Jinxter13 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Have you ever had that urge to go against the grain and cheat, even knowing what you're doing isn't moral, fair, or in no ones interest but your own. Well that stubborn honest streak won again; y 'see I was looking for refs for a particular build I'd like to do and will probably do it, if I live long enough...so many models and sooooo little time; anyway I saw pics of decals for several birds that seem to be OOP the decals not the birds, however still available in that other scale, the one for the so called gentlemen :whistle:/> , and it occurred to me that I have a decent printer why not just copy'em and bump'em up to 48th. that's when it hit, that banging inside my head saying Oh no ya don't, the guy that drew them won't get any compensation, and that would be stealing, no matter how I look at it. So here I am stuck hoping and that one of the folks who do decals when get a wild hair and do sheets with the units I'd like on 'em and in the PROPER scale. ....honesty is the best policy, ya don't feel bad cuz ya done something you know isn't right, or get beatdown by your conscience if ya got one. Happy modeling Edited March 4, 2016 by #1 Greywolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 ...you could buy them and then size them up once you've purchased them.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonzalo Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Why do you hate yourself? What you did was very honest. You should be proud of yourself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 It is legal to make copies for yourself. It isn't legal to make copies and sell them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
achterkirch Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 If you feel that bad about it you could always try asking the maker of it's ok to scale them up for your personal use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) It is legal to make copies for yourself. It isn't legal to make copies and sell them. That may be legal, but what about the guys, like Brian P, Jmel, Dave R, Creighton H., TwoBobs, who thru diligence, and hard work, created the original, they're being cheated out of what should be morally theirs. I can't tell others how to get their builds finished decal wise, but I'll just buck up and keep on wishin and hopin'. Good things do sometimes come to those who wait, that is have the patience to, at least I don't have to wonder or worry what they would think if they only knew B) .Imagine posting pix of a build here and one of them sees and realizes hey I did that aircraft, missile, whatever in those very markings, but I never did it that scale!, I don't even filch pix posted here, I have been lucky and asked and given permission to copy a few for my desktop or personal use only. Edited March 4, 2016 by #1 Greywolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 That may be legal, but what about the guys, like Brian P, Jmel, Dave R, Creighton H., TwoBobs, who thru diligence, and hard work, created the original, they're being cheated out of what should be morally theirs. I can't tell others how to get their builds finished decal wise, but I'll just buck up and keep on wishin and hopin'. Good things do sometimes come to those who wait, that is have the patience to, at least I don't have to wonder or worry what they would think if they only knew B)/> .Imagine posting pix of a build here and one of them sees and realizes hey I did that aircraft, missile, whatever in those very markings, but I never did it that scale!, I don't even filch pix posted here, I have been lucky and asked and given permission to copy a few for my desktop or personal use only. If you buy the 1/72 decal sheet you aren't cheating them out of anything. I asked Experts Choice once if hey ever planned on doing one of their sheets in 1/48. He suggested I buy the 1/72 sheet and scale if up and print it on my own computer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 It is legal to make copies for yourself. It isn't legal to make copies and sell them. Actually that's not legal either, it's any reproduction not just reproduction for profit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 Actually that's not legal either, it's any reproduction not just reproduction for profit. That's like the warning at the beginning of any DVD you buy legally1 these days. It says piracy is not a victimless crime...copying decals and scaling up would be piracy if I understand it correctly. 1. I don't know about any place else, but in almost any shopping center parking lot here...there are at times up to 3 guys selling DVD movies....and they ain't in the box like in Wally World either <_< . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Well, for one thing you're not making true copies; you'd be using them as the basis to create something that currently does not exist commercially, right? And if it's a sheet from any of the folks on here I'm sure you could ask them permission to resize it on your own for your own non-commercial use.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scapilot Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I just find a scheme I want, get good reference pictures and have the stuff I need drawn and printed. It's a win win. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scotthldr Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Well, for one thing you're not making true copies; you'd be using them as the basis to create something that currently does not exist commercially, right? And if it's a sheet from any of the folks on here I'm sure you could ask them permission to resize it on your own for your own non-commercial use.... That's my view on it as well, if the decal manufacturer is that bothered they should've printed the sheet in all scales to start with. However I doubt any of the reputable manufacturers would be bothered anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lancer512 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) If you actually own that decal sheet in a different scale and resized it for your own use, I'ld say it is okay. Just think back a few years when everybody was copying music tracks from vinyl onto tapes for your walkman or car stero system. IMHO this is exactly the same. Edited March 4, 2016 by Lancer512 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Personally, I find it easier to just click on "Add to Cart" than go through all the software and printing hassles. :rolleyes:/> OOP is another story..