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F-111E armament options


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I saw a pic of an F-111E with 12 BLU-109s, and I thought the same thing. That would be awesome to display. But I wouldn't even know where to get them or buy them.

Aaron

I'm currently making plans to do my own AGM-88's in 32ndusing Evergreen plasticard; the tube stock pretty much covers all sizes needed or that can be used for missile/bomb bodies...and the flat stock easily lends itself to fins with all the correct measurements...If I can find them I'll give the link for BLU-109's, decals will present another problem to be sorted out.

Link'em 1

Scratch building BLU-109's may be a difficult undertaking; with the angles and dangles, and the 1/48 Hasegawa Weapons set E only give ya two ...bummer.

Edited by #1 Greywolf
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The problem on 3A/6A for AIM-9L/M missiles was a fit issue. IIRC there was only about 1/8" clearance between the bottom of the aircraft wing and the top of the wing of the 2nd generation Sidewinders (D/G/H/L/M/R/S) that had a greater wingspan than the 1st generation missiles (A-B-E-J-N-P). Whatever the number was, it wasn't enough, so the only way the F-111 could carry a 2nd generation AIM-9 was by parent-mounting the launcher to the bottom of the (usually) inboard stations 4/5 (this wasn't done during Desert Storm). The RAAF experimented with an extended/angled pylon to overcome this limitation, but I think it caused a vibration problem and wasn't adopted. Not positive about that and would be happily corrected by someone from Oz who knows more.

I know, the most common 3a/6a missle was the cranked arrow P model from what Ive been told.

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I saw a pic of an F-111E with 12 BLU-109s, and I thought the same thing. That would be awesome to display. But I wouldn't even know where to get them or buy them.

Aaron

Are you sure it was a BLU-109?

I know the E models carried the BLU-107, Lakenheath crews favored the BLU-109 version of the Paveway bombs and shipped all the BLU-107 weapons to Upper Heyford because the E model could carry a BLU-109 Paveway but couldnt guide it.

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  • 1 month later...

Ok... I'm late to this party... I was a weapons loadcrew member for the F-111Es and EF-111As at RAF Upper Heyford from July 1988 to Sept 1990. I was in the 77th AMU, supporting the 77th TFS, and the 42nd ECS primarily.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE EVER use a MER or a TER on this aircraft if you are modeling one from that time frame. To my knowledge the BRU has been the only ejector rack ever fitted to the F-111. I only saw MERs and TERs on other TDY aircraft, and during Tech School (Lowry AFB, CO)(again on other aircraft in the hanger we trained in). The only times I can imagine that F-111s would have used MERs or TERs was early in its development, or perhaps during Vietnam. Of course, I can't speak for the Australian's C models.

For those who are modeling a F-111 with anything hanging from the pylons, the MAU-12 rack had sway braces built into it. The only time a pylon wouldn't have sway braces is if the rack was removed for maintenance. It's simple... No sway braces = No rack (and that means no weapons). You want weapons, you MUST have sway braces. Since the rack wasn't removed except for maintenance, even empty pylons had sway braces. If you want to model a F-111 without weapons loaded should also know that the underside of the pylon had holes in it to allow for the electrical wires that connected the aircraft to the weapons. I seem to remember the inside of the pylon a Zinc Chromate green, but wouldn't be surprised if it was actually yellow. During Mid Shift, SUUs and empty BRUs would be often moved from one aircraft to another, the panel access panel would be opened (one side only), and the wire bundle would be hanging out of it. Graveyard shift would then connect up power, unload the SUU if needed, then perform functional checks, and load it for the next day's operations.

We NEVER used the fixed stations (1,2, 7 and 8) for anything, no pylons or racks were EVER attached to them. Our gravity weapon mounting options were limited to the pivoting pylons (STAs 3, 4, 5, and 6)/weapons bay directly (via the MAU-12). Weapons could also be hung from the BRU-3A, and the SUU-21 Practice Bomb Dispenser. While I was in England, our aircraft never used the SUU-20 Practice Bomb Dispenser Rack, and I never saw one outside of Tech School (while training on a F-111A model). It's my understanding that the SUU-21 was the exclusive external practice bomb dispenser in England, so it is likely that any other UK based aircraft that would have carried practice bombs would also have used them (perhaps even to today). Also during my stay in England, the pylons and BRUs were always painted black, and the SUU-21s were (IIRC) OD Green (could have been just green, but I seem to remember OD Green). I never saw the jettisonable fixed hardpoint pylons EVER.

