Comparison of Black basing vs. Pre-shading

[Justicebringer]

Chris makes some good points in his video. Figured I'd share it with the forums as I happen to agree with him.

Enjoy

[jinmmydel]

The best part is he disproves the "black basing takes too long" baloney that some people (including some YouTubers) are going on about. Not that I can see why speed over quality is something to aim for...

He hits the nail on the head at the end though...yeah...pre-shading is visually interesting, but not realistic.

[Justicebringer]

Agreed and for a returning noob like myself its an easier process that is more efficient.

[breadneck]

Very interesting..

[Lancer512]

He is biassed. At 1:59 he sais it before he even started!

I nmy opinion, preshading or black basing can never be used alone. It needs another coat of postshading to look good.

[Justicebringer]

He is biassed. At 1:59 he sais it before he even started!

I nmy opinion, preshading or black basing can never be used alone. It needs another coat of postshading to look good.

Well, you can be biased and still be right. You honestly hit the nail on the head though, it all comes down to opinion. That being said, black basing gets a lot of detractors stating that it takes too long. This just simply isnt true.

[chuck540z3]

Not a fair comparison at all. Excluding the time factor, which never bothers me anyway, why didn't he spray a marbled look of black paint onto the grey wing, just like he sprayed a marbled look of grey paint on the black wing? This is a comparison of traditional pre-shading of panel lines with black paint vs. the so-called black basing technique that creates a mottled look.

A true comparison would be to spray a marbled look of black paint on a grey wing with no panel line pre-shading, vs what he did on the black wing. I bet it would look very similar. Further, you can go directly to painting a black marbled look on unpainted grey plastic, followed by grey paint, for essentially 1 1/2 coats of paint, which takes even less time- and way less paint. Using the black-basing method, you need 2 1/2 coats of paint to get the same look, which takes more time and more paint.

I know the black basing painting method is really sexy these days as though it was something totally new, but it really isn't. What is new is that people are getting tired of seeing zebra striped models that look like they were plaid due to strong pre-shading of panel lines. If you want to get away from that look, stop pre-shading panel lines and start painting a dark marbled look instead!

[Exhausted]

Watching now. Why does Becker Modeling disable comments for a video like this? Are there deep rifts between preshaders and black basers? It seems possible but mundane :)/>

From now on I'm definitely going to attempt the marbling technique. This guy's work looks awesome.

He hits the nail on the head at the end though...yeah...pre-shading is visually interesting, but not realistic.

True. He hits the nail on the head when he says "contrast and preshading wins competitions but it doesn't look realistic." Most of the time the preshading doesn't do the aircraft justice.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Exhausted

[plasticWerks_JL]

Watching now. Why does Becker Modeling disable comments for a video like this? Are there deep rifts between preshaders and black basers?

This should be the plot of the inevitable gritty reboot of West Side Story.

[jinmmydel]

What the flipping heck does it matter if black basing is new or 100 years old? In fact, I've not seen anyone say it was new, or try to pretend they invented it. Doogs' Models started doing it a while back, and having close to 11,000 followers, I guess it kinda caught on.

It's a better way to realistic tonal variation while avoiding the Burberry scarf look. Now, if you want your model to look like a chessboard more power to you.

There's a VERY DISTINCT reason why you don't marble over grey primer that has been touched on many times; you don't have the "cover the grey" problem, and you use less paint. I just painted an entire 1/48 F-15 with a tattoo ink cup full of paint. Now, I have no aversion to buying more paint, but I also don't need to waste it just because I can.

Oh and yes, there is a big war apparently...because this video, as I understand it, was in response to Phil Flory whining about it on his YouTube channel who, BTW, say's some very ridiculous stuff in his videos, and also doesn't allow comments.

At the end of the way do what you want, pre-shade, black base, use salt technique over everything even if it's completely inappropriate. Whatever works for you and makes you happy. Sheesh.

[galileo1]

That's an interesting observation, Chuck. Never thought about the other way around. Need to try it at some point.

Rob

[Exhausted]

this video, as I understand it, was in response to Phil Flory whining about it on his YouTube channel who, BTW, say's some very ridiculous stuff in his videos, and also doesn't allow comments.

At the end of the way do what you want, pre-shade, black base, use salt technique over everything even if it's completely inappropriate. Whatever works for you and makes you happy. Sheesh.

I respect Flory's input as well. I don't see why we shouldn't have more tools in the box for when the time comes. The one that didn't work for me was the salt technique because I couldn't get rid of all the salt under the paint. That was 4 years ago though.

[chuck540z3]

It's a better way to realistic tonal variation while avoiding the Burberry scarf look. Now, if you want your model to look like a chessboard more power to you.

There's a VERY DISTINCT reason why you don't marble over grey primer that has been touched on many times; you don't have the "cover the grey" problem, and you use less paint. I just painted an entire 1/48 F-15 with a tattoo ink cup full of paint. Now, I have no aversion to buying more paint, but I also don't need to waste it just because I can.

Hey Jim,

A few questions:

Why do you have use the black basing method in order to avoid the "Burberry scarf look"? Who is forcing anyone to pre-shade panel lines if they choose to not black base? Why not just put down a marbled look using black paint on grey instead? You don't have to do one or the other.

What is the "cover the grey" problem when you are painting grey in the first place, as used in this very video? When I paint a grey aircraft, I use a thin coat of the very grey I need as a final coat as my primer coat, and I only do that to check for flaws. With MM enamels, I have never had adhesion issues, so a true primer is unnecessary.

