Jump to content

Recommended Posts

All,

I just heard from the grapevine that Squadron was in serious trouble and is very close to closing it doors. This thread is to discuss what we should do as the modeling community to either save it from going under or sit by and let it die. I don't want this thread to drop to the level of Squadron bashing because I know that all the online hobby suppliers, vendors, and even the local hobby shops have their faults and their stock of satisfied and dis-satisfied customers. Let me start this discussion with my thoughts.

When I first got back into the hobby in the mid 1980's Squadron was one of the first online shops that I started buying from. As I have lived here in the SE United States all my life, as a modeler, I have never lived in a city where there was a hobby shop that was close. So I am use to either having to travel to nearby places to support a brick and mortar hobby shop or do business online. So with that said, back in the 80's I would average 2 to 3 orders to Squadron a month. This trend slowed during the 90's because financially I had several lean years and didn't have that much disposable income that I could spend on hobby stuff. So my business dealings with Squadron became few and far between. After Y2K the business I did with Squadron slowly came back, but it never has gone back to what it was in the day. Even today I have found that the only business that I do with Squadron is on sale items. I can't tell you when the last time it was that I ordered something straight out of their catalog at the "regular" price.

So I guess am asking for in this post is opinions on Squadron because I have such mixed feelings about them. I can beat their regular prices all day, every day with other online suppliers, so in that respect it doesn't matter what happens to them. But on the other hand, just like I hate to hear about a brick and mortar LHS closing, I hate to hear about the online folks shuting down also.

Opinions? Discussion? Thank you so much for your input!

Best Regards,

Ken Bailey

(SonyKen)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to shop with them until I found Sprue Brothers. I would occasionally go back to them for stuff, but when I noticed some questionable pricing practices I ceased to support them. I know there is a lot of nostalgia with them, but the market has spoken. Customers have found and supported better shops.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Free market economics at work. They can't compete they die. As a consumer I have no reason to shop from them. Their prices are inflated, heck even when they have sales they barely compete with other vendors. Their shipping rates are also inflated. Then their stock is dwindling and non-competitive.

I just do not remotely understand the attachment some people get with retailers. Sure, they owned the 90s and mail order, but they've not kept up. The idea of "what we should do as the modeling community to either save it from going under or sit by and let it die" is laughable. It's their job to keep themselves in business. Not mine.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Much as I would like to shop closer to home (Canada) than Hong Kong, I have only rarely bought American on-line products. Shipping costs by mail USA/Canada are brutal.

Every time I see a Squadron sale pop up in my email inbox, I click around and sadly don't buy because shipping is so costly. Not their fault, but a deal-breaker for me.

ALF

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the 80s I used to order from almost every sale flyer that I got from them. Looked forward to those flyers every month and would pour over them with a fine tooth comb making my list. Probably explains why my model stash is the way it is.

Anyway, I live in Canada and as Alf18 says the shipping is a killer for me. Can't do it even with their sales. To add to our woes, the exchange on the Canadian/US dollar also is a factor. Add another 35-40% for the exchange and it ain't happening. In fact have almost zero purchases in the US anymore. The last few items I have bought have been on ebay and they came from the far east. Although having said that, with SB's new shipping option, I may have a US store to buy from again but I have yet to try that out.

Not sure what any of us here on ARC could do to "save" Squadron. We are probably a drop in the bucket for them revenue wise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They are very poorly stocked, and seem uninterested in doing anything about it.

On the other hand, I notice that as Sprue Brothers gets less and less competition, they're starting to rest on their duffs too. They're not what they were even as recently as 2010. Lets see where things go from here.

Edited by RKic
Link to post
Share on other sites

Wrong business model, never adjusted to the new reality of the model industry. I used to get their flyer and catalog about 20 years ago, when they were king, have not bought a thing from them since.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just do not remotely understand the attachment some people get with retailers. Sure, they owned the 90s and mail order, but they've not kept up. The idea of "what we should do as the modeling community to either save it from going under or sit by and let it die" is laughable. It's their job to keep themselves in business. Not mine.

