At the top of the old man blog #89 he announces that they will be developing each version.

 

"F-4J will be followed by S and let me announce we'll go straight on developing each type!!"

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9 hours ago, phantomdriver said:

And yet,the statement nesr the bottom contradicts it. No N is mentioned 

 

Yes, he does seem to do that. At the bottom of  #88 he says "It's up to you to keep us running until we complete the whole series of F-4 Phantom, from the J-type to the S, C, D, J (Marine ver.) types, then to each E, F, G and EJ long-nose types, to eventually finish with the Spey engine mounted types."

 

But at the beginning of #89 he says "F-4J will be followed by S and let me announce we'll go straight on developing each type!!"

 

There is a new blog #90 but so far only in Japanese.

 

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carefully thinking about Mr Shigeta's statement there...

It could be that, as long as there's enough support/ interest, they will complete the range..

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The author's first language is Japanese. Keeping in mind translation and this is only a blog on his part, taking %100 on everything he mentions may be a bit too hopeful. Like every company in today's environment, future plans can not be cast in stone. If each kit sells like crazy then it could be worth the while to invest in tooling etc..

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For a lot of the series, tooling mods wouldn't be a major issue as they are J-79 models, even long noses/slats..

The Spey versions.... now that's another matter

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3 hours ago, phantomdriver said:

For a lot of the series, tooling mods wouldn't be a major issue as they are J-79 models, even long noses/slats..

The Spey versions.... now that's another matter

Actually, I think you are vastly underestimating the changes between the various models. You have thin and thick wings, long & short noses, recce noses, long & short exhaust cans, gun & no gun, slatted and non-slatted wings, different stabs, MLG, cockpits, seats, wheels & tires, etc. IMHO, it's safe to say that about the only thing most of them have in common is engine (excepting of course the Spey engined versions). For illustration, check out all the various sprues that come with the various Hasegawa Phantom II kits.

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Anybody got sprue shots of the Z-M kit? Modular kit, add/subtract sprues... Hasegawa(and others) seem to be pretty good at it.

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30 minutes ago, IAGeezer said:

Anybody got sprue shots of the Z-M kit? Modular kit, add/subtract sprues... Hasegawa(and others) seem to be pretty good at it.

 

If you look in this thread there are detailed images of the built kit and the sprues in the blog that is linked in this thread.

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12 hours ago, madmanrick said:

Actually, I think you are vastly underestimating the changes between the various models. You have thin and thick wings, long & short noses, recce noses, long & short exhaust cans, gun & no gun, slatted and non-slatted wings, different stabs, MLG, cockpits, seats, wheels & tires, etc. IMHO, it's safe to say that about the only thing most of them have in common is engine (excepting of course the Spey engined versions). For illustration, check out all the various sprues that come with the various Hasegawa Phantom II kits.

Since the S is already being produced, the slatted wing issue is moot...the non slatted already done in the J

Thick/ thin wings? they already have that planned for, since the conversation I had at Telford indicated they had that covered...

Can sizes will depend on which end of the real production run they intend to cover, which we never got to touch on...

Same goes for tires

As far as I got from them, Camera birds aren't likely to be done..

It would be foolish to make an assumption based on a comparison with the Hasegawa range at this point, but based on the amount of feed back at Telford, Speys are definitely on the radar at some point

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well, if they said they already have thin wings covered, and are not likely to do the RFs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then they are planning to do the B and/or N.

 

There's no other reason to even do thin wings. Unless they plan to release one of the thin winged YF-4J, in which case modelers will just make their own B and N from that release.

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1 hour ago, phantomdriver said:

Thick/ thin wings? they already have that planned for, since the conversation I had at Telford indicated they had that covered...mount of feed back at Telford, Speys are definitely on the radar at some point

 

So now you're saying they'll do a B/N after you so adamantly stated they weren't ? :rolleyes: 

 

Gene K

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