scotthldr Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) The master was based off of the Tamiya forward fuselage and the resin casting should be the exact same length as the kit part. I thought Wingman said that the new forward fuselage was a direct copy of the Kinetic part?? So we now have a similar problem to the early Kinetic F-16's when they fixed the nose droop and we now have fixed and unfixed kits out there sporting the same kit number, and it's pot luck which one you get. Edited February 11, 2016 by scotthldr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Pfffft Edited February 12, 2016 by Dave Roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DBB69 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hi Guy's, I didn't have any problems with mine, but this is the Isracast F-16I, not the Wingman. It went together perfectly. I also have the Isracast F-16D version also, but the Delta version didn't fit as well, but it wasn't short, and the quality wasn't as good, it is like the details aren't as sharp on it as they were in the F-16I version, maybe the mold was just about wore out. I have seen the wingman stuff and it resin seems different that what Ra'anan used. Seems to me Wingman is trying to pass the problem off as someone else's fault. Hey Dave how you doing man? you gonna be at the show in Atlanta? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Undid Edited February 12, 2016 by Dave Roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If it's suppose to have used the Tamiya upper as a starting point the one I have does not measure up Picture doesn't show where I lined up the rear to be even. I have no Idea what happened all I know is I am hoping they can fix me up and get it right for all who have the bad parts... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon053 Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Gee, thanks Dave. If only a small few got the problem kits, I needed these odds back a few weeks ago with my Mega Millions drawing! I got mine through Sprue Brothers, not blaming them or anyone else...stuff happens and i've already moved on with working on mine. Wish I could post pictures, my patch work came out alright and work is progressing, next step is cutting it to put in a Blackbox rear instrument hood to make a block 30! Duane Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas@Wingman Models Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Dear fellow modelmakers! I am very sorry for the inconvenience this problem caused. We are on the case and looking for a solution to satisfy you as customers as well as ourselves, so we can sell a high quality product. Let me first give you some background information on this resin set, so that assumptions in this post won't lead you into the wrong direction. Our F-16D conversion is meant as a conversion, not as an upgrade set. This explains why we include a Tamiya-style rear cockpit tub to be used with a Tamiya front one, simply to keep uniformity. We also tried to keep the parts to a minimum to make a nice double-seater of the Viper and not to have the price of it explode. We are well aware of possible problems producing large thin parts, especially when it comes to shrinkage. As we don't have any secrets I can share with you that we are using Smooth Cast resin. This is an American brand known for their high quality (and expensive) products. Because of good results we had in the past, we are using SC 305 with a shrinkage of 0.0065 %. This resin is perfect for large parts as the curing time is about 30 minutes, with hardly any shrinkage involved. Judging from some images in this post, my assumption is that some of the parts have not been aligned properly. I am 100% sure that a 2 to 3mm gap is impossible with our parts. To my own experience with e.g. several Aires kits, shrinkage occurs in all directions like releasing air from a balloon. If it is too small, then its too small at all ends – not just at the back end (while the sides match the shape of the Tamiya kit perfectly). We random checked the kits in our warehouse and we currently are unable to locate any flaws. However, these large parts can receive some deformations when pulled out of the molds too early or some bubbles might have been trapped in it. So, I would not vouch for that this did not happen in the first place. This is then a quality problem and can be solved rather quickly. Please, if you have such a part, just write us, include a picture and we will gladly replace it. You should know by now that we are more than receptive for well meant feed back (but we do not like to be engaged in another witch hunt). We are a small company and customer service is our highest priority. At the time of writing this, Ra'anan and our casting person in Israel are trying to locate the problem. The only reason for such a problem might be a single defect mold, which we have to locate and get rid off. I also like to include some images Ra'anan took yesterday after the s**t hit the fan. Please scroll in photobucket - there should be four images for you. He took a random production part (not a master or specially cast part) and aligned it to the Tamiya kit parts. You can clearly see that there aren't any gaps and that the outcome looks more than convincing. All the best Andreas My link Edited February 12, 2016 by Andreas@Wingman Models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scotthldr Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Andreas, I'm sure everyone on here will appreciate you coming on here and being upfront with the problems that this product may have, and I trust that you will rectify any issues asap. However what will happen with the defective stock(if any)that is already out there in distributors warehouses and various outlets? I'm sure you will be aware of the problem early Kinetic F-16's had with the exaggerated nose droop. Although this fault was rectified somewhat, faulty kits are still out there on shop shelves and since they kept the same box design and kit number it's only when you open the box that you'll know if you got a faulty or rectified kit. I know it's early days and you'll want to find the root cause first but do you have any plans on how to minimise the same problem? Good luck Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas@Wingman Models Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hi Scott, thank you for your comment. I cannot say how many faulty parts are in the ware houses of our trade customers. We heard from them that the majority of the 66 kits we sent out so far are OK. So, the only thing I can do at the moment is to offer that when you detect a faulty part, then please contact us via e-mail, send an image of the damaged part and our casting person will send out a replacement to you. All future orders for this set will be thoroughly checked prior to shipment to eliminate any further problems. In re to the Kinetic issue with the wrong nose droop I can assure you that we based our master on the original Tamiya kit – with a Kinetic cockpit insert worked into the Tamiya part. All the best Andreas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) All is well. Edited February 12, 2016 by Dave Roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pookie Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) deleted. Edited February 12, 2016 by pookie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) To be honest, mine seems to be ok. What I don’t like is the fact that the rear cockpit is clearly a direct copy of the front. Not really good enough for my liking. I have