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Waaaaaay O/T, but I'd love to hear what other people think.


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I don't know if I've mentioned this here before, but myself and my loved ones clash quite a bit when it comes to how I handle my heart condition. I enjoy being a bit risky, and it doesn't bother me to stick my neck out there a little bit. Hell, I'll admit it, I want to push myself as absolutely close to the edge as I possibly can. At the same time, I also understand that with my medical issues, everything is a bit more risky for me then it is for a normal, healthy person. My family obviously wants me to be more conservative (I dare say "walk on eggshells"), and be, in my opinion, ridiculously over-cautious, and minimize every possible risk there is. I've told people before...hey, look, I'm not purposely hunting for trouble or trying to find something to happen to me, but if, Heaven forbid, something bad does go down? I'm totally OK with it. As far as the family goes? I told them, "look, it's OK to be sad for a few days, but just say your goodbyes, keep me in your heart, and for God's sake, get over it and move the hell on with life. And if you can't do that? Sorry, not my problem." Well, according to the family, this is a selfish attitude to have because, "it's not as easy as 'just getting over it and moving on with life,' and I take life for granted and don't 'value' it." My loved ones are near and dear to my heart, and they are incredibly important in my life, but I'm not going to sit there and go "OK, if I did this and something happens, how will this affect Mom, Dad, Grandma, girlfriend, my friends, etc." I'm sorry, but I live my life for me first, not for anybody else. I'm expected to sacrifice something I want to do just because it may be a bit too "risky" and endanger me a little bit? Sorry, I can't do that. Am I being a butthead to my family/friends, or is this OK on my part? Don't hold back...be honest!

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My father (who had bypass surgery about 8 years earlier) died of a heart attack at 73 while cross country skiing in the mountains with my mother on Valentines day. He enjoyed it and frankly it sounds better than lingering in some hospital bed....

Edited by RCAFFAN
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Your loved ones/family need you in many ways, your presence is a pillar in their lives. I agree that they shouldn't love you so much as to take away what independence you have, by over caring. You do need to be active and enjoy life, however to push the edge of the envelope or even go outside can make it hard on all parties; to look providence in the eye and spit can have sad consequences. I've had the same talk with my family and we came to a meeting in the middle, if they don't over love me, I won't go too far out on a limb.

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Does your heart condition mean you could have a heart attack and need CPR? Does your GF and family know what to do if that happens?

I think you need to find balance....you need to live your life...but not be too reckless and try to do things that will improve your health.....exercising or resting or eating certain food...I do know eating a big steak before bed is bad if you have a weak heart because red meat takes much energy to digest and this can cause a heart attack in your sleep eating a steak before bed.

So out of consideration of them you could be proactive with your health as much as you can.

BUT....you do need to live your life.

Story time.

I had a friend....big alcoholic....never settled down...womanizer....got a girl pregnant and never knew it until the son showed up 20 years later. He just abused his health all his life. At 52 he had a massive heart attack...should have killed him......but he lived but had a very weak heart after that. He met a quiet woman and decided to settle down and do the family thing.....stopped drinking...had a daughter at 53 and always lived with the thought today could be my last. He watched his weight....lived a good life and died at 80 of cancer.

Don't forget to live your life, but also try to extend your life as much as you can...life is a gift to be enjoyed as long as we can. And don't forget you could make another persons life much better with your input in their life.

Never assume you won't live a long time....you could very well live much longer than you or your Doctor expect.

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I live my life for me first, not for anybody else.

I can see your family's point of view, but for me this is the essence. Might be worth explaining to them that, whilst you appreciate their concern, there is a danger that you will end up resenting them for preventing you from living your life how you want to. Sounds to me like you're the kind of man who would rather be dead at 30, but have filled those years with fun and excitement, than live a boring life just to make sure you hit 100 years old. They need to understand how you view the world.

Besides which, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow anyway... :485c3a61:

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The greatest blessing in life is having family who really love you and care about you. If that's the case, they will understand that you need to live your own life, as long as it doesn't expose them to unfair risks. Like Steve said, all about balance -it's entirely up to you to decide where that is; it sounds like you got it about right.

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My goodness ... you must be one helluva modeller to be taking these kinds of risks ... I'm gonna hafta take a look at your stuff ... :whistle:

Seriously, I agree with you. But ... BUT, you better have all your final arrangements made. Don't leave that to your family. THAT, is selfish. Show them the manila envelope with your will, all your passwords, Phone numbers (to banks, and account numbers, and cable companies, SSN, etc, etc, etc.) Decide on the coffin, plot, cremation, urn or whatever ... You wanna live life ... wonderful ... but don't leave anyone holding the bag when you depart. Your taxes and bills better be paid up ... and on and on and on.

