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Tesla Model 3 - WOOF!!!


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Bay Area, California and living there its a great solution along with Southern California...not so much the rest of America between there and say the East Coast.

Yeah, about that...

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The national average, one-way daily commute is 25.5 minutes.

- U.S. Census Bureau 's annual American Community Survey for 2011

As of last week, there were 3.689 Superchargers and 3,689 Destination Chargers. By the end of 2017, when the Model III is available, they will have doubled the amount of Superchargers to 7,200 and tripled the number of Destination Chargers to 15,000.

Now, no one's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to go buy one of these. If you have to drive 200 miles to and from work every day, that's your problem, not ours. The majority of Americans don't have that situation, so the Model III (or something like it) makes a lot of sense.

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I don't think pure electric automobiles for everyone is the way of the future, but its a step in the right direction if it forces the hand of innovation. I went to grad school in the Bay Area, California and living there its a great solution along with Southern California...not so much the rest of America between there and say the East Coast. Until they can hit some true breakthroughs in battery technology along with massive plan and funds to increase the supporting infrastructure the inconvenience, cost, and lifestyle changes needed make this a niche product.

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I'm what you might consider a very skeptical watcher of the tech, not because I don't see the possibilities or because I'm addicted to sniffing burning fossil remains, I get the desire for alternatives. What I'm more concerned with is people think they are going to plug a car into this magic fueling station for free and think they've prevented the use of fossil fuels. At this time, there is no such thing as free energy. And unless you can do away with the conservation of energy law among other things, You have to give up energy on one side to get energy on the other. We went from torch, to candle to flashlight. If you just looked at the product, you could say "look how much more efficient and clean the flashlight is than burning a torch" And that would be true in the area where you're using the flashlight. But what about all the burning of things it takes to create the batteries. What about all the waste created from dead batteries and so on and so on. That's my only problem. People are treating this like it's soooo much cleaner and better without really looking at and studying if it truly is in the long run either more efficient OR cleaner. But as long as they don't smell the exhaust coming from a tail pipe, well then they MUST be saving the planet. So yes, I will remain cautious of all of these things that offer "free" and "cleaner" energy until they can prove that it will be either I'll keep waiting for the right electric car and my perpetual motion machine to power my house.

Bill

Edited by niart17
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Yeah, about that...

The national average, one-way daily commute is 25.5 minutes.

- U.S. Census Bureau 's annual American Community Survey for 2011

As of last week, there were 3.689 Superchargers and 3,689 Destination Chargers. By the end of 2017, when the Model III is available, they will have doubled the amount of Superchargers to 7,200 and tripled the number of Destination Chargers to 15,000.

Now, no one's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to go buy one of these. If you have to drive 200 miles to and from work every day, that's your problem, not ours. The majority of Americans don't have that situation, so the Model III (or something like it) makes a lot of sense.

The number of superchargers is one piece of the pie, the more important factor is the stations. I have five in the great state of Kansas, one in Nebraska, none in Iowa, and a few in Missouri. I got it for you, others, and +300K folks out there that per-ordered one it makes sense similar to say I dunno an Apple watch. For the majority it does not, if it did then sales would be booming for other EV cars, right?

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But what about all the burning of things it takes to create the batteries. What about all the waste created from dead batteries and so on and so on. That's my only problem. People are treating this like it's soooo much cleaner and better without really looking at and studying if it truly is in the long run either more efficient OR cleaner.

Bill

We're already using much of that energy to make, maintain, and dispose of more inefficient and wasteful vehicles, so wouldn't we ultimately be creating less waste in the grand scheme (at the tail-end of the process)?

Energy will never be "free" or "magical", so maybe you can clarify the point here. Kudos on well-reasoned skepticism, though (so rare online...), and touching on important questions.

Edited by plasticWerks_JL
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What I'm more concerned with is people think they are going to plug a car into this magic fueling station for free and think they've prevented the use of fossil fuels.

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At this time, there is no such thing as free energy.

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(Granted, there are initial installation costs, but once it's set up...)

What about all the waste created from dead batteries and so on and so on.

The batteries can be recycled, just like the batteries in your car now. Recycling of lead-acid batteries is now one of the most successful recycling stories of any industry. The EPA estimates that over 90 percent of lead-acid batteries are recycled, and a typical battery contains 60-80 percent recycled materials.