dry fit the parts and so far so good. Edited February 12, 2016 by loki Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Dave, your alignment at the front is clearly fine. Can you line up the resin part with Tamiya's original front part (like Loki did) at their front tips and we can see panel line by panel line how they match? I am curious too to see what is going on here. I originally thought you had cut the resin part from the block incorrectly, but from the pics you posted it does not seem to be that way, the panel lines/rivets seem to match Andreas' linked pics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom726 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I have been very understanding and cordial. However, your post insinuates that some of us don't know what we're doing. It's taken as a slap in the face and has me considering just returning my set for a refund and getting an F-16D by just building a Hasegawa kit. Dude, it's just plastic and resin! At least Andreas approaches the issue in a constructive way and offers to replace any faulty parts and QC future shipments! Bjarne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Nope, changed my mind. Edited February 12, 2016 by Dave Roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas@Wingman Models Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Dear Dave! I am awfully sorry for my words and your images certainly proof that you absolutely know what you are talking about – please accept my apologies for my ignorance and misunderstanding of one of your previous posts from which I understood someone else had send you these images and which gave me the impression of a misalignment. This was not meant as an insult or question of your abilities – Flying Leathernecks Models is well known to me and your work is outstanding. I am most thankful for pointing out the problem and I desperately wait to hear from Ra'anan where the problem is. This big gap is unexplainable to me and we will take every measure to solve this matter. Again my sincere apologies if I might have offended you - this was certainly not my intention. Best regards Andreas Edited February 12, 2016 by Andreas@Wingman Models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Dave, your alignment at the front is clearly fine. Can you line up the resin part with Tamiya's original front part (like Loki did) at their front tips and we can see panel line by panel line how they match? I am curious too to see what is going on here. I originally thought you had cut the resin part from the block incorrectly, but from the pics you posted it does not seem to be that way, the panel lines/rivets seem to match Andreas' linked pics. I did it and this is what it looks like It goes off at the 1st line behind the nose cone.and gets worse as you go back I measured the length at 12.05 cm for the resin part and 12.3 for the kit part....all in all my set is FUBAR :bandhead2:/> and I will get in touch with Sprue Bros and/or Wingman to see who will be sending me a replacement. Thanks Wingman for being responsible and owning up to your Mistake. Resin Part Kit part A mirror(sorta) image kit part on bottom kit part on bottom look at the difference at the wing attachment area kit part on top kit part on top Edited February 12, 2016 by viper730 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Andreas, I replied to your message on Facebook. All is good......time to have a beer and move on! Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas@Wingman Models Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hi viper730! Brilliant – these images and measurements are exactly what we need to narrow down the problem. Again, it is an absolute myth to me how this can happen. Especially when other castings of the same part are absolutely fine (as you can see in our images). We at Wingman will certainly send you the replacement parts. Best wishes! Andreas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 We at Wingman will certainly send you the replacement parts. Best wishes! Andreas Can’t ask fairer than that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas@Wingman Models Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Dear friends! This morning we finally found the culprit – two molds out of five that were taken out too early or possibly exposed to unhealthy climate conditions (at that time it was over 95 ° in Israel). Thus, the rubber did not cure properly and both molds had shrunk … Unfortunately, this is not noticeable with your own eyes, only when you put the part in question on the Tamiya kit or when you take a caliper. WHAT A BUMMER – just when you think everything is under control! So, I will measure each part of our kits we still have in stock and make sure no defect parts will be sold anymore. These boxes will be marked as "revised". Also early next week we will start replacing the faulty parts – after new molds have been made and thoroughly checked. Please, send us your mailing addresses with images to andreas(at)wingmanmodles.com and I will pass it on to our casting person in Israel. He will make sure that you'll soon receive your replacements directly from him. Anyway, all the best Andreas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Dear friends! This morning we finally found the culprit – two molds out of five that were taken out too early or possibly exposed to unhealthy climate conditions (at that time it was over 95 ° in Israel). Thus, the rubber did not cure properly and both molds had shrunk … Unfortunately, this is not noticeable with your own eyes, only when you put the part in question on the Tamiya kit or when you take a caliper. WHAT A BUMMER – just when you think everything is under control! So, I will measure each part of our kits we still have in stock and make sure no defect parts will be sold anymore. These boxes will be marked as "revised". Also early next week we will start replacing the faulty parts – after new molds have been made and thoroughly checked. Please, send us your mailing addresses with images to andreas(at)wingmanmodles.com and I will pass it on to our casting person in Israel. He will make sure that you'll soon receive your replacements directly from him. Anyway, all the best Andreas Now that is customer service. Awesome job Andreas. Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Werner's Wings Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Now that is customer service. Awesome job Andreas. Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Werner's Wings True but not to do so would be business suicide. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USAFsparkchaser Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Cool now I have a new question. When will you do a version without the HUD repeater? I need to do a block 25 from Luke that I flew on. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ah69 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Dear friends, My name is Adi Hazak ,and i'm the one that made the casting work of this conversion set. I'm deeply sorry for the disappointment from the upper fuselage part -but in the cast process ,there's no chance to see this. Anyway ,the master part was upgraded ane i made 4 new molds -and the result is less than 0.4 mm shrink. i already started to send new parts for customers -according to a list Andreas Klein from Wingman sent me. if there's any problem with the new parts ,you can feel free to inform me on my E-Mail :Email me yours, Adi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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