Micro Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Gents, here's a vid of flight deck ops on the Big E back in the day.My question is, at 2:27, right after the Tomcat squats, you see an elongated "thing" sitting behind the actual shuttle. I've seen this often in old clips, but this "thing" is now gone from current decks. What is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xFpHCL2Ep4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wardog Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Gents, here's a vid of flight deck ops on the Big E back in the day.My question is, at 2:27, right after the Tomcat squats, you see an elongated "thing" sitting behind the actual shuttle. I've seen this often in old clips, but this "thing" is now gone from current decks. What is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xFpHCL2Ep4 I believe It's called a hold-back bar. If I'm not mistaken they are designed to break loose at a certain point, but don't quote me on that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Micro Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 I believe It's called a hold-back bar. If I'm not mistaken they are designed to break loose at a certain point, but don't quote me on that. Thanks, Wardog. I'm actually talking about the long metal plates that seem to mounted to the deck. About 10 feet or so long and 4-6 inches high. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yardbird78 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Just guessing, but it looks like some kind of alignment jig to make sure the plane is exactly where it is supposed to be as it taxis up to the catapult shuttle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Micro Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 It's interesting you say that because I watched the vid a few more times. It looks like the launch bar doesn't quite line up with the "jig" and is riding on top of it. The green shirt then grabs the hold back and seems to use it to guide the launch bar down into the track. Once the launch bar does fall into the track, the green shirt releases the holdback. We could be way off, but i'm glad with the theory! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Yes, that's a holdback fitting. In the olden days, cables would be lashed to the cat shuttle in front of the where you saw the launch bar drop to engage the cat ( and then to hooks underneath the wings or fuselage).The holdback fitting was then attached to a keel fitting, usually under the aft fuselage. That would be the only thing holding the plane back, even at max thrust. The jet would to max, they fire the cat, and a specially machined metal fitting ( looked like a dumbbell ), would fail and allow the plane to go down the catapult. That A-3 in the video used exactly that way to get off the cats. The E-1B, S-2, A-3, A-4, to name a few, used that method. The newer birds, Tomcat, A-6, A-7, F/A-18,E-2 etc use the launch bar method your vid describes. Great vid, brought back many memories! Many Thanks!! Afoxbat, NavAir (ret) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Micro Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 AH! The hold back FITTING! That makes so much sense!. Thanks, Foxbat. That explains why it is no longer seen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afoxbat Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 No prob, Micro! Your vid really brought back some damn fine memories. I'm just an old sailor now with memories like the one you just provided me. I salute you! Again, Many THANKS, My best, Afoxbat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Micro Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 I salute you, buddy! Thank you for your service. Sincerely. Seems like you had some good times. I envy you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomthegrom Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) I have always wondered, with a holdback bolt failing so the aircraft launches, how do you keep track of the bolt? It always sounded like a big FOD risk to me! On a side note, cool footage f the f-14 with Phoenix fairings installed but no pallets. Edited March 7, 2016 by tomthegrom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin K Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I have always wondered, with a holdback bolt failing so the aircraft launches, how do you keep track of the bolt? It always sounded like a big FOD risk to me! On a side note, cool footage f the f-14 with Phoenix fairings installed but no pallets. Better photo of it here. It looks to be an alignment device for aircraft. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/USS_Saratoga_%28CVA-60%29%2C_F-14_on_catapult.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I don't know about the "pure" bolt days, but, I do know about the days when the bolt was part of the strap. In those days, the strap stayed attached to the deck, and a man had to pull it aft and out of the notch next to the Cat Track. The "designed fail" part of it was attached to the aircraft end. I bet modern crewman are very glad they don't have to go forward and bring back the used bridles and un-hook used holdback cables anymore. Don't modern used bolt halves ride back with the Cat Shuttle, to be picked out by a crewman,,,,or are they flung forward when the shuttle stops at that fore end of the deck? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I have half of the bolt from my C-2 launch. That half stayed with the airplane. I asked one of the crew members for it. I assume the other half stays back on the boat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Hmm, I have a slight thread hijack question here. All of us Navair fans are familiar with the two different flight deck launch "ballets", we've seen the Tomcats nose into the shuttle, the hold back runner shake the hold back bar, and then the pressure run up on the Cat, and the rise in engine speed, then "boom" the breaking of the bolt and the rush down the deck. Older fans remember the Bridle and Cable dance, and the tensioning of the Cat against the Bridle and Hold back Cables, then the same woooosh. What in the world was the ballet for the SATS and the JATO launchs, say of the Skyhawks at Chu Lai? JATO I can guess at,,,,at some percentage of power, the Rockets are lit off as you advance power, and then you pop into the air. But with SATS,,,,,there is no place to attach the hold back cable (visions of the PSP being pulled up come to mind, lol) Was that all done with timing? The Jarhead in charge of the 2 J-79s had to hit the clutch at the same time as the Scooter powered up the J-65 or J-52 and released his wheel brakes?? Geez that combo must have roared. And where did the Red Sled go to? (again, a convo comes to mind,,,,,"I was in the Navy and had to go forward and drag back the Bridles" "Pfft, I was in the Corps, and had to go and find and drag back the Red Sled") Edited March 7, 2016 by Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Quick correction to the above...the box was a modification made to accept the new nose-tow aircraft on older catapults. Nose-tow use the hold back bar (half the dumbbell stays in the bar, the other half stays with the plane) which goes into a "snubber" that also absorbs the shock/vibrations; previous bridle aircraft use the hold back strap on the keel, which attaches to the deck behind the catapult slot (you can see it just behind the left nose wheel in the pic). So, the box is the snubber added to older cats. Once the cats were updated, the snubber gear was placed in the deck. I think Vinson was the last carrier to be equipped with the bridle holdback system. HTH Spongebob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nfiler Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Here is what the holdback fitting looks like. They were color coded for different breaking strengths. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Were they varied for load on aircraft types or was a single aircraft type always launched with just one holdback type regardless of load? E.g, were Phantoms always launched with one color regardless of load or weapons fit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Yes...I believe the color coding is thrust based since "tension" is 5000lbs of force for all aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Were they varied for load on aircraft types or was a single aircraft type always launched with just one holdback type regardless of load? E.g, were Phantoms always launched with one color regardless of load or weapons fit? Yes...I believe the color coding is thrust based since "tension" is 5000lbs of force for all aircraft. Although the catapult stroke was set for weight, Spongebob is correct. Weight didn't matter until the holdback broke. Its strength was based on tension and the particular airplane's max thrust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Here is what the holdback fitting looks like. They were color coded for different breaking strengths. This S-3 holdback fitting looked similar, but more barbell shaped and it was purple. If we took a VIP or trooper flying with us, always asked the deck crew to keep the remaining part of the fitting as a souvenir. Cheers Collin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishthe47guy Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Anyone have an NSN for one of those? I would imagine a typical 7-9 month cruise would go through thousands of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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