[Darren Roberts]

I'll really add fuel to the fire. Neither technique is the best for a realistic finish. If you truly want a realistic finish, you do was actually happens on a real airplane. You start with the base coat, get it dirty, and then start lightening areas up to get tonal variation. Both of the techniques shown give a nice artistic representation, but not a realistic one.

[chuck540z3]

I'll really add fuel to the fire. Neither technique is the best for a realistic finish. If you truly want a realistic finish, you do was actually happens on a real airplane. You start with the base coat, get it dirty, and then start lightening areas up to get tonal variation. Both of the techniques shown give a nice artistic representation, but not a realistic one.

I think ALL techniques can be very realistic if they are done correctly and don't go overboard, so no one weathering technique is correct or wrong.

[vince14]

Meh. I got to the end and both wings looked just about the same to me...

[Don]

Meh. I got to the end and both wings looked just about the same to me...

I feel kinda the same. Certainly nothing earth shattering to me personally. But its a tool in the tool box and you can never have enough of those.

P.S. "Justicebringer"...nice avatar ;)

Edited February 20, 2016 by Don

[toadwbg]

I'll really add fuel to the fire. Neither technique is the best for a realistic finish. If you truly want a realistic finish, you do was actually happens on a real airplane. You start with the base coat, get it dirty, and then start lightening areas up to get tonal variation. Both of the techniques shown give a nice artistic representation, but not a realistic one.

Realism vs. Art is yet another question for discussion over beer

[Mfezi]

I couldn't help but feel this is like arguing whether it is better to have a screwdriver or a wrench in your toolbox...

[plasticWerks_JL]

I couldn't help but feel this is like arguing whether it is better to have a screwdriver or a wrench in your toolbox...

You too? Seems to me it's a topic that doesn't have a "right" answer.

As noted above, it seems like he really talks up the black basing and slams the preshading at every turn, and doesn't come across as objective at all. Maybe the preshading would've looked a bit better if he didn't blast every panel with half-inch wide, death-black paint, but that's just my humble opinion.

Can't we at least agree that it's disingenuous to write off a technique because it's used improperly?

[chuck540z3]

You too? Seems to me it's a topic that doesn't have a "right" answer.

As noted above, it seems like he really talks up the black basing and slams the preshading at every turn, and doesn't come across as objective at all. Maybe the preshading would've looked a bit better if he didn't blast every panel with half-inch wide, death-black paint, but that's just my humble opinion.

Can't we at least agree that it's disingenuous to write off a technique because it's used improperly?

What I don't get, which I mention above, is why do all proponents of black basing (BB) assume that if you don't use this method, you MUST pre-shade every panel line instead? Very narrow minded, to enhance their view that the BB method is superior and if you don't use it, you must be painting plaid stripes. As I also mention above, all methods of adding tonal variation to the final paint finish have their place and no method is wrong, including pre-shading some panel lines that stick out on the real aircraft, like maybe this example:

Edited February 20, 2016 by chuck540z3

[Exhausted]

Well, doesn't it just depend on the aircraft?

[Lancer512]

As noted above, it seems like he really talks up the black basing and slams the preshading at every turn, and doesn't come across as objective at all. Maybe the preshading would've looked a bit better if he didn't blast every panel with half-inch wide, death-black paint, but that's just my humble opinion.

Can't we at least agree that it's disingenuous to write off a technique because it's used improperly?

That was my impression, too. The preshading looks rather poorly done.

It really depends what you are trying to achieve with the preshading. Both methods certaninly are valid and have their uses.

But as I stated above, it would need further highlighting for fading the panels, as any method of preshading can only darken the shade of the original color.

I am eager to try the "marbling" effect on an F-14, as compared to the salt method. BTW: Did we just find another term there?

[Darren Roberts]

What I don't get, which I mention above, is why do all proponents of black basing (BB) assume that if you don't use this method, you MUST pre-shade every panel line instead? Very narrow minded, to enhance their view that the BB method is superior and if you don't use it, you must be painting plaid stripes. As I also mention above, all methods of adding tonal variation to the final paint finish have their place and no method is wrong, including pre-shading some panel lines that stick out on the real aircraft, like maybe this example:

Interesting picture. This may sound crazy, but I'd love to know what time of day and the atmospheric conditions at the time of the photo. I ask that only because I've seen aircraft look like that in the morning when condensation accents the panel lines, but later in the day when the airframe heats up, those lines are gone. More often than not, aircraft don't get those defined lines, unless maybe corrosion control has been done. Greek jets, for some reason, seem to get closest to the "accented panel line" effect than any other jets I've seen.

[chuck540z3]

Interesting picture. This may sound crazy, but I'd love to know what time of day and the atmospheric conditions at the time of the photo. I ask that only because I've seen aircraft look like that in the morning when condensation accents the panel lines, but later in the day when the airframe heats up, those lines are gone. More often than not, aircraft don't get those defined lines, unless maybe corrosion control has been done. Greek jets, for some reason, seem to get closest to the "accented panel line" effect than any other jets I've seen.

These pics were all taken by Scott Wilson when he was stationed at Ramstein AB in Germany during the early 80's. Scott supplied me with these pics to help me replicate the weathering pattern of tired looking Phantoms when I was building my F-4E, which is an aircraft with special markings for "Tactical Air Meet" in 1980. The dark lines you see here and there are very likely extra paint for corrosion control and according to Scott, the paint rarely matched- hence the striped pattern along panel lines.

Here's a few more:

And here is how I tried to replicate this look. Look Ma, no Black Basing!.....

Edited February 20, 2016 by chuck540z3