Alamos on Iranian tomcats?

[Pep]

Just ran into this pic while browsing.

can anyone confirm is this is in fact real?

[Pep]

looks like google answered my question

[KursadA]

Physically carrying the missile on an aircraft is something, successfully firing and guiding it is something else. Building an adaptor to physically carry the R-27 on the Tomcat would be trivial sheet-metal work. Getting the electronics to work is the tricky part.

I am guessing that interfacing a Russian semi-active radar guided missile to the F-14 fire control system and radar would take a significant effort of engineering; particularly with no cooperation from the designer of the radar. Iran has demonstrated fairly advanced electronics design capabilities; but I would be very, very surprised if they actually got it to work. My guess is that they explored doing this at some point; but could not go very far - so far IRIAF Tomcats have never been seen with anything other than US missiles (or copies) in operational setting.

[Pep]

I think you are right Kursad, besides if it would have worked they would have advertised the hell out of it.

still makes an interesting modeling subject.

[ThudDriver]

I remember many years ago when Iranian Cats were carrying US "Hawk" surface to air missiles on the glove pylons.. Yet another Iranian concoction.

Sure looked weird !

Frank

[MoFo]

Interesting load-out on the Phantom, too - full exhibition of indigenous Iranian ordnance. Zoobin and Qadr in front, Quassed(?) on the inboard pylons. Ghader on the outboard pylons. And what's that silver drop-tank-like thing? It has a very odd nose cone.

[TomCooper]

Well, actually, it turned out the R-27R 'works' on F-14. After some 'fine-tunning' of the AWG-9 (i.e. a specific part of it), of course.

Sure, it remained a one-off (just like a similar project related to mating R-73s to F-14s). I.e. no 'fleet-wide' adaptation took place - for precisely the same reason like usually: lack of funding, Russian embargo, etc...

AIM-23C Sejjil (official designation of that 'Hawk on F-14') and that... sigh... always forgeting the designation of AIM-54As reworked and upgraded by Iranians... won the day and are in service instead.

And what's that silver drop-tank-like thing? It has a very odd nose cone.

Beech 1080 IFR-pod. Except for the No'or (aka C-802K anti-ship missile), was the only piece of equipment put on display around that Rhino, that actually entered operational service.

Resulting variant is (officially) designated KF-4E in IRIAF service (there are some 4-5 of them in total).

Edited March 10, 2016 by TomCooper

[Gunny]

I would not put anything past the Iranians. They have some talented engineers. That said, they would have to be talented to keep all of the equipment purchased from the USA before their "Revolution" & subsequent sanctions placed on them by the U.S.A. I opine that they have reverse engineered many parts & made tooling to manufacture spare parts to keep all those birds flying the last 36 + years. So many countries have done/still do the same & that includes the US. There was also speculation that they were/are getting parts from their arch nemesis Israel & from other Middle Eastern countries that flew/fly the Phantom.

As far as the Russian designed missile on the Tomcat, it's fair to say that Russia might have helped them engineer some sort of hybrid US/Russian missile pairing with the radar & that's even if the original US radars are still installed. I don't know which US made avionics & electronics were delivered in the aircraft after Iranian purchase. Nothing new. Look at all of the US designed stuff that the former USSR & Russians ripped off from the US during the Cold War. So many of the former Soviet aircraft looked/look much like the US aircraft. The Chinese have much of our tech as well that they received via espionage.

[TomCooper]

In chronological order:

- For much of the 1980s, Iranians had no 'spare problem' as such (i.e. they didn't lack spares), but there was simply a post-'revolutionary' chaos. Plenty of experienced technicians and pilots left the service; there were sit-in strikes by ground crews; pilots bared from even entering bases; some arrested, others forced to flee etc. Their entire support infra-structure collapsed in 1979, and by 1980, nobody knew what spares were stored in what place.

- That's why they began smuggling spares from abroad. That's where dozens of arms dealers from Israel - but not only Israel; UK, Greece, South Korea, Singapore etc. - came into game.

- That all said, once the support infra-structure was re-established/reconstructed (say 1984-1985), they launched some limited production of simplier spares at home. That was no big deal, because they've got the necessary tooling, know-how etc. already back in the 1970s.

- So it happened that in the course of negotiations for that famed 'Iran-Contra' affair, Iranians were actually not demanding spares, but requested upgrade kits and replacement weapons.

- Stories about Soviets helping out, Iranians delivering one F-14 to the USSR etc. are simply science fiction. Not only that Iranians never requested any such help, but the Soviets couldn't provide it even if they would've been asked to do so. At least as importantly: Iranians never left any Soviets even close to their F-5s, not to talk about F-14s.

