11bee Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 A gent on FB has an amazing collection of pictures of German WW2 aircraft. Including this one: Can't tell if it's a late G model or a K-4. Regardless, I've never seen a -109 painted like this. I know there were a few aircraft at the very end painted overall dark green but this appears to be black and also a bit glossy. The pic looks to be overexposed, is this just an issue with the film (or possibly is this a colorized B&W photo)? The Ju-88 in the background looks a bit darker than normal but you can still make out the green on that aircraft. Any thoughts? BTW, the here's the link to the FB site. If you are into Luftwaffe aircraft, it's worth grabbing a cup of coffee and heading over. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001297413740&sk=photos&collection_token=100001297413740%3A2305272732%3A69&set=a.941880935865145.1073741840.100001297413740&type=3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 It appears to be a period color photo (vs. colorized). That said, it's definitely overexposed, or at least poorly scanned. *That* said, there's really very little you can say for certain about what color(s) it might have been, other than that they were dark. Certainly interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 The only reason why I am leaning towards black is that the spinner looks to be the same color as most of the fuselage. I always thought the spiral on the spinner was white over black. Also, it looks like there is some sort of shroud over the exhaust. Maybe this really was an all black night-fighter? Lastly, what's that circular opening next to the 5 marking? I don't have my references handy, was there a round access panel in that location? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I think if memory serves its a Bf-109g6/AS. This picture was posted online a long while ago IIRC and it sparked a pretty huge and heated debate over colors and 109 type. In the end I think it was determined to be all black upper and lower with a green or red 5...forget which right now. Interesting subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Here, I found this article written by a well known fellow ARC'er who may chime in if he reads this thread: http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g6asgreen5fw_1.htm Apparently there were decals made for the 109 in question. HTH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 Thanks Don. Can I assume that the pic I posted is new and now shows the number in it's correct color? Also, the model you linked to doesn't have exhaust shrouds either. I guess this is what makes WW2 German subjects so interesting, there are no rules and even the experts get it wrong at times! Regards, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Griffin Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 There is a complete article in the "Im Focus" #4 of 2004 ( Start Edition ). Don is right, this is an all black G6 AS, coded Green 4, from 2./EJG2, or Night Fighter Replacement Training Unit Staffel, but became operational on July 44 and their primary purpose was anti Mosquito missions. Emblem of the unit is a owl, displayed on the cowling ( hard to see here… but much better views are included in the Im Focus ). ( no FB account = nothing to see there … <_< ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Your guess is as good as mine John. I can't find the pictures from 10 years ago but I know I have seen that photo you posted above before. Floyd can obviously address his build better then anyone else and as you know he's a good guy. I suspect he can shed better light on this/his subject best. In terms of the colors of the 5, I have seen a lot of colored pictures of 109's where I'd swear it was one color when the experten have declared it the polar opposite. Good stuff though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Leo Etgen Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Hi guys Here is a link with more information on this particular aircraft: http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2014/08/bf-109-g-6as-or-g-14as-wnr-unknown.html I hope that you find this useful and interesting. Horrido! Leo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Troy Smith Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 decals for this have been made by Luftverlag-start http://www.luftfahrtverlag-start.de/decals.html same scheme in 32nd/48th/72nd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I find it hard to believe that it's overall black. There seems to be a second color by the cockpit side wall and where the cross is on the fuselage, it appears that there is a lighter color on the side and the bottom is painted black. But I'm not an expert by any means. That's just what I see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G.R.Morrison Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 jester292, The color photo was taken postwar. There are other crisp photos of this machine, taken during the war while it was operational. While it's certainly a unusual scheme, it was indeed black overall. GRM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I didn't have any luck in my search for a wartime picture of this specific plane. Any links? The photo above doesn't indicate it's overall black, although it may have been at one time during the war. Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G.R.Morrison Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Not everything is on the internet. There are four (wartime) photographs of this machine (and another of "grüne 7" which has a more-convetional finish) in the Hübner collection. These show this aircraft at 8 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 12 o'clock, and a close-up of the emblem. December 1944, Hagenow. Copies can be found in Axel Urbanke's Luftwaffe im Focus, No. 4, Luftfahrtverlag-Start, Bad Zwischenhahn, ©2004, ISBN 3-9808468-4-9 GRM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 So it this one Blue 5 or Green 5? Sure looks blue to me and there aren't any signs in the pic above that the color has shifted that much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Not everything is on the internet. There are four (wartime) photographs of this machine (and another of "grüne 7" which has a more-convetional finish) in the Hübner collection. These show this aircraft at 8 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 12 o'clock, and a close-up of the emblem. December 1944, Hagenow. Copies can be found in Axel Urbanke's Luftwaffe im Focus, No. 4, Luftfahrtverlag-Start, Bad Zwischenhahn, ©2004, ISBN 3-9808468-4-9 GRM And that is why I ask. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G.R.Morrison Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 "So it this one Blue 5 or Green 5?" It was green. The color photo was taken 14.April 1945 at Gardelegen, 40 km N of Magdeburg, right after the 102nd (U.S.) Infantry Division had taken the airfield. From logbooks and other sources, green numbers 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 are known. Hübner has pics of 5, 6, 7 at Hagenow. Ofw. Josef Schmidt bailed out, wounded 12.Oct. 1944 near Neuruppin from WNr.460364 "grüne 1" Ofw. Heinrich Wolfert was KIA 21.Nov. 1944 near Fehrbellin in WNr.460361 "grüne 3" Lt. Gebhard Hagen was KIA 3.Dec. 1944 near Bresgard in WNr.460365 "grüne 2" GRM P.S., There's a fifth B+W Dec. 1944 photo of "grüne 5" at Hagenow, shot from 5 o'clock. BTW, not visible in the small-size color copy in the first post, this machine had a short antenna mast and an RDF loop, 'Erla' style canopy. The drop tank was rather beat-up and not painted black. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Troy Smith Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 (edited) Hi guys Here is a link with more information on this particular aircraft: http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2014/08/bf-109-g-6as-or-g-14as-wnr-unknown.html I hope that you find this useful and interesting. Horrido! Leo I didn't have any luck in my search for a wartime picture of this specific plane. Any links? The photo above doesn't indicate it's overall black, although it may have been at one time during the war. Aaron Leo posted this link, http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/bf-109-g-6as-or-g-14as-wnr-unknown.html which has a wartime pics of Green 5. It's all black. Edited May 7, 2016 by Troy Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Thanks! Must have missed that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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