This is all done? Terrific ... go nuts, live life and have a ball!

It's not done? ... then pull your head outta yer ...... you know!

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I enjoy being a bit risky, and it doesn't bother me to stick my neck out there a little bit. Hell, I'll admit it, I want to push myself as absolutely close to the edge as I possibly can.

OK, not knowing you personally...what exactly are we talking here...you live dangerously by ordering the steak extra rare or you're out there in a wing suit buzzing condor nests?

I'm all about living life to it's fullest...because it's short! My dad had heart health issues from the time he was in his late 30s, until he died of heart failure at 66...not an old man. In that regard I make sure I stay in shape and eat more or less right.

Have your affairs in order (for the families sake...) and enjoy I say! Otherwise I think it's selfish of your family to think you should just sit on your arse until you expire.

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I have always liked this saying:

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Cow, what a ride!"

My dad died at age 56 and while he wasn't a thrill seeker by any stretch of the imagination, I know there were many more things in life that he wanted to do and accomplish but he never had the opportunity to do so. I understand your family's apprehension because of your medical condition but you have to live for yourself. Do what you want, when you want to and how you want to. At the end of the day, would you rather say "Wow! I'm really glad I did that!" or "Wow; I really regret not doing that."

We have all experienced the death of a parent, friend, relative, co-worker, or neighbor, etc. Death is always harder on the living. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Those who love and care for you want to have you by their side for as long as possible. That's only human nature. Having lost both my mom and dad to cancer after very short diagnoses, I know this to be true. By the same token, if friends and family really love and care for you, medical condition be damned, they should embrace your decisions to pack as much excitement as you can into your limited time on this little blue sphere.

Most importantly, sit down with them and talk WITH them and not AT them. Not that you should have to, but explain your thought processes to them in a non-confrontational tone. In your post, you say you 'told them' what you're going to do. Fair enough. It is you life to live but if you take the time to make it a heart to heart talk, that may make it easier for them to accept your decisions. Re-assure them. That's what they want; re-assurance.

As Pete suggested, make sure your personal and financial affairs are in order, including your last will and testament, and let them know everything will be okay. After my dad died, my mom created her 'death binder'. It had contact information for her pre-arranged and pre-paid funeral, credit card companies, pension agencies, insurance companies, banking institutions and account numbers, etc. My brother and sister and I ribbed her about it all the time. When she passed, as the executor of her estate, all I had to do was take the binder, make phone calls, mail a few letters, deal with Revenue Canada through the accountants, etc and within 18 months (government works slow and there were time variables outside my control) all was settled. That foresight and sense of reassurance that everything was already taken care of and all would be okay meant everything in the world to us. Maybe that's the kind of reassurance your family needs as well?

You have asked for guidance and our thoughts and you've gotten some pretty sage words of wisdom. Ultimately, whatever you do is your decision and you have to be comfortable with whatever decisions you make. As you said, you're at peace and will accept whatever happens. Make sure they know and understand that too.

Mike

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I guess it depends on what your definition of "risky behavior" is. Your definition might be different than mine. Also, you mention a family. What kind of family are we talking about? Do you have kids? How many? How old? How old are you? What is the current economic status of your family? Is your income an integral part of your day-to-day lives such that if they were to lose it, they would suffer great harm?

Then there's the stuff you can't put a price on such as the emotional and psychological support you give to your family. It's of my opinion that to say "get over it and move the hell on with life. And if you can't do that? Sorry, not my problem." seems exceedingly selfish. If you want to be selfish and live your live only for yourself, then stay single. The moment you take on a family, now you're effing with other people's lives. They didn't sign on for this. They didn't want to be attached to a person whom they love so dearly who would, at the same time, treat their life in such a disposable manner. You want to throw your life away (or whatever other name you want to give it: "Living on the edge", etc), then do it on your own time. When you made the conscious decision to bring other people into your life, then you owe it to them to BE THERE FOR THEM. Anything short of that is, indeed, selfish. If I could think of a word that is stronger than "selfish", then I'd definitely use it here.

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I say you smell like elderberries.