- That said, one Iranian F-14-pilot did try to defect - but to Iraq. He was shot down by two Iraqi MiG-23MLs after crossing the border. The Tomcat crashed, and was so destroyed that Iraqis couldn't extract more intel out of it, but to collect few pieces and show them to CYA-contacts (in Baghdad) for checks where are these coming from. Later the same year (1986), there was a conference at Pentagon that drew a clear conclusion: Iranians have launched domestic production of some spares for their F-14s.

- Once the war with Iraq was over, Iran could barely afford having an air force, not to talk about maintaing F-14s. So, much of the fleet fell in disrepair. This was 'corrected' only in late 2000s, when Tehran granted US$3 billion for overhaul of the entire fleet and some upgrades, plus projects related to small-scale production of certain 'indigenous' weapons (like Fatter, Sejjil and similar AAMs).

- Nowadays, they have a few companies at home, and few abroad, manufacturing spares for their F-14s. There is a project for replacing avionics with much of Chinese-made stuff, but as so often: there's no money (this time because of all the Iranian support for Assadist regime in syria), and thus the sole F-14AM (3-6045) is so far the only Iranian Tomcat upgraded in any kind of meaningful fashion.

For those who have doubts about Iranian capability to keep their F-14s operational, indeed to utilize them effectivelly in combat... well, have a look at the following documentary (made by an independent producer from Tehran, i.e. not by the regime or something of that kind):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sya-9XDpfiM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJ1cdMHzKM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNmgR_zcTNI

(These are 3 out of a total of 8 episodes; sadly, the other 5 were never translated to English.)

[habu2]

I would not put anything past the Iranians. They have some talented engineers.

Well, considering many if not most of them were educated in US universities, it should be no surprise. When I was in school more than half of my engineering classmates were non-US citizens, including many from Iran. Things got tense during the hostage crisis, lots of confrontations in the hallways.

[11bee]

Well, considering many if not most of them were educated in US universities, it should be no surprise. When I was in school more than half of my engineering classmates were non-US citizens, including many from Iran. Things got tense during the hostage crisis, lots of confrontations in the hallways.

Lol, half the engineering students in Boston in the early 80's were Iranians. Mostly good folk, they wanted nothing to do with going home.

[mike_espo]

Bloody shame. Imperial Iran was an awesome country and reliable ally before the barbarians took over.

I remember well how the barbarian thugs took over our embassy. Cowardly bums.

Edited March 13, 2016 by mike_espo

[bushande]

- ...... and thus the sole F-14AM (3-6045) is so far the only Iranian Tomcat upgraded in any kind of meaningful fashion.

Hey Tom, seems the second Baba'ee Upgrade is just about to be done (no closer intel on the serial though):

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/6/9/5/2799596.jpg

Edited April 4, 2016 by bushande

[TomCooper]

Sorry, but nope: that's 'just' a standard F-14A, with... well, unusual camo.

3-6049 remains the only F-14AM in service.

[bushande]

Hey Tom,

thanks for the clarification.

Don't want to sound too bold but could I ask, how you can be sure this is not another AM?

Are there any visible indicators on the airframe that lead you to the conclusion or is it one of your sources? I'm just being curious.

It's somewhat peculiar, that they covered the serial again.

Love that sexy skunk stripe!

Edited April 5, 2016 by bushande

[Dmanton300]

Bloody shame. Imperial Iran was an awesome country and reliable ally before the barbarians took over.

I remember well how the barbarian thugs took over our embassy. Cowardly bums.

Bull. Imperial Iran was an oppressive totalitarian regime created by the illegal overthrow of a democratically elected leadership in 1953 ably assisted by British and US interests. It was no better and likely worse than the regime that replaced it in 1979,the groundwork for which was laid by that coup in 1953. The Shah was little more than a puppet dictator installed by Western interests to do their bidding for their own gain. It was many things, awesome was NONE of them. The Islamic Republic may be imperfect, but it was the result of a POPULAR revolution after 30 years of oppression.

[Hajo L.]

Well, he was a bastard, but he was OUR bastard! Something you couldn´t say after 1979... ;)

HAJO

[TomCooper]

Hey Tom,

thanks for the clarification.

Don't want to sound too bold but could I ask, how you can be sure this is not another AM?

No problem: it'a first-hand source.

Re. 'visible indicators' of difference: I'm not sure if the F-14AM has finally got the HUD the IRIAF would like to install into her (the last I've got to hear of 'a little bit more' on her, and that was two years ago, the answer was negative). If yes, that would be the only one I know about.

(Except if they would be armed: the F-14AM is compatible with R-73s, for example.)

[bushande]

Thanks a lot for the reply Tom.

Appreciate the effort and the intel!

Such a pity that Iran is keeping them so secluded from us.

[Dmanton300]

Well, he was a bastard, but he was OUR bastard! Something you couldn´t say after 1979... ;)/>

HAJO

Whereas the Ayatollah was the Iranian people's bastard. I know which my inherent sense of right and wrong says was preferable in a moral sense!