Our SUU-21 carried practice munitions were the 25lb BDU-33 (painted blue), and the 5lb MK-106 retarded "Coffee Can" practice bomb (painted orange). Neither munition needed a lug to attach it to the spring loaded ejector clamps of the SUU-21. I don't remember any preference for one practice munition on one side vs another, though if I were modeling one with them and the SUU's doors were open, I'd have the blue bombs on the right side of the aircraft, orange on the left. Typically, our practice bomb racks were located on the right side of the shelter, and it seems natural that we'd want to walk the shorter distance with the heaver bomb. The SUUs were usually loaded on STAs 4 and 5.

Rarely would we load AIM-9's to the aircraft, but we did train with them during Loadbarn certifications. Rails for the AIM-9 were attached to the outboard side of STA 3 and 6, and never to the MAU-12 (on the underside of the pylon), and were not removed (even when empty)(except for maintenance).

Our special weapon simulators were of the B57, B61 tactical nuclear bombs, and the BDU-38 drop shape. I never saw a F-111E fly with a live nuclear weapon. Typically, they were either loaded as a single (usually loaded on the right side of the weapons bay), or as a pair loaded on STAs 4 and 5. When loaded for an exercise (Salty Nations, etc.) STAs 3 and 6 frequently would be loaded with external fuel tanks. For those with the Hobby Boss kit, you should know that the bundle of wires that runs the length of the weapons bay (That pipe in the center of the weapons bay) was always covered by a white(ish) canvas cover that was laced over it. I never saw one that was clean. If it was undergoing major maintenance you might have opened it, but I never saw that during any of my time working in there.

TDY missions would see the aircraft loaded with a TDY pod (which I was told was made from a recycled napalm bomb (without any kind of fins)) for the pilot and the WSO on STAs 4 and 5, as well as a rack in the weapons bay.

The ALQ 131 ECM pod was exclusively located on a hardpoint rack behind the main landing gear, between the strakes, and ahead of the tail hook. I never saw any other type of ECM pod used on the F-111s I worked on.

Our conventional weapons were typically 2000lb Mk 84 practice munitions (direct to the pylons), and Mk-82 Snakeyes, or Mk-82 Air (loaded on the BRUs). I don't remember seeing that many slicks ever used. CBUs and BDUs were loaded on BRUs, but if they were loaded on STAs 4 or 5, the inside munitions were removed (thus the weapons were slant loaded) to prevent them from accidentally being pushed into the side of the aircraft when the wings were swept. If memory serves we could load the Mk-20 Rockeye munition on the inside stations of BRUs loaded on STA 4/5 because their diameter wouldn't be a problem with the wings swept. I seem to remember that we did train with LGB's, once. However, the F-111E couldn't designate them. So, if they did ever use them, someone else needed to be painting the target. The vast majority of the dumb iron bombs that I loaded while I was there were inert practice munitions.

Durandals were loaded on BRUs (typically in all 6 stations). The rounded nosecone needed to be removed from the aft stations. While we practiced with these in the barn, Durandals were only to be loaded as a live weapon during actual warfare (I missed Desert Storm by days).

We had only started changing the traditional chaff and flare dispensers to the newer type that was to be used just before I left the UK.

Only one F-111E had an all grey paint scheme when I left [EDIT] Just found it was 68-0050 after getting the AMP upgrade. Photos can be found here.[/EDIT], and it was the only one that had the GPS satellite receiver that is so prominently seen on the Hobby Boss F-111E model (just ahead of the canopy). All other F-111s that I saw still had no such panel, and would look like what you find in the Academy kit.

The EF-111A Raven (AKA "SparkVark") were only ever loaded with chaff and flare. However, there was one time that we were ordered to equip one with rails and AIM-9s for a photo op despite the complete lack of the aircraft's ability to do anything more than simply carry it. Historical note: One EF-111A was partially credited with downing an Iraqi fighter during Desert Storm. It was flying its mission when an Iraqi fighter managed to catch it in its sights. The 111 was low, and took evasive maneuvers to avoid being shot down. About that time a F-15 showed up (possibly unaware of the situation that was unfolding below it), and the Iraqi pilot broke off his attack. In his panic over the F-15, he lost situational awareness, and flew his plane into the side of a mountain. This was documented in the History Channel's TV program "Wings" on at least two separate shows that I've seen... One on the F-111, and one on either the F-15 or on Desert Storm.

I also do not remember any nose art on any of the aircraft, In researching nose art on the UH based 111's I've found that 68020 was painted as "The Chief" in 1989, but I don't remember that artwork (then again, it didn't belong to my squadron and I didn't see up close it all that often). However, it has it currently in its new home in the Imperial War Museum at Duxford.