Oh, not what you meant. You have to live your life. Accommodate your family as you will but don't let them make you give up on living as you want. My younger brother died riding a motorcycle twelve years ago. While I still miss him dearly, I take comfort he died doing what he enjoyed. Our parents made it clear they didn't like us kids riding motorcycles for just this reason, but they had to let us live our lives.

Edited by Slartibartfast
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My thought is to ask "what burden would my passing cause to others?" It sounds like you don't have children yet so that's not an issue for now. Once we had our first child, my whole attitude about death and life changed dramatically, as I think it should. If you have others that depend on you, REALLY depend on you, to be there and to support them and basically keep them alive; then yes, imho it's selfish to at least not consider what would happen and take care of that need. As far as the other stuff, take care of whatever needs would come along once you're gone and then have a ball. And make sure your loved ones know that you lived life to the fullest and help them take comfort in that fact.

Bill

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So what "risks" are we talking about? Is it weekly Russian Roulette with the boys? Have you taken up tightrope walking? Are we talking about foolish risks or things that are perceived by others to be dangerous? Good heavens, You could be taken out by some Bozo yakking on his cell on our highways.

Just asking

Paul

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Thank you all so much for the replies. I'm 35 years old don't have children, and yes, I am very fortunate to have a family that loves and cares about me as much as they do. This story here kind of sums up the basic gist of what I'm getting at by taking a risk or two, and not being afraid of what "might" happen. For years, I've wanted to get a tattoo. Not a gigantic sleeve, nothing overly huge, nothing that was going to take hours up on hours up on days to do, but just something small and simple. It kind of got put on the back burner, but recently I revisited the idea. I went to a shop, talked to an artist to look further into it, and I felt it was appropriate to come clean and explain to them my issue...I have a heart/lung condition which makes me more susceptible to infection, and I'm on a blood thinner, which makes me a bleeding risk. The artist explained to me that he would need an OK from my doctor saying that I'm good to go before he could do anything, but if I got that, he would be glad to work on me. Next time I visited my cardiologist, I asked him "hey doc, I'm interested in getting some ink done, but the shop wants an 'OK' from you. Is that cool?" This was how the conversation went...

Doc: I don't think so. With blood thinners and risk of infection involved, unless you're having it done in a hospital, I just think it's too risky.

Me: Can you explain?

Doc: First, you're on a blood thinner. We'd have to stop the blood thinners about 4-5 days prior to the work, which increases your chance for a stroke. If you don't stop the blood thinner, the bleeding could get bad. Second, an infection for you is much more dangerous than an infection for a healthy person. You'd have a difficult time fighting that infection off. I'm not saying the shop is dirty or anything, but no matter how clean and reputable this shop is, it's not going to be as sterile as an operating room, so, no matter how you slice it, the risk of infection is much higher. With your condition, I just don't think it's a good idea.

Me: Is it really that risky, though? I mean, what's the chances of something bad happening?

Doc: Honestly, I don't know what the chances of something happening are, but if something did happen, it would be really bad.

Me: But I'm OK with all that. If something bad does happen, then, hey, it is what it is.

After hearing that, of course my family sides with what the doctor said ("look, we know this was something you wanted to do, but is it worth possibly risking your life for it?"). Yeah, I kind of thought it was worth the risk. I was perfectly OK with it. I still think about just finding a different shop and artist and just not saying anything about my issues at all, and whatever happens, happens.

With me, it's not so much wanting to engage in Russian Roulette-type risky behaviors, it's more of just always wanting more. Like I said, pushing as close to the edge as I possibly can. Prime example of that: I enjoy going to the gym to work out. With my heart, I'm not "supposed" to lift anything too heavy. Doc said around 30 lbs. is enough for me. I'm the type of person that's going to go "OK, there's 30 lbs. and I'm fine. I could probably go 35 lbs." and so on and so forth. I see it as "Well, I've got away with doing such-and-such without any negative repercussions for such a long time, so, hey, it must be OK keep pushing it." and my family sees it as "Yeah, you've got away with doing such-and-such for a long time with nothing bad happening, but one of these days..."

Again, thanks again to everybody who chimed in here.

Edited by TomcatFanatic123
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The tattoo idea is interesting. You could go to the shop and not stop your blood thinners and the guy begins doing the artwork and notices...hummm....you really seem to be bleeding more than the average person. A little while later he's having to stop doing the artwork because of all the blood etc.

I'm fascinated by the mechanics of the idea and how to make it happen without putting you at increased risk.

Your Doctor of course would have to say no and it is easier for him to just say no and leave it at that than to wander down a risky path and try to find a way to make it possible without it being too risky. Just saying no to you is so much easier for him.