Jimmy,

In view of your last statement, what do you think about "supporting your local hobby shop" statement? Most of the time here in the SE there is usually only one hobby shop in a certain area. So basically there is no "local" competition and the brick and mortar folks have to compete with the online folks. So just because the mom and pop stores can't stay in business with the online folks, then should they also be allowed to just shrivel up and die?

Best Regards,

Ken Bailey

(SonyKen)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken, I view the brick and mortar differently than online shops. Brick and mortar has the selling point of speed in my opinion. If I need something now, I can drive out and grab it. They also have the enjoyment of bs'ing with the people I know there. Squadron doesn't have any of that. Heck, I lived 15 minutes from Squadron here in Dallas for a bit and I couldn't even pick up an order there. I had to ship it! If I could have wandered around there like a normal store my views would be slightly different. They wanted to be an online company so that's how I judge them, and in that regard they were simply not good. You don't support restaurants that have all their menu items sold out and the few dishes that are served are noticeably overpriced.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only allegiance I've ever had is to my family's finances. Squadron, brick n mortar store, eBay, I don't support any of them unless they're the best deal in town. Online prices I only look at with the shipping included. Otherwise the price is just a smokescreen. Squadron seems to have let the times pass them by. Others like Sprue Bros have picked up the mantle. There will always be something.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Squadron should save the name and it should save the business. For the time being, it probably needs to concentrate on just a couple things it knows will do well. Also, Squadron has just flat out failed at judging the internet. The internet is all about freer information for most, and all this BS about listing MSRP in big letters, normal price in little letters, and the sale price in bold red letters just screams scam artist. The internet users know they can find better deals with less confusion, thus they avoid Squadron. Be up front with your price and info and people will love you. Insult our intelligence and you'll die, it's that simple. People don't have time to look at your pitch and wonder why you don't get that the net is about free information.

On the other hand, I think that if Squadron falls, other online retailers will have to become more competitive to survive. This will drive even more out of business. Then you will be left with a small number that can dominate the market with higher prices. My biggest beef with highly priced kits is that they are aimed at the older crowd and this trend, if unchecked, will kill plastic modeling when they die.

Edited by Exhausted
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's simple for me If they have what I want in STOCK I buy it from them. To me on most items they have the best prices. I rarely pay shipping cause I buy enough to qualify for free....if shipping bothers you order more and you get free shipping...Problem lately is they don't have anything in stock.

I wanted to buy some Eduard items but no joy..I'd have purchased a TON of things...oh well I will miss them but I can't spend any more than I already do...If you saw My CC statements from the last few years back to about 2009 you'd see what I mean...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the sentiment behind hating to see the Squadron name go away. It's been a staple for a long time. But to me the best thing to do to help save it would be to either A) approach the owners with some real suggestions on how best to improve their business model (which would rarely work since most of those solutions have probably already gone unheeded) or find a serious investor(s), buy it out and run it with good business practices. But to support it when they are causing the issues by rewarding them for those bad practices to me doesn't make sense. I can understand a local hobby shop struggling to compete with big online, and supporting them because they may be doing all they can to make it work. But one online company shouldn't have problems competing with others unless it's because of business practices. They all have the same load to carry. They make it, good, they don't, then it wasn't meant to be.

Bill

Edited by niart17
Link to post
Share on other sites

I buy from my LHS when they have what I want at a reasonable price,(not necessarily the lowest) and I also used to buy a lot from Squadron. I have had a problem with Squadron over the last several years with what I want not being in stock. I have switched to Sprue Brothers for most of my orders because they are better stocked, have competitive prices and shipping is lightening quick.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have an issue with Squadron service wise but I rarely shop there. Cost is more and most times what I need/want always seems to be out of stock. Bottom line I go where I get the cheapest price. Period. Right now its been Amazon. My last six kits have come from Amazon at a better deal then anywhere else anywhere on the internet. Prices there fluctuate so you need to be patient. But its been my go-to place for kits and even supplies lately.