[EDIT]

Behind the scenes here, I've been in touch with another 462 from Upper Heyford, and we've been discussing slant loads...

Here's what he said...

We did some slant 4 loads as well as full BRU loads .....

When Heyford flew from Incirlik during D'Storm they were putting 6 X MK-82 on stations 3 & 6 with slant 4 loads of MK-82 on

stations 4 & 5 as one of the loadouts they carried.

CBU-58's (SUU-30 dispenser) were more of the slant 4 loads as putting 6 on a BRU was doable....it was a real pain to get the BRU

mechanical safety pins in & out from the 2 center BRU positions .....never mind trying to unlock them if you were downloading them

CBU-87 & CBU-89 were frequently done as slant 4 loads ...maybe more due to the weight of them .....they were heavier than the CBU-58

and the MK-20

MK-20 loads were normally 6 on a BRU

MK-82 slicks, snakeyes, and AIRs were commonly 6 on each BRU

He didn't remember Durindals at UH, but at Lakenheath, and since I never loaded at Lakenheath, I know we had them a UH.

[/EDIT]

Some possible loadouts for an F-111E from UH might be:

Two SUU-21s (on STA 3 and 6)(one carrying BDU-33s and the other carrying MK-106s), as well as BRU's on STA 4 and 5 (carrying a full load of inert (or even possibly live) Mk-82 AIR bombs), and maybe even a practice AIM-9 or two. (Remember, I served during the Cold War, not during any real fighting)

Twenty Mk-82's (snakeye, AIR, or slick), CBU-58s, CBU-87s, CBU-89s (full BRUs on STAs 3 and 6, and slant 4 BRUs on STAs 4 and 5 (with inboard weapons removed). (AIM-9s optional)

Twentyfour Mk-82s, Durindals (during combat only), or Mk-20's loaded six to a BRU on all four pylons. (AIM-9s optional)

Eight SUU-30s, loaded on STA 3 and 6, in a "flat four" configuration.

Two B57 (or B61s) loaded on STAs 4 and 5 with fuel tanks on STAs 3 and 6. (AIM-9s optional)

Four Mk-84s (snakeye, AIR, or slick) loaded one each to a pylon.

Among many others.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Edited by KTesh
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Great info here, I too am building an UH E jet armed for nuke strike with the 1/72 Hasegawa kit. Not sure if they ever were armed ready and waiting like this but I wanted to build it regardless.

So I have B-61s for station 4,5, fuel tanks on 3,6 and the ALQ 131 on the underside rear. Only I'm unsure whether aim-9s would be loaded for this mission? I would guess no but then in Desert Storm I believe they were carried early on.

Thanks for any help

David.

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Ive been told in the past that the AIM-9P was never carried at the same time as 600gal tanks.

Ive also been told in the past that they never carried 4x B-61 special weapons.

No real response was given to the pictures I posted showing both of the above.

If the tail codes are white then I would say no dont put AIM-9P on stations 3a/6a, if its meant to show a later jet then there is no reason why it couldnt have been loaded like that. However if it was ever actually carried by a UH jet Im not sure, I have no pictures to prove it was.

Make sure the ECM pod is the AN/ALQ-131 shallow version, the deep version didnt have enough ground clearance.

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Great info here, I too am building an UH E jet armed for nuke strike with the 1/72 Hasegawa kit. Not sure if they ever were armed ready and waiting like this but I wanted to build it regardless.

So I have B-61s for station 4,5, fuel tanks on 3,6 and the ALQ 131 on the underside rear. Only I'm unsure whether aim-9s would be loaded for this mission? I would guess no but then in Desert Storm I believe they were carried early on.

Thanks for any help

David.

During Exercises (NATO TAC Evals, Salty Nations) we might have loaded them in the manner you are looking to display. They NEVER left the ground loaded like that though (BDU-38s yeah, maybe a few, but not a real nuke). Can't remember about the AIM-9, it's been too long. However, I just don't remember loading up all that many ever while I was there. So, I'd say no.

Edited by KTesh
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For those interested in such things, nukes don't have a hyphen (dash) in the designation. B57, B43 and B61 are proper designations for nukes. B-57, B-43 and B-61 would designate airplanes, the Martin Canberra, Douglas Jetmaster and the original designation of the Martin Matador ground launched cruise missile respectively. Lots of people make the mistake with the designations, even some DoD sources. Also, the drop shape for the B61 is a BDU-38, not B-38. The B-38 was a B-17E modified to use Allison V-1710 engines, fwiw.

