Advice on using Vallejo paint

[GeejeeZ]

Hi guys,

To my unpleasant surprise I see that more and more modelling shops around here start selling Vallejo paint instead of Tamiya, Humbrol or Revell. I tried Vallejo paint but got bad results with it. Just recently I tried Vallejo bottles of what should be transparent black (smoke) and transparent green, but I don't know how to obtain a transparent colour with it: these colours turn out to be just flat black and flat green. I tried thinning them with water or thinner, but then the paint just floats off the painted surface.

Can anyone point me the right direction or give me some advice on how to get the best out of Vallejo paint?

Oh yeah, before I forget and to make matters more complicated: I brush paint only... :(

Thank you in advance!

Gertjan

Edited February 19, 2016 by GeejeeZ

[Tank]

I have been using Vallejo more and more these days to airbrush, for me I have found it is important to us their thinner with their products. Are you using Model Color paints? Those are the only ones recommended for brush paint, similar to Model Air, you may need to use their product. Yes, I have seen people say you can use those other items but it never works for me. All the rest of paints are for airbrushing IIRC.

HTH

[marvin20]

Hi guys,

To my unpleasant surprise I see that more and more modelling shops around here start selling Vallejo paint instead of Tamiya, Humbrol or Revell. I tried Vallejo paint but got bad results with it. Just recently I tried Vallejo bottles of what should be transparent black (smoke) and transparent green, but I don't know how to obtain a transparent colour with it: these colours turn out to be just flat black and flat green. I tried thinning them with water or thinner, but then the paint just floats off the painted surface.

Can anyone point me the right direction or give me some advice on how to get the best out of Vallejo paint?

Oh yeah, before I forget and to make matters more complicated: I brush paint only... :(/>

Thank you in advance!

:cheers:/>

Gertjan

Have you tried going to YouTube to look at some of the videos that people have posted on how to apply Vallejo paints. I had troubles airbrushing them, but looked at a few videos and practiced applying it to plastic spoons and once I got a smooth finish on them, I then started to use them on my models. I mostly airbrush them on large areas, and brush paint using Model Color for small detail work, and haven't had any problems with the paint adhering since I learned that they have to be applied in thin coats and built up over time to get full coverage.

HTH

[longmc]

I've started using the Vallejo line of paints, and for the most part am very pleased. Just note, the "Model Color" line is mainly for brush painting, and I've not had good results airbrushing. However, the "Model Air" line is specifically for airbrushing and as stated above, using their thinner it sprays very well. You have to build up light coats of it over a primer coat (their black base primer is excellent!).

The biggest problem I've found so far is their colors aren't always exact matches.

I have also tried the Ammo line of similar paints, and have had mixed results. It's very temperamental to use, and easy to screw up (at least for me).

Hope this helps.

Mike

[Lancer512]

The main difference between Vallejo paints and Tamiya or Gunze is, that is is a true acrylic. Tamiya and Gunze (Mr. Hobby) are both alcohol based and will have a better bond to the surface. That said, you MUST prime your model if you are using Vallejo paints. The paint becomes just as as tough as the other acrylic paints after a week, but is safe to handle within a few minutes.

I am having good results with thining Model Color for airbrushing. The secret is that you use the correct thinner and the mixing ratio. Just last month I found out that X-20A is a very good thinner for Vallejo paints. In fact, for acrylics, I am using nothing else as a thiner anymore. Do not use water for thinning. Yes, it works, but it is very difficult to get a smooth finish if you thin it with only water. Their own thinner, X-20A or any homebrew alternative (see YouTube), is the way to go.

[jinmmydel]

Oh boy...the "true acrylic" stuff again:

http://jimsmodels.com/a-bit-about-paint-chemistry/

To answer OP, first I'd ask why you're limiting yourself to a paint you don't like, or don't like the results of just because it's available at the LHS. You're lucky to have a LHS, but I see no reason to be beholden to them if 2016. If you prefer a different paint it's certainly more economical to buy online. Once you reach the 3-4 bottle threshold the shipping prices are negated versus having to drive to a hobby shop and pay their inevitable markup.

Now, if you do want to use Vallejo then here are some tips. Fist, Model Color is not made for airbrushing. You can..yes, but you have to thin it way down, and at a certain point you're compromising the chemistry of the paint. In my experiences of thinning Model Color to the point of spraying like I need it's usually resulted in paint that was weak and highly compromised. You can thin any point past a point where it becomes virtually useless. Now, is it possible, sure, but I'd highly recommend sticking to Model Air if possible. Now, MA claims to be airbrush ready. I don't find this to be the case in most instances, at least not to spray the way I demand it sprays. If you do need to thin it stick to Vallejo's thinner.

[Lancer512]

Jim, thanks for the link. Excellent write up!

That cleared up a lot.

[GeejeeZ]

Whoa, thanks for the replies!

The bottles of Vallejo I have are Model Color so I can use them for hand brushing.

Lancer and Mike, normally I prime everything I paint, but that would be a problem when painting transparent colours. I'll look up Vallejo- or X-20A- thinner.

Jimmy, ofcourse I could buy paint online, but I hate to be amidst a painting job and then first having to order a missing colour . Besides: if Vallejo will be the new standard around here, I'd rather give it a serious try to come to terms with it. Perfect article you wrote btw!!

And ofcourse Marvin: YouTube here I come!

Thanks again guys, you've all been very helpful!

Gertjan

[plasticWerks_JL]

In lieu of starting a new thread, I'd like to ask if anyone's ever used Vallejo Model Air over a base of Tamiya, and if it helped the the Vallejo adhere? I usually do this with MM Acryl, and it works, but the MM paint clogs the airbrush easily and is fussy to work with.

