For Martin@ AMK Keep The F-14 Release on Schedule

[madmanrick]

Darren, not to worry I understood your "post count" statement. I also agreed with most, if not all of what you said in your various posts. I guess at this point anything else would be...

Rick

[madmanrick]

Also, I would not have objected to Pancho's post about panel lines, if he was pointing out errors on CAD drawings or even test shots. But, he is analyzing production plastic and criticizing well after the point that corrections can and will be made. Once again, I will stipulate that I have yet to see a 100% accurate kit. I've seen some that are fairly close and I've seen some that are a sad waste of fossil fuels. I am no rivet counter and I do fall in the IILGIS camp and I believe the AMK MiG-31 is close enough for my tastes. I build "models" and I haven't yet had one fire up the 'fans and sortie. So if a few small access panels and panel lines are off, well I can live with that. What I personally like about AMK's approach so far, is their interactions with their customers. I also have some personal knowledge of their after the fact customer support, which is private and will remain so, which has led me to believe they are a company that wants and has earned my $$$. Enough said. Back to..... :deadhorse1:/>

Edited May 17, 2016 by madmanrick

[kellyF15]

Whoops

Edited May 17, 2016 by kellyF15

[MoFo]

their 1/48 "C" Eagle the "Maloney's Pony" kit left many Eagle lovers disappointed with the detail and overall mold design the clam shell top and bottom fuselage assembly had some scratching their collective heads and asking WDTDT...when every other Eagle kit went with the side x side approach.

?

Their F-15 was the second 1/48 Eagle on the market. And most of the 1/72 F-15 kits actually had the clam shell design - Airfix, Hasegawa and Revell all went with simple upper/lower fuselage halves; only Monogram's kits (72 and 48) had a separate forward fuselage.

[dehowie]

Firstly the AMK Mig-31 is a very very good model..I'm not just saying that I bought 3 Late's and two earlies so my wallet has spoken.

The lack of rational analysis of the kit and where it really stands from some guys who are very astute modellers is surprising.

The best review I have seen on it was from Phil Flory.

Yes it's an outstanding product and the company ie Martin is fantastic but it's not perfect in fact it has some issues(yes small but still issues). That does not lower its value or people's opinions of AMK because overall it's a great product.

I am super happy with Tamiyas F-14 decisions simply because it will be very different to AMK's.

That means everyone wins.

You want to build a clean F-14 out of box and you go Tamiya route.

You want the whole box and dice you can buy AMK.

With so many awesome schemes you will be buying more than one I mean I have 8 Hobbyboss kits for different markings timeframes etc.

So you go Tamiya for quick build and you will get a gorgeous out of box simple build.

For launch dioramas, in flight or parked flaps down etc all dirtied up you go AMK.

I just don't understand why people have come out so harshly against Tamiya when all they are doing is maintaining there sop.

The F-16 is simple, clean and detailed which us exactly what the F-14 will be.

The very guys hammering them have for years posted about how nice the F-16 is yet now an identically themed F-14 is somehow substandard.

Talk about contradictory the F-16 is most awesome but an improved level of detail(gear bays and cockpit are superior to F-16) Tomcat is somehow inferior?

Hey I'm super happy we now will have two lovely F-14's coming that are both philosophically different and will allow for two entirely different style of builds.

It truly is the best of both worlds so why complain?

Edited May 17, 2016 by dehowie

[phantomdriver]

Let me ask is it fair to say; that no kit maker is above reproach?. IIRC Tamiya has dropped the ball so to speak on other occasions; such as their 1/48 Sea Harrier FRS Mk 1, a kit I stayed away from, and from personal experience their 1/48 "C" Eagle the "Maloney's Pony" kit left many Eagle lovers disappointed with the detail and overall mold design the clam shell top and bottom fuselage assembly had some scratching their collective heads and asking WDTDT...when every other Eagle kit went with the side x side approach. The Tamiya 1/48 Vipers are some of the best in class; if not the best, but even mighty Tamiya isn't infallible; past laurels aren't enough to guarantee future successes. It does give those who want to build a Tomcat in 48th another option to consider.

My thoughts exactly.....