I was stationed at Ramstein from 1983 to 1986. The weapons load training hangar was across from our maintenance hangar in the 526 TFS restricted area. They had B43, B57, and B61 training shapes in there so apparently we had those weapons on station during those years. It could be they had all three of them at RAF Upper Heyford as well.

Scott

Edited by Scott R Wilson
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Thanks for the corrections... I'll edit them into my post.

My info is based on memories from 26-28 years ago (1988-1990). When it comes to the hyphens I never knew that there wasn't one.

I'm certain that I never saw a B43 while I was there. That said, I was there for a narrow time frame, so it's possible that UH had them at some time. While I was there, we had training shapes for the B57s and B61s in the barn. BDU-38s were rarely loaded, but not in the barn.

Edited by KTesh
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Thanks for the corrections... I'll edit them into my post.

My info is based on memories from 26-28 years ago (1988-1990). When it comes to the hyphens I never knew that there wasn't one.

I'm certain that I never saw a B43 while I was there. That said, I was there for a narrow time frame, so it's possible that UH had them at some time. While I was there, we had training shapes for the B57s and B61s in the barn. BDU-38s were rarely loaded, but not in the barn.

No worries, I've misremembered a few things over the years too. Several times I answered questions about F-4Es from memory then found photos I'd taken that proved me wrong. We do the best we can. Your information has been very interesting. What other aircraft did you work on?

Edited by Scott R Wilson
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No worries, I've misremembered a few things over the years too. Several times I answered questions about F-4Es from memory then found photos I'd taken that proved me wrong. We do the best we can. Your information has been very interesting. What other aircraft did you work on?

I just found another error in my post (I was active duty from 1988-1990), I corrected that. I was RIFd before really getting a chance to do much on other aircraft. I had to load an A-10 once (bombs, not bullets), and was able to check out a SAAB Viggen that was on TDY. Also at UH, I got the opportunity to eyeball a F-4 that was around for battle damage training, and check out the F-100 Super Saber (56-3000) that was going to go on static display. While at Lowry, I was able to crawl inside a static display B-52 a time or two.

Edited by KTesh
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F-111F carrying 600gal tanks and AIM-9P

DFST9104005-a-1.jpg

F-111E carrying a brace of silver bullets.

F-111E-Loaded_zps2u9rneic.jpg

Are the live? They are silver with black nose. What colour is a loading shape?

Caption from the original photo from the RAF Upper Heyford site

F-111E - Loaded'

At the time, Capt. Steve Barrett and Capt. Larry Carter."We were both assigned to the Wing's Weapons and Tactics shop, and flying with the 77TFS. This picture was taken by Sandia Corp just prior to us flying a weapons compatibility test with the F-111E prior to fielding a new modification to the weapons."

Edited by ElectroSoldier
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Are the live? They are silver with black nose. What colour is a loading shape?

Good question (and great pic). My guess is that these are shapes. The caption states that the pic was taken right before a flight. Not sure, but I don't think USAF was flying with live nukes (especially four of them) any time after the early 70's.

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F-111F carrying 600gal tanks and AIM-9P

DFST9104005-a-1.jpg

F-111E carrying a brace of silver bullets.

F-111E-Loaded_zps2u9rneic.jpg

Are the live? They are silver with black nose. What colour is a loading shape?

Caption from the original photo from the RAF Upper Heyford site

F-111E - Loaded'

At the time, Capt. Steve Barrett and Capt. Larry Carter."We were both assigned to the Wing's Weapons and Tactics shop, and flying with the 77TFS. This picture was taken by Sandia Corp just prior to us flying a weapons compatibility test with the F-111E prior to fielding a new modification to the weapons."

The loading shapes were bare metal with a brown mahogany colored ?plastic? bit at the front. I suspect the weapons in the photos are the same, but just appear black due to the picture quality. The color was not solid, like you'd get with paint. To me, the actual brown bit looked like sawdust embedded in a dark brown plastic epoxy resin, with some of the "sawdust" particles being lighter in color than others. Kind of like linoleum. I have no idea why it was that way, and haven't been able to locate resources that explain the logic of it. If I were to be building a large scale model of one (say a prop for a film), I'd simulate that area with sawdust embedded just as I described. The colors you can see in the image below appears accurate to me.

1024432930.jpg

Oh, and there was small patches of lead that fit just under the sway brace pads.