I knew a guy that was a type 1 diabetic. At the age of 12 a Doctor told his Mom he couldn't expect to live past 30 (Doctor said this in front of the 12 year old diabetic). He heard this and figured he had nothing to lose and began smoking and doing drugs and eventually became a heroine addict and did many years in prison for various crimes. He pumped his body so full of various chemicals and aged himself very quickly. At 46 he got cancer of the pancreas and died. To this day I can't help but wonder how much his destructive lifestyle might have brought on his cancer and early death.

He always credits the Doctor's comment with the poor path in life he chose. He never did anything positive in life and had a negative impact on everyone life he touched.

No one really knows when you will die....they can simply guess. Live a good life and try to extend it so you can do more and more things you want.

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I'm like you. Want to do as much as possible before I check out and push the limits a bit.

I pushed my body to the limit with triathlon, and did some damage which I'm now paying for @ 52, but my last race (@ 48) was my best and beyond what I thought I could ever achieve.

Over the past 4yrs of health issues, I've learned doctors are very conservative. This woman was told she'd never run again by her doctors - http://www.womansday.com.au/real-life/true-life-stories/turia-pitt-completes-ironman-triathlon-15262

I was told in my 20's to drop triathlon because of a bad back, but I got 25yrs out of it, before my knees finally knocked me out. Recently one told me to take up drawing. I chose to do more fly-fishing instead.

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Get the damned tattoo. Just like the tattoo artist, all the Doc is trying to do is prevent you or your family from suing him if something bad does happen. Ask him how the risks of you getting a tattoo compares to the risk posed to you by his own profession - the US healthcare system needlessly kills 120,000 people each year due to preventable medical errors.

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Get the damned tattoo. Just like the tattoo artist, all the Doc is trying to do is prevent you or your family from suing him if something bad does happen. Ask him how the risks of you getting a tattoo compares to the risk posed to you by his own profession - the US healthcare system needlessly kills 120,000 people each year due to preventable medical errors.

Spot on Vince. As does the Australian health care system, along with scaring people out of the more fulfilling life they could have had (and my father was a GP). I've learned over the last 4yrs the best person who knows what I can and can't do with my body is me.

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This is just me playing devil's advocate here. I'm just going to the extreme for discussion and thoughtful ruminations: Get the tattoo. Then, after the infection sets in and you and your family have their finances decimated trying to keep you alive, ask yourself if the tattoo was worth all of it.

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My two cents, I don't think its fair to get a tattoo knowing the risks and not telling the tattoo artist before hand. Its your choice to get a tattoo and suffer the potential consequences as you have argued here, the artist should also be accorded the same choice to carry out the artwork or refuse based on your circumstances. Should something bad happen that artist will have to live with it for the rest of their life and not informing them ahead of time and being forthcoming with them (i.e. completely honest) would be selfish on your part and not at all fair to the artist.

Again...my two cents.

Edited by Don
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This is just me playing devil's advocate here. I'm just going to the extreme for discussion and thoughtful ruminations: Get the tattoo. Then, after the infection sets in and you and your family have their finances decimated trying to keep you alive, ask yourself if the tattoo was worth all of it.

OR: Get the tattoo. Then, after it's completed and there's been no adverse effects, sit back and think to yourself 'What a great tattoo. It sure was worth it'.

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Your wish to "live on the edge" rang a bell with me. While I've done many risky things in my 78 years, they've almost always been well thought out before I did them. As I've grown older, I've realized that the edge is a relative place, and living there has its ups and downs, as this story illustrates: I was in the lead, crossing a big parking lot with my wife and brother, on our way to have lunch at a restaurant. Our car was parked on the street beside the parking lot. Instead of staying on the sidewalk that led to the street, I headed straight for the car, which was only half as far away, due to my short-cut. We were making good time, zig-zagging our way around parked cars and bushes. The car was just across the street from us, and I was feeling proud of having saved us a long walk. Over my shoulder I said, "I like living on the edge." The next thing I knew, I was on my face on the sidewalk. I hadn't noticed that the parking lot was higher than the sidewalk. I had stepped off a 12-inch ledge! By the time we had driven around for an our, looking for a walk-in clinic, and I finally got the cut over my eye sewn up (the cut caused by my 180-dollar sunglasses breaking and gouging into my forehead), we were out of the mood for lunch, so we went home. Living on the edge isn't all it's hyped up to be.