People are treating this like it's soooo much cleaner and better without really looking at and studying if it truly is in the long run either more efficient OR cleaner.

Actually, we have.

But as long as they don't smell the exhaust coming from a tail pipe, well then they MUST be saving the planet.

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I'll keep waiting for...my perpetual motion machine to power my house.

thesun.jpg

Solar_panels_on_a_roof.jpg

Science is hard.

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The number of superchargers is one piece of the pie, the more important factor is the stations.

Your house is your station. That's where the majority of your charging is done since the majority of drivers commute around town most of the time. The Superchargers exist to facilitate long-distance traveling, and currently permit access to pretty much all of the lower-48.

For the majority it does not, if it did then sales would be booming for other EV cars, right?

That's because until now, most EVs have been tiny little [censored]boxes with piss-poor range from companies that have piss-poor reputations for innovation. The Leaf's a joke, BMW's i3 is an ugly joke. GM should be ashamed of themselves for the Chevy Spark. And the Focus Electric should be taken out back and shot. They've been phoning it in. Meanwhile, the Model S has a range of 208 to 320 miles (depending on the battery option one chooses), can seat up to 7, and oh yeah, a P90D in Ludicrous mode can challenge the likes of the Nissan GT-R, Ford GT, Corvette, etc. It's a top of the line sedan. It proved that an EV can be used every day and can compete with the best of the ICE sedans. It's price point kept it out of the mass market (which was by design). Most importantly, it showed the industry what an EV can do because no could believed it was possible.

And this is what makes the Model III so refreshing. Thanks to the R&D that went into the Roadster, Model S and Model X, the revenue generated by the sales of the Model S and Model X (that went into development of the Model III) and the economics of scale (very high volume, mass production), the Model III is positioned as a mass-market, affordable EV that can compete for sales with the likes of the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima/Maxima - all of the top-selling sedans in the US. And not only that, but offer performance similar to that of the Model S (not to mention autopilot and five-star safety ratings across the board) and a range that starts at 215 miles (for the entry-level Model III). That's a game changer.

And the industry has taken notice. Chevy's 2017 Bolt has been promoted as a 200 mile range class vehicle and it has a $37,500 base price.

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Science is hard.

:woot.gif::thumbsup: That's very cute Einstein. You can paste images. Nice presentation with a mildy funny insult. I'd give it about a C with maybe a smiley face or red star in the corner.

Ok, so we're starting to use those other natural resources with some efficiency and that's great. And it's starting to get successful, that's also great. Now take EVERTHING that uses ICE's and add that strain to the loop. Do you think that's going to cover all the power requirements without possibly causing just as much potential damage to the environment in some form or fashion? I'm NOT saying that electric cars aren't the (one) way of the future. I'm just saying that it's not going to be this Utopia suddenly because we got rid of all the Ford Explorers. And I think that innovation will happen. The market will allow good tech to pave the way and bad tech will just not succeed. Everybody thinks that all the oil dependant companies do is sit around and find ways to destroy the planet. I'm sure some of them guys do that. But also keep in mind that the bottom line they are looking at it money. If there is potential in EV they will jump on board. If it happens great. But again, it's a give and take system. WE just need to be sure that answer is better than the current problem. That's all I'm saying.

Bill

P.S. I'm changing your grade to a B- because I really do like that picture of the sun. :cheers:

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On filling landfills with batteries, I don't think that's really happening.

My (ex)wife had a Prius. I thought it was ugly. I also thought it was an engineering marvel compared to anything coming out of Detroit at the time (2006). Let me tell you something about the "battery". A Prius doesn't just have a battery, it has something like 40 of them (the exact number varies with model and year), connected in series. When any one cell drops below a voltage threshold it compromises the entire electrical storage system. Many people assume that means the entire battery system must be replaced, by Toyota, for many thousands of dollars. In reality, the other 39 batteries (n-1, whatever) are just fine. You can find several small outfits that will replace that one dead cell and restore the system for maybe a couple hundred bucks. Guys buy a wrecked Prius, remove the battery system and now they can "repair" 40 other Prius battery systems. 'm pretty sure Tesla does the same when they 'service' your 'battery'.

My point is, these battery packs aren't going in the landfill. They are being recycled through reuse, and quite efficiently.

Just food for thought.

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