Hey I love Squadron for nostalgic reasons and it would be sad to see it go. But cost/savings and having items available and ready to ship win out to me.

:cheers:

Link to post
Share on other sites

On the other hand, I notice that as Sprue Brothers gets less and less competition, they're starting to rest on their duffs too. They're not what they were even as recently as 2010. Lets see where things go from here.

I'm not sure what you're seeing. SB has increased their product lines to the point of having thousands of different items in stock. They continue to ship quickly. If you are talking price, they have only increased their prices as the distributors/manufacturers have increased theirs. They go out of their way to find the cheapest shipping method. Much of the cost is out of their control. Many of the other online businesses are actually ordering services. There is one out east that is one day shipping from the distributor. He doesn't need to stock items, so his overhead is extremely low. SB has an entire warehouse full of inventory, so they simply can't lower prices when distributors are raising them. I'm really curious as to how they are resting on their duffs.

In regard to Squadron, they have made some really, really bad business decisions and it's coming back to bite them. They either adapt or die. It's really as simple as that. I do understand the nostalgia aspect of it, though, and wanting things to be the way they were.

Edited by Darren Roberts
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm generally repeating what some others have said, but in general I think that if they can't make money doing what they're doing, that's not my responsibility. I have found their pricing to be suspect, and just stopped buying from them for the most part, and I think that falls completely on them.

As for the LHS, the same rules apply for me, but the criteria is different. Not only do they offer immediacy, but they also offer a hands-on environment, letting me look at things and learn more about them before I buy. I think those things are worth paying extra for (within reason), and worth me putting a little effort into keeping. So if a hobby store has reasonable pricing given their costs, even if it's higher than someplace online, I sometimes still buy from them just to keep the value of the other things they provide.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice for them if they could save themselves. But, like many here, while I do have a long "nostalgia fondness" for them, I don't have a money allegiance to them.

I was a Squadron Shop LHS customer back at the Lakewood Shopping Center (now Lakewood Mall) from age 12. When we moved to central Wisconsin, I used Squadron Mail Order (along with some others that have also since closed up shop)

The only loss I see right now is that if they close, they might also close their Wholesale Distributorship, which would put even more pressure on the LHSs.

But, the things that I buy today are almost all sold directly from the producer, or from Hannants.

It would be tempting to buy SuperScale from them, and try to buy Floquil/Polly Scale from RPM,,,,,,but, I probably wouldn't live long enough to get any ROI anyway.

As I have said many times, though, I am different, as much as I like Sprue Brothers, I haven't ordered from them in a long time,,,,,they just don't have anything that fits my small niche of items,,,,plenty of other scales,,,,but, not stuff for my "tiny models"

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with most of the people here. I have been with Sprue since they started. For me they blow away the competition online. As many have said, Squadron didn't read the writing on the wall. That's part of doing business in the world. You snooze,You loose.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As noted above, we vote with our wallets. Squadron used to be in my short list. A prolonged period of out of stock and non-competitive pricing removed them. Now Sprue, Scale Hobbyist, Freetime, and Hannants are most likely for things I can't get from the LHS. They rate special privileges.

I just ordered a 1/48 Valom An-2 from Hannants for £12.49!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to order from Squadron all the time, but rarely do now unless there is something really cheap. They have some deceptive pricing, like their bundles of Hobby Boss kits with some Vallejo paints, a sprue nipper, and Testors tube glue. Their "sale" price is about the same as the items bought individually and the supposed retail price is far more. They don't stock brands like Hasegawa or Bronco, they have just a few brands of paint, and most of what they advertise isn't in stock. They used to be the best online retailer, I ordered from them and Great Models and they had far better in stock selection. Sprue Brothers gets the majority of my business now, but they have competition. The first place I look for decals is from repelalpha on ebay, Hobbyworld USA has a great paint selection, and since they aren't offered from US retail outlets I go to Ebay or Amazon for Bandai Star Wars stuff.

If Squadron can turn around and go back to being a great business I will shop with them, but right now my business goes elsewhere.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...