nspreitler Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Today was the marked the end of OH-58 operations in CONUS. 1st Squadron, 17th Cavalry of the 82nd Combat Aviation Brigade will be the last unit in the Army to fly the Kiowa. They had a mass formation flight today to mark the end of Kiowa operations on Fort Bragg. The unit will fly the aircraft for 9 more months on their rotation to South Korea, but then the aircraft will be retired and the unit will fly AH-64s and UAVs. http://www.wral.com/last-kiowa-helicopter-unit-to-fly-at-fort-bragg-on-friday/15638996/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share Posted April 15, 2016 (edited) More video http://www.fayobserver.com/video/military/kiowas-over-downtown-fayetteville/video_5ed1b41c-0319-11e6-a049-435714e9d3b3.html Edited April 15, 2016 by nspreitler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 How can anyone retire such a platform on good conscience? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 How can anyone retire such a platform on good conscience? Time marches on. UAV's and other assets are supposed to pick up the slack. Not the most survivable platform out there either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share Posted April 15, 2016 How can anyone retire such a platform on good conscience? The Kiowa was a victim of Pentagon Wars, the plan to replace the Kiowa started in the early 80s. Programs to replace it were canceled three times, and the latest plan to upgrade the existing aircraft was also cancelled. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 How can anyone retire such a platform on good conscience? The Army's always hated the Kiowa, they've been trying to replace it for over 30 years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Time marches on. UAV's and other assets are supposed to pick up the slack. Not the most survivable platform out there either. That it does. Sadly, the savings are only upfront when you steal from Peter to pay Paul. The Army is doubling down on FVL and a light armed scout is apart of that catalina wine mixer. Should be good to go by 2030! With the Army's track record I'll be dead before I see the Army field a new helicopter design. Chinooks until 2065....seriously. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 That it does. Sadly, the savings are only upfront when you steal from Peter to pay Paul. The Army is doubling down on FVL and a light armed scout is apart of that catalina wine mixer. Should be good to go by 2030! With the Army's track record I'll be dead before I see the Army field a new helicopter design. Chinooks until 2065....seriously. Go Chinooks! Not sure that a light scout helo has a place anymore, when we have UAV's, Apache E models, etc. Don't think anyone else is using scout helos these days. Even those unenlightened Jarheads seem to be able to get by without. Speaking of Chinooks... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b05_1459559040 RPG strike to the tail ramp. Hope the aft gunner didn't get hurt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Time marches on. UAV's and other assets are supposed to pick up the slack. Not the most survivable platform out there either. This sounds familiar... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 The Army's always hated the Kiowa, they've been trying to replace it for over 30 years. Too true. Ask any grunt and they will tell you the brass has hated it almost from the start. This will cost grunt lives, no other platform can do what the Kiowa whatever does. And the cost to operate is much less than the expensive apache that is too complex to do the mission. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Too true. Ask any grunt and they will tell you the brass has hated it almost from the start. This will cost grunt lives, no other platform can do what the Kiowa whatever does. And the cost to operate is much less than the expensive apache that is too complex to do the mission. Agreed.. Warthogs forever! Oh wait, I thought this was an A-10 thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) Agreed.. Warthogs forever! Oh wait, I thought this was an A-10 thread. No no this is the army, so it's ok. But hey speaking of the A-10, wouldn't it be great if the USAF gave the army the A-10? Clearly they have loads of cash. Perfect time really. You know, like everyone suggests? Anywho the parrellels sure are obvious. Can't believe scooter isn't berating the army for this move.... oh wait AZ is an apache producer lol silly me Edited April 16, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nspreitler Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 What's just as surprising is the Air Force not throwing a fit that the Army is replacing it with armed MQ-1Cs that are flown by enlisted operators. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 What's just as surprising is the Air Force not throwing a fit that the Army is replacing it with armed MQ-1Cs that are flown by enlisted operators. Cool, does that mean the can wear Army Aviator wings??? Or will they design a UAV pilot's wings?-- yes I'm being a smart elic! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) Cool, does that mean the can wear Army Aviator wings??? Or will they design a UAV pilot's wings?-- yes I'm being a smart elic! Tim As long as the UAV operators are wearing nomex flightsuits while sitting in their conex boxes in Nevada, it's all good. Or maybe that's just an air force thing? I jest. There is always the chance that they could spill their Starbucks coffee on their laps, so nomex could come in handy I spose. Edited April 16, 2016 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 This will cost grunt lives, no other platform can do what the Kiowa whatever does. And the cost to operate is much less than the expensive apache that is too complex to do the mission. It may, that was part of the risk taken by divesting the entire fleet. When faced with a reduction of half of your aviation fleet it was the least bad decision with the options available at the time. The capability lost won't be here for at least another 15 years. Two particular areas needing immediate attention are being tackled by good people. The political is beyond my pay grade but the technical should provide a working solution. The problem actually is the complexity of the platform and how it fits in roles that only the Kiowa has been able to fill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) Too true. Ask any grunt and they will tell you the brass has hated it almost from the start. This will cost grunt lives, no other platform can do what the Kiowa whatever does. And the cost to operate is much less than the expensive apache that is too complex to do the mission. Give 'em to the Marines! They know how to do rotary right! Edited April 16, 2016 by Trigger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 When faced with a reduction of half of your aviation fleet it was the least bad decision with the options available at the time. Again sounding incredibly familiar. The least worst option given fiscal reality... This or lose even more other aircraft... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Again sounding incredibly familiar. The least worst option given fiscal reality... This or lose even more other aircraft... What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. The difference this go around is there is real options in the pipeline for other services, not so for mean green. Heck, they can't even procure a pistol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. The difference this go around is there is real options in the pipeline for other services, not so for mean green. Heck, they can't even procure a pistol. No wonder the USAF is under such pressure to carry the weight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Such a cool looking helo though. We used to see them fairly regularly flying low over the tree lines and fields where we live but haven't for a while. Mainly get Apaches, Blackhawks, Chinooks and the odd Marine Cobra now. This has inspired me to seek out a 1/35 kit of the Kiowa now... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 No wonder the USAF is under such pressure to carry the weight The weight for what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 The weight for what? For supporting the army with airpower Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 For supporting the army with airpower Replace "Army" with Combatant Commander and you'll be closer to what has been going on in the past couple years. Now the mobility piece, that's a different story. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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