TaiidanTomcat Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Since we don't need to get close and know what we're shooting at anymore, We don't need to get close to know what we are shooting at. Must be what you mean. I'm communicating with you from hundreds of miles away, yet we are not even in the same room. Well (according to him at least) my friend shot an elk from hundreds of yards away with the Do satellites in orbit need to see the target in order to guide the weapon that hits the target? Of course they do! Because Bro Science B-36 carries more bombs and has longer loitering time than the B-1. Cool so with the right gear even it could in on the CAS game just like the BONE! Edited March 11, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) are you saying you're Vietnamese and that the viet-kongs use the ov-10 Broncos to beat away USA from you country???...i really wasn't aware of that!!! Just so you are aware the democratoc government the US left in south vietnam is doing great, just like the government In iraq. Come on bro. Do you even history? We fought a whole war in Southeast asia, the punic war -- maybe you've heard of it? There are 3 things that will defeat ISIS. Ground forces. Commitment. And loads of money. Right now we are only doing one of those 3 things. Edited March 11, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Well, I had that idea already some years ago! http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=195021&view=findpost&p=1868391 HAJO I like that! Edited March 11, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 But none of those are the master of CAS the A-10 is. Duh. I thought the A-10 was perfect for these conflicts being the greatest CAS platform ever made We aren't backing off the hype train? But according to the Air Force, all of these other platforms can easily replace the A-10, be it more expensively, but none the less....... I would guess that we could do a better job if certain Puzzle Palace officials weren't still channeling their inner "President Johnson" My link Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koen L Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Do you have a source for that? I'm only asking because all the Combat Dragon aircraft were de-milled and returned to NASA. This would kinda be going around in circles if so. Don't think they ever were transfered to NASA, or maybe after they returned from the deployment to the middle east?. Here are some pics from Rota: http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Navy/North-American-Rockwell/2653291/L/&sid=c68af478ec468bae3fd9429c3c939ccc http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Navy/North-American-Rockwell/2651703/L/&sid=c68af478ec468bae3fd9429c3c939ccc They were seen at Palma de Mallorca the day after (to indicate they were eastbound). EDIT: forgot to add, they were noted at Rota again on October 20th westbound. Edited March 11, 2016 by Koen L Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Platycqb Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 There are 3 things that will defeat ISIS. Ground forces. Commitment. And loads of money. Right now we are only doing one of those 3 things. Commitment I assume? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Commitment I assume? RIght now, we're just throwing money at the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 RIght now, we're just throwing money at the problem. This whole thing reminds me of Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) be it more expensively, but none the less....... That's very relative considering that so far the US has spent 2 TRILLION dollars in Iraq. an A-10 is $4,000 less CPFH than an F-16, so you can see the difference there. If this is about money, I have an overnight solution that will save you some serious dough. I would guess that we could do a better job if certain Puzzle Palace officials weren't still channeling their inner "President Johnson" My link Nothing new under the sun. the ROE sucks. Its going to make a fine scape goat. That is important. However it just reinforces my point that its not a firepower/platform issue. Its never been firepower. I wish people got their panties in a ruffle as much about the ROE as they did the A-10 retirement. "ask any soldier and Marine here and they will tell you they are frustrated and other f-words about the ROEs" (ROEs that are set by... who?) That would be a lot more valuable. But now the A-10 is saved and we can all go back and make posters like this: But the AK is winning, and it doesn't even need to shoot at an A-10 to do it. Lots of the "ISIS is gonna crap itself when the A-10 shows up!!" Yeah that probably makes a lot of sense if your from the West. These guys don't quite have the same mentality in case you haven't noticed. its just to give us warm fuzzies, that we are going to bomb them back to the stone age before we realize they want to go back to the stone age. Mind=blown that instead of discussing the importance of ROEs we just wasted all this on saving the A-10. Troops have been saying for nearly a decade now that the ROE and EOF is a disaster and I'm not even talking about air power, it's as simple as being able to use am M-16 on a threat. Forget BRRRT can I just defend myself? Edited March 12, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Commitment I assume? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) RIght now, we're just throwing money at the problem. As opposed to thousands of 19-year old kids? That approach didn't work very well either. Since the current approach is actually showing some progress, maybe stay the course just a wee bit longer? Edited March 12, 2016 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 The Bronco is a very cost effective platform for this sort of war and if they need something faster...there is always the Mighty Tweet. The Mighty Tweet doesn't move. It stays in place, and the universe revolves around it. Regards, Murph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 the airframes in question are indeed the Combat Dragon IIs. Both articles are using old stock photos. the OV-10D+s have been quite busy on the Navy's dime... I hope the rewards justify the efforts! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 the airframes in question are indeed the Combat Dragon IIs. Both articles are using old stock photos. the OV-10D+s have been quite busy on the Navy's dime... I hope the rewards justify the efforts! Good info Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) That's very relative considering that so far the US has spent 2 TRILLION dollars in Iraq. an A-10 is $4,000 less CPFH than an F-16, so you can see the difference there. If this is about money, I have an overnight solution that will save you some serious dough. Nothing new under the sun. the ROE sucks. Its going to make a fine scape goat. That is important. However it just reinforces my point that its not a firepower/platform issue. Its never been firepower. I wish people got their panties in a ruffle as much about the ROE as they did the A-10 retirement. "ask any soldier and Marine here and they will tell you they are frustrated and other f-words about the ROEs" (ROEs that are set by... who?) That would be a lot more valuable. But now the A-10 is saved and we can all go back and make posters like this: But the AK is winning, and it doesn't even need to shoot at an A-10 to do it. Lots of the "ISIS is gonna crap itself when the A-10 shows up!!" Yeah that probably makes a lot of sense if your from the West. These guys don't quite have the same mentality in case you haven't noticed. its just to give us warm fuzzies, that we are going to bomb them back to the stone age before we realize they want to go back to the stone age. Mind=blown that instead of discussing the importance of ROEs we just wasted all this on saving the A-10. Troops have been saying for nearly a decade now that the ROE and EOF is a disaster and I'm not even talking about air power, it's as simple as being able to use am M-16 on a threat. Forget BRRRT can I just defend myself? I was there and actively involved. The ROE can be frustrating at times, but it is also there for very good reason. This isn't like any air campaign we have ever done, so the ROE has to be strict because it is difficult to identify ISIS targets from civilians, militias, and Iraqi security forces. Against a positively identified ISIS target with good information on the location of friendly forces I never had an issue getting support, but it isn't as clear as having JTACs on the ground calling for CAS. In Iraq and Syria we aren't in the fight on the ground (not like we were in OIF), and in Iraq we are fighting in support of a sovereign nation. The Iraqi military has to approve every strike, and we have to be 100% certain of the target. I am sure that frustrates pilots, it frustrated me at times but there are many factors that the pilots wouldn't be aware of. I would rather let an target go that I was 99% certain was ISIS than put bombs into an Iraqi army unit, or a militia that is also driving around in a Toyota Hilux with a machine gun in the bed. As far as the OV-10, I was in a briefing from the aviators that operated it in 2013. It is a cool platform, bringing capability like attack aviation with some additions. It can do CAS, but can also do CCA which is something most fixed wing doesn't do. Edited March 12, 2016 by nspreitler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) duplicate Edited March 12, 2016 by nspreitler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 It can do CAS, but can also do CCA which is something most fixed wing doesn't do. What's the difference? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) What's the difference? CAS is considered indirect fire and the responsibility is placed on the ground controller. CCA is considered direct fire and the responsibility is on the aircrew. http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a570047.pdf Edited March 12, 2016 by nspreitler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FM-Whip Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Bronco's are back baby! And no these are not the "Combat Dragon" aircraft from 2013. Article 1 Article 2 OV-10G Combat Dragon Alright Kittyhawk, now it's time to get off yer fool and make that OV-10 in 1/48!!!! I'm sick of seeing old Paragon sets for sale at an outrageous $125 price! Just as an added piece of info, there are indications that there's been some refitted/updated OV-1 Mohawks in covert use in the Middle East also, and not just recently. John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 *looks thread over* *leaves* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) That's very relative considering that so far the US has spent 2 TRILLION dollars in Iraq. an A-10 is $4,000 less CPFH than an F-16, so you can see the difference there. If this is about money, I have an overnight solution that will save you some serious dough. Nothing new under the sun. the ROE sucks. Its going to make a fine scape goat. That is important. However it just reinforces my point that its not a firepower/platform issue. Its never been firepower. I wish people got their panties in a ruffle as much about the ROE as they did the A-10 retirement. "ask any soldier and Marine here and they will tell you they are frustrated and other f-words about the ROEs" (ROEs that are set by... who?) That would be a lot more valuable. But now the A-10 is saved and we can all go back and make posters like this: But the AK is winning, and it doesn't even need to shoot at an A-10 to do it. Lots of the "ISIS is gonna crap itself when the A-10 shows up!!" Yeah that probably makes a lot of sense if your from the West. These guys don't quite have the same mentality in case you haven't noticed. its just to give us warm fuzzies, that we are going to bomb them back to the stone age before we realize they want to go back to the stone age. Mind=blown that instead of discussing the importance of ROEs we just wasted all this on saving the A-10. Troops have been saying for nearly a decade now that the ROE and EOF is a disaster and I'm not even talking about air power, it's as simple as being able to use am M-16 on a threat. Forget BRRRT can I just defend myself? We don't need to get close to know what we are shooting at. Must be what you mean. I'm communicating with you from hundreds of miles away, yet we are not even in the same room. Well (according to him at least) my friend shot an elk from hundreds of yards away with the Do satellites in orbit need to see the target in order to guide the weapon that hits the target? Of course they do! Because Bro Science Cool so with the right gear even it could in on the CAS game just like the BONE! There is so much here.... it's. just. scattered. everywhere. I'm sensing some good topics for Info Wars. Besides, what the Bone does isn't special -- it's just a damn weapons truck with a really expensive loiter time. For the money of just one B-1 mission we could probably requisition everything in the Commemorative Air Force, strap lasers on them, and fire JDAMS and Hellfires until our hearts are content. Hell, I would even consider recruiting Peter Jackson's help with some of his vintage WWI birds after this inspiration. It looks like the Air Force (temporarily) solved some of its F-35 budget issues by selling 300 A-10s to ISIS. ISIS is a good customer because they are willing to pay for these old worthless junkpiles that nobody could use to hurt anybody. Ha! http://www.duffelblog.com/2016/01/u-s-air-force-sells-a-10s-to-isis/ Edited March 12, 2016 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yardbird78 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Maybe we should think strategic. Are there any B-36s we can make airworthy again? There are 4 left. RB-36H at Castle AFB Museum; B-36J at SAC Museum, B-36J at Pima Air Museum and B-36J at USAF Museum, Ohio. The couldn't make the RB-36 airworthy in 1993 when they moved it from Chanute AFB, IL to Castle due to severe corrosion of the magnesium spars and other critical structures. I doubt that 23 more years of continuing corrosion has helped the situation any. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Just as an added piece of info, there are indications that there's been some refitted/updated OV-1 Mohawks in covert use in the Middle East also, and not just recently. John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) Didn't think there were any OV-1's kicking around these days. Any references you can share? Not sure what advantage an OV-1 has compared to an OV-10 (or for that matter an A-29). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 IBTL B) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 It makes sense to me to have a light attack capability for low threat environments, especially something that can operate off a short field with minimal logistical support. The Iraqis use Cessna Caravans in an attack role, and they do a pretty good job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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