I think it's healthy need to live a little dangerously, but you need to ask yourself, "If this goes bad, am I going to be a burden to anyone? And "Would I be able to live with myself?"

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Does your heart condition mean you could have a heart attack and need CPR? Does your GF and family know what to do if that happens?

I think you need to find balance....you need to live your life...but not be too reckless and try to do things that will improve your health.....exercising or resting or eating certain food...I do know eating a big steak before bed is bad if you have a weak heart because red meat takes much energy to digest and this can cause a heart attack in your sleep eating a steak before bed.

So out of consideration of them you could be proactive with your health as much as you can.

BUT....you do need to live your life.

Story time.

I had a friend....big alcoholic....never settled down...womanizer....got a girl pregnant and never knew it until the son showed up 20 years later. He just abused his health all his life. At 52 he had a massive heart attack...should have killed him......but he lived but had a very weak heart after that. He met a quiet woman and decided to settle down and do the family thing.....stopped drinking...had a daughter at 53 and always lived with the thought today could be my last. He watched his weight....lived a good life and died at 80 of cancer.

Don't forget to live your life, but also try to extend your life as much as you can...life is a gift to be enjoyed as long as we can. And don't forget you could make another persons life much better with your input in their life.

Never assume you won't live a long time....you could very well live much longer than you or your Doctor expect.

Steve,

I've been told by my doctor to expect anything to happen at any time. He said it could be a quick, within seconds, before-you-can-blink, CPR-may-save-you-but-probably-not type event (which is an annoyance, because I really would like to go travel by myself, and I happen to enjoy my solitude a lot, but that's "discouraged" because of this possibility), or a slow, gradual downturn in my health over time, or something totally unrelated to my heart problem, but is brought on by a weakened immune system (i.e. a bad infection, out of control common cold, serious bout of the flu, etc.). When I was a patient at UCLA and Stanford, I made a lot of those doctors look silly, because without a heart/lung transplant, they said I was a goner by time time I was 18, 19, or if I got lucky, maybe 21. I chose then not to have the transplant and make do with my original organs. The doctors tried to convince me to go transplant, but in my mind, the cons outweighed the pros, because according to the numbers, within 5 years after a heart/lung transplant, the majority of recipients are either looking for a new set, or worse, and 3 years after that, the same thing, and so on. Well, I'm 35 years old now, still have my same heart, same lungs, and in my opinion, strong as hell. Yes, I had one "near miss" about 12 years or so ago, which was horrid, but I fought like a madman and won (come to think of it, I kind of blame that "near miss" for making me a cocky as I am, sometimes feeling like I can do or get away with more than I probably should...LOL).

Edited by TomcatFanatic123
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This is just me playing devil's advocate here. I'm just going to the extreme for discussion and thoughtful ruminations: Get the tattoo. Then, after the infection sets in and you and your family have their finances decimated trying to keep you alive, ask yourself if the tattoo was worth all of it.

This was among the things the family brought up as well. And a friend of mine who happens to be an RN and agreed with my doc said "I see the way you're thinking. The infection would just kill you nice and quick and it'd be over and done. That'd be great, but you could end up laying in a hospital for two, three, six months or even years, just slowly getting life sucked out of you. Yeah, sure none of that may happen, but what if it does?"

Edited by TomcatFanatic123
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To chime back in a little here. I know this won't be a popular thing to say but oh well, I have to admit that I'm likely biased about this particular case because well, I really don't "get" the whole tattoo thing. Don't get me wrong, I don't look down on those that have them, and I really can appreciate the artistry and craftsmanship that some tattoo artist exhibit. I've seem some that are AMAZING. I even somewhat understand the desire to get them. But some people are, I think, overly obsessed on getting them strictly because they think it makes them a rebel. It reminds me of the George Carlin joke about everyone getting a piercing to be different. It ain't different if everyone is doing it.

Now don't get me wrong and please don't take offense at this, but I think maybe look deep and see WHY you really feel you want to get a tattoo. I mean what is the root of your drive to get one? I don't mean to get all Freud on ya, but if the reason is because it's symbolizing your resistance and thumbing your nose at your condition, then maybe there are other ways of doing that that won't create the tension and concern from your loved ones. I think having fun in life and living it to the fullest is great. I think finding ways to taunt death just for the sake of saying you can, maybe not the best route. But again, it is YOUR life. Just my 2 cents. I totally admire your for the strength you've shown thus far and what you've gone through. Good luck and God bless.

Bill

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