[CF104]

Let me ask is it fair to say; that no kit maker is above reproach?. IIRC Tamiya has dropped the ball so to speak on other occasions; such as their 1/48 Sea Harrier FRS Mk 1, a kit I stayed away from, and from personal experience their 1/48 "C" Eagle the "Maloney's Pony" kit left many Eagle lovers disappointed with the detail and overall mold design the clam shell top and bottom fuselage assembly had some scratching their collective heads and asking WDTDT...when every other Eagle kit went with the side x side approach. The Tamiya 1/48 Vipers are some of the best in class; if not the best, but even mighty Tamiya isn't infallible; past laurels aren't enough to guarantee future successes. It does give those who want to build a Tomcat in 48th another option to consider.

So you're passing judgment on Tamiya by drawing a parallel to kits that were originally released 38 years ago in the case of the F-15 and 34 years ago for the FRS.1. In my opinion these kit's weren't that bad back then and held their own against the competition. You'd have a point if these were much more recent releases but I feel you're grasping at straws here.

Cheers,

John

[ChesshireCat]

Personally I think Tamiya screwed up (and probably AMK). Yes every body wanted a new hi-tech F14, but there were some other air frames begging and begging! At least once a year I read two or more pages of post asking for a good F111. For years and years the folks have begged for a new Hi-Tech F100d. The trumpeter kit uses the number, but is not even distantly close. Somebody else finally came out with the F18c, but both of you could have done that one as well. How about an F104c or the RF101 series? I mean to say that it's not like we only have a couple subjects to pick from! We probably have close to a hundred jets to choose from!

Myself, I have zero interest in an F14a+ or F14b. Still others here will. The "d" model maybe. I want a Wolfpack F14 that buzzed the embassy. Nothing else will do!

The Tamiya kit looks very nice, and lets hope they also do it in 1/72 scale (Fujimi kits are getting near impossible to find). Still if AMK or Tamiya were to simply scale down their 1/48th kits; the world will be all over them! By the way the world is still hunting for Intruders in 1/72 scale!

I'll be on here for another 15 minutes. Then in another 15 minutes I'll order in an AMK Mig31 something or other (probably the late). Why? I like it and I got to see one that was bought at a modeling show awhile back.

gary

[Gene K]

... lets hope they also do it in 1/72 scale (Fujimi kits are getting near impossible to find).

As usual, the "big" Japanese and Chinese model companies seem to all but ignore the 1/72 goldmine.

We small scalers had high hopes when Fine Molds came out with their superb F-14D last year. However, the frustrating marketing scheme (released in " segments" with 3 separate issues of a magazine (four if you want the weapons sprue)) severely restricted availability ... and it appears the kit can't be released without the magazine which supposedly owns the rights. Great for magazine sales, but absurd for model sales!!!

For those interested, there's an excellent four part review here, and a very good multi part video review

. And no, the Fine Molds kit doesn't have separate slats/flaps.

Gene K

Edited May 18, 2016 by Gene K

[Craig Baldwin]

As usual, the "big" Japanese and Chinese model companies seem to all but ignore the 1/72 goldmine.

We small scalers had high hopes when Fine Molds came out with their superb F-14D last year. However, the frustrating marketing scheme (released in " segments" with 3 separate issues of a magazine (four if you want the weapons sprue)) severely restricted availability ... and it appears the kit can't be released without the magazine which supposedly owns the rights. Great for magazine sales, but absurd for model sales!!!

For those interested, there's an excellent four part review here, and a very good multi part video review

. And no, the Fine Molds kit doesn't have separate slats/flaps.

Gene K

I remember the pre release story about that kit. Did you get yours hands on one? To me the price was not too bad considering the magazines were usually quite good for photos.

[Gene K]

Did you get yours hands on one?

Yes! But am reluctant to build it considering the reasonable availability of another "set" ... so I just periodically fondle the plastic . HLJ has 2 out of three of the Model Graphix magazines (the Aug and Sep 2015, but not the July 2015), and HLJ also has the Scale Aviation Vol 107 weapons.

So for around $80, you can get the model ,,, if you can round up all the issues.

A downsized AMK kit would be "nice", but doubtful given current trends.

Gene K

Edited May 18, 2016 by Gene K

[ChesshireCat]

As usual, the "big" Japanese and Chinese model companies seem to all but ignore the 1/72 goldmine.

We small scalers had high hopes when Fine Molds came out with their superb F-14D last year. However, the frustrating marketing scheme (released in " segments" with 3 separate issues of a magazine (four if you want the weapons sprue)) severely restricted availability ... and it appears the kit can't be released without the magazine which supposedly owns the rights. Great for magazine sales, but absurd for model sales!!!

For those interested, there's an excellent four part review here, and a very good multi part video review

. And no, the Fine Molds kit doesn't have separate slats/flaps.

Gene K

Now think about this; What would the modeling world do if AMK simply scaled down their Migs to 1/72 scale? In my stash, there are probably five Fujimi Intruders, and maybe three or four Scooters. The A7 and F8 have eluded me for eons. When I goto a model show and visit the vendor area, I first look for the name Fujimi. I look for their jets in 1/72, and BF109's in 1/48th. Now I find that I'm not the only one!! I don't know if this falls into Jennings catch all phrase of "It's a license to print money!" But they will come. A fine example is to look at Airfix and Revell with their 1/72 scale multi engine bombers from WWII. They sell well.

A couple years back I decided I wanted to build about four F100d's in 1/72 scale. Well allow me to tell you the picking's are next to none! I bought two Trumpter F1oo's, and found two Italeri kits. The Italeri kit was by far the best, and yet left me wanting some more out of it. Guess Fujimi spoiled me.

A few years back I bought a 1/72 scale RA5c Vigilante from Trumpeter. What a piece of junk for a land mark airframe!!!! Ripped my heart like it were nothing. Marten, you need to look this one over. If Tamiya can do very nice F16's and Zvezda can do the SU27 in 1/72; you can do the F14a in 1/72 scale.

gary

[MoFo]

Speaking of schedules, I just noticed something interesting:

If memory serves, Martin originally said the kit would be released ‘summer 2016’, IIRC. Three months from today would be 30 August - which is getting towards the end of 'summer 2016'. If we use the MiG-31 development as a benchmark, how does it compare?

Well... the MiG-31 was released around 20 November. Three months before the kit was released, AMK posted pics and a test build of the production intake and engine sprues. And they had posted shots of the wing, fuselage, tail and engine tooling a week previous. CAD was *finished* five months before the release date. Completed (injected) missiles were shown off 8 months before release, and the first CAD for the project was unveiled 12 months before the kit hit. The first public mention that they were working on the kit was some 20 months before the release date.

So, either they’ve started keeping development under their hats (though, the constant leaks are what led to so much excitement about the MiG), OR they are totally going to miss the announced release date. Which is pretty typical for model manufacturers, even the established big names, but it's probably a good idea to manage expectations a bit. Since we haven't seen *anything* tangible yet, it seems pretty unlikely we'll see the AMK Tomcat this year.

[Rex]

Gary, I can save you some time and money.

You really don't want the Fujimi F-8. Unless you just want it to round out a collection.

Last fall, on another forum, I "threatened" to send one to the forum owner,,,,,,,,he said he'd return it unopened. We got a good laugh out of that. That is because that kit is not at all like any of their current offerings, it fits more in line with Fujimi's Skyraider.

To get a "Fujimi/Hasegawa quality" Crusader today, in 1/72, get the Academy and use the Furball decal sheet on it.

[ChesshireCat]

Gary, I can save you some time and money.

You really don't want the Fujimi F-8. Unless you just want it to round out a collection.

Last fall, on another forum, I "threatened" to send one to the forum owner,,,,,,,,he said he'd return it unopened. We got a good laugh out of that. That is because that kit is not at all like any of their current offerings, it fits more in line with Fujimi's Skyraider.

To get a "Fujimi/Hasegawa quality" Crusader today, in 1/72, get the Academy and use the Furball decal sheet on it.

I'm glad you told me that! I happen to know where a pair of F8's are setting in the 25% off bin! Love to do an RF8 and a good RA5c in 1/72 scale. I bought the Trumpeter, and if I said was bad; that would be a compliment!

gary

[habu2]

Gary, I can save you some time and money.

You really don't want the Fujimi F-8. Unless you just want it to round out a collection.

I heartily second this. Get the Academy kit instead.

[Scooby]

Have a look at Hasegawa's F-104. Those rivets all over and especially on the wing