My experience with Vallejo is limited to some metal colors (their aluminum and steel Model Air), and some recent experimenting with their black Surface Primer on a scrap piece of plastic. The primer sprayed well, but flakes off in spots with tape.

Thanks, fellas

[Lancer512]

Vallejo needs a coat of primer or basecoat.

A well known british modeler used to spray XF-19 as a primer all the time. He never had any problems with it. For the new metallic colors, use X-1 as a base coat. Much better than the Vallejo primer stuff.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Lancer512

[plasticWerks_JL]

Thanks, I think I'll pick up a bottle of regular Vallejo paint and compare.

[Kaibutsu]

Thanks, I think I'll pick up a bottle of regular Vallejo paint and compare.

Don't forget to let us know how things turn out.

Thanks

[plasticWerks_JL]

Don't forget to let us know how things turn out.

Thanks

I'll try to post some pics. I've already prepped and sprayed my scrap piece with XF-24 Dark Grey, and picked up some Vallejo Light Grey today. I'll let it cure at least 24 hrs between coats, then test the final coats with different masking tapes and poster putty. Isn't science fun, kids? :lol:

Edited February 23, 2016 by plasticWerks_JL

[marvin20]

Instead of wasting your scrap plastic which can be rather expensive, why not pick up some plastic spoons and use those instead? They are cheap and can be purchased in bags of 50 or 100 at your local dollar store.

[ChernayaAkula]

^ Nice! And with appropriate labelling you could even make your own paint swatch, tailor-made to the colours you actually use.

[JackMan]

... You have to build up light coats of it over a primer coat (their black base primer is excellent!).

Hi Mike,

Can I know how long you had to wait for the primer coat to dry before spraying the actual color? Thanks in advance

[Lancer512]

^ Nice! And with appropriate labelling you could even make your own paint swatch, tailor-made to the colours you actually use.

That's what I actually did after realizing that Vallejo changed the shade of their colors and/or FS numbers, but kept the numbers on the bottles. But I've used blank plastic cards instead.

Having your own paint swatch is really useful. Especially when you are custom mixing some shades you can compare them how they would look like together.

What I did not expect was that each manufacturer produces a different shade of FS36118 Gunship Grey. Just because they write FS36118 on the bottle, does not mean that is what you get. Also, no single paint swatch shown here has a 100% substitute from another manufaturer.

Also watch out if you are using cross-reference tables:

Edited February 23, 2016 by Lancer512

[ChernayaAkula]

Jolly nice work!

[plasticWerks_JL]

Just in case anyone's interested, here are the results of my Acryl vs Model Air shoot-out:

(Note: I like to source my paint locally, and these are the acrylics available at my LHS, aside from Tamiya, which doesn't have FS colo... yada yada...someday maybe I can finally try this Gunze everyone's going on about.)

I laid down a coat of Tamiya XF-24 (Dark Grey), then Vallejo and MM Light Grey, all with at least 24 hours of drying time between coats, Vallejo was thinned with 91% ISO and distilled water, with a drop of Vallejo Flow Improver; MM was thinned with Testors Acrylic Thinner and a drop of the Flow Improver as well. First off, Vallejo's Light Grey is way closer in shade to Tamiya's Dark Grey; could figure that one out. The Vallejo sprays so much nicer with no clogging, and a relatively smooth result. The MM is fussy, will dry at the tip if it sits too long, and produces a slightly rougher finish. A big HOWEVER: after drying for several days, the MM paint is rock-solid. The Vallejo still feels a bit tacky to the touch, but I was able to polish it with a fabric coffee filter and smooth it out. The MM paint is bone dry and the roughness disappears after the same polishing. Neither lifted with poster putty, Tamiya tape, or blue painters tape. Vallejo cleans up easy with 91% ISO, but the MM just clumps up in the paint cup. I find diluted Simple Green cleaner works best for cleaning up Acryl, I'll just hope it's safe for my airbrush.

Pic is below, but my conclusion for now is that the results of the MM paint make it worth the bit of hassle it is to apply, so I'll keep on keepin' on, but Tamiya under Vallejo paint seems to alleviate the adhesion issues and may get some more game time through my airbrush in the near future.

Hope this helps someone in the future, thanks for looking.

[JackMan]

The Vallejo still feels a bit tacky to the touch

You could try Vallejo Primer rather than Tamiya as a base coat.

[plasticWerks_JL]

You could try Vallejo Primer rather than Tamiya as a base coat.

I do have some, so I'll give it a try. My first test of just the primer peeled up with tape.

[JackMan]

I do have some, so I'll give it a try. My first test of just the primer peeled up with tape.

These videos may help:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vallejo+primer

These paints are new to me & are purported to be easier to use. I've been trying to educate myself on Vallejo paints and have been looking at these videos. HTH.

[Lancer512]

The drawback with the Vallejo primer is that is it a "Polyurethane" primer. It takes a few days to fully cure. If you try to sand it before it is fully cured, you'll end up with the primer rolling up in chunks. Thsi is not the case with Tamiya paints as a primer or Stynylrez.

[Tgoetz]

In a previous post someone mentioned using Tamiya XF-19 as a primer. How is primer different than paint?

[Lancer512]

Priming with paint is simply for detecting any flaws on your model after sanding. Paint does not fill any scratches, while primers will fill up those blemishes to a certain degree.

As alcohol based acrylics (Tamiya) adhere to plastic better than water based acrylics (Vallejo), you can save yourself the step of priming the model with a special primer if you are happy with it and just keep going and paint the complete model with that paint. As I wrote, Vallejo is very fragile without something else between the plastic and the paint.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Lancer512