Edited by KTesh
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The loading shapes were silver with a brown mahogany colored ?plastic? bit at the front. I suspect the weapons in the photos are the same, but just appear black due to the picture quality.

Any idea what a real weapon looked like? Same colors as a shape?

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Are the live? They are silver with black nose. What colour is a loading shape?

No, they're load trainers, probably BDU-39/Es. A couple of points:

The noses were dark brown, not black--I don't know if they were bake-light (sp?) or not, but that's what they looked like. Real B61s had a silver lacquer finish, not bare metal like the load trainers. In the 1980s, B43, B57 and B61s were all available in Europe with the primary one being the B61. You'll notice SUU-21/A dispensers almost always mounted on the inboard pylons of NATO F-111s. That's because we were always practicing the nuclear release procedures from the pylons that would be used to drop the real weapons in combat and verifying that the circuitry was functional.

The picture was clearly a 'hero shot'--the real deals were never loaded like that operationally (they were authorized, but so were a lot of things that weren't done by the war fighters)--the outboard pylons were reserved for fuel tanks with the nuke mission and conventional ordnance until the 'crowd pleasers' were needed. Here's a picture of one of the load trainers taken at Cannon AFB in 1981.

810800-K16%20B61%20Load%20Trainer_zpswwsrhqba.jpg

As far as the AIM-9Ps on 3A/6A with tanks, it was't prohibited. The way it probably would have gone if we'd gone to war with the Warsaw Pact, if we'd been flying with AIM-9s during the conventional part of the war, they would have probably not had time to remove them when we went nuclear. For the alert birds though, they were never loaded--just B61s, tanks and an ECM pod.

Edited by mrvark
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Any idea what a real weapon looked like? Same colors as a shape?

In an earlier edit of the post, I said silver, I revised it to read "bare metal", but you'd replied by then. I don't specifically remember the "silver lacquer" finish that mrvark mentioned, but I remember them as being really glossy. Again, the photo I have in that post appears accurate to my memory.

Oh, and I'll stick with what I said about special weapon's locations. I only remember loading a maximum of two per aircraft during our alerts, on STA 4/5, along with the drop tanks. If we ever loaded 4 (or more) to a plane, I don't remember it.

About the B57 bombs, in the event anybody wants to know, I remember them as being white. I found this website that has several really good detail shots: http://svsm.org/gallery/b57, but oddly enough, none of them are in profile.

Edited by KTesh
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The noses were dark brown, not black--I don't know if they were bake-light (sp?) or not, but that's what they looked like. Real B61s had a silver lacquer finish, not bare metal like the load trainers.

As Jim said, the real thing was a glossy silver lacquer finish. IIRC I read somewhere (maybe Hansen's book) that the paint was used to help contain neutrons in the first milliseconds of a detonation.

5384853071_dd33152832_o_1347578880_zpsuqbfqh1c.jpg

2_zpsj10umfo9.jpg

Bombes_B61-12-6c3f0-3-dbd05_zpsrhfxbv4u.jpg

b61_zpsnjumsq3z.jpg

Edited by Murph
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Thank you for answering my questions guys, really much appreciated! :thumbsup: Hope I'm not drifting the thread too much!

On the theme of the nuke alert load. What would be the configuration of the aircraft waiting in the hanger?

Would the wings be forward and flaps/slats out? Would any intake covers or FOD/probe guards/rbf tags be on the aircraft/weapons? I would image not and it would be just that, alert and ready to go with wings deployed for takeoff.

Cheers,

David.

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While at Upper Heyford in one of the TAB-V shelters the wings forward, flaps and slats down, over wing veins up, spoilers down, elevators drooped, engine covers on, inlet doors closed, one engine nozzle open, canopy open, stores loaded with RBF tags on, ground equipment in place waiting.

Stores would most likely, as has been said, a pair of B61 on sta 4,5 and tanks on 3,6, 3a, 6a present but not loaded, weapons bay doors open, ECM pod on rear hard point.

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While at Upper Heyford in one of the TAB-V shelters the wings forward, flaps and slats down, over wing veins up, spoilers down, elevators drooped, engine covers on, inlet doors closed, one engine nozzle open, canopy open, stores loaded with RBF tags on, ground equipment in place waiting.

Stores would most likely, as has been said, a pair of B61 on sta 4,5 and tanks on 3,6, 3a, 6a present but not loaded, weapons bay doors open, ECM pod on rear hard point.

Interesting, wouldn't have thought the flaps/slats would be down. I've seen plenty of other pics of aircraft on nuclear alert, none were in that configuration.

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