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I can understand both side of this argument but I generally tend to agree with not doing it. But I have access to vector drawing programs so I generally can draw something if I need a decal so that may be skewing my outlook. If I didn't, I can't say that I'd NEVER copy a decal. Besides that, scaling up or down a sheet by scanning it isn't going to give you great results anyway. It's going to pixilate quite a bit and you may not be happy with the results. I think you're doing the right thing, and in the end, that's all that counts. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Buy the decal sheet, scale it up, and use it as a template for paint masks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 You could always ask the maker after buying the smaller sheet.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 If you own a sheet in one scale that is not available in the other scale(s), either because it's OOP or was never produced, AND it is only for your own sole use (you're not selling copies) then I don't see a problem. If however you own a 72nd sheet and don't want to pay for an available 48th sheet (as an example) then IMO you are 'cheating' by denying the maker of the available 48th sheet a legitimate sale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Actually that's not legal either, it's any reproduction not just reproduction for profit. No, reproduction for your own use is legal, as long as you are making a copy of something that you purchased, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
achterkirch Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Maybe we could have some manufactures chime in here and see what they think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmel Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) I think this is one of those cases where there is the law, and what is acceptable, and what is moral. Decal artwork is copyrighted. Reproducing it----even without the purpose of commercial gain----is a violation of copyright. That is the law. If you buy the 72nd version, and the 48th version isn't available, whether sold out or never created, and I can only speak for myself, I really couldn't care less. The caveat, however, is that you aren't going to be able to reproduce it to nearly the quality of a true 48th decal printed by Cartograf. Personally speaking, Clif, you're a stand-up guy and a true gentleman, but I don't think you should feel bad about using the 72nd sheet as a guide for your own 48th markings. Jake Edited March 5, 2016 by jmel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Maybe we could have some manufactures chime in here and see what they think? exactly my though as i was reading down the replies of this thread... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RCAFFAN Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Decal artwork is copyrighted. Reproducing it----even without the purpose of commercial gain----is a violation of copyright. That is the law. Jake Just because someone claims copyright on their product doesn't make it so...There is a strong legal arguement than because the decal is just a scale copy of someone else's original work that there is no copyright for the decal maker at all as to the decal. Could someone make a scale decal of the Mona Lisa (just used as a well known piece of art as any copyright would probably have lapsed by now) and by doing so claim copyright on the Mona Lisa. Not a chance. Also what about the decal makers that use a proprietary name (such as an Airline) without permission (some decal makers get permission but most don't). How can they claim copyright on something they had no right to in the first place? It is not a clear cut area at all but there is certainly not enough money involved in aftermarket decals to go to court after so nobody challenges this stuff (other than the odd nasty letter from a lawyer for a cheap threat). Also (unless it has changed since I retired) there is a legal exemption for personal use photocopies (I've personally read the Canadian legislation in this regard in the past) as I'm sure most libraries are not prepared to abet breech of copyright by putting photocopiers on their property. Regardless, you certainly are not ripping off a decal maker if you buy their sheet in a scale available (they get paid for their work) and then use this for your personal use.... Edited March 5, 2016 by RCAFFAN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Personal use = no problems Honestly, there's 5-6 moral, ethical, or legal dilemmas most of us encounter every day. This one is pretty low on the list even if you were wrong about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 I'm probably being seen as a dumb@ss, but I just don't see it as being OK...no matter how some Philadelphia attorney may argue that I'm not doing anything wrong...and a technicality grants me permission...in my head and heart it ain't kosher, cool. I may hate myself now, but tomorrow I'll feel just fine knowing I didn't turn gray something that should be B/W. I like that old adage give'em an inch, and the next time you look they're a mile down the road. I hope you get my drift. I can always downscale and do 72nd if I like a particular plane so much that I want a scale model of it, for the time being I'm in La La land with 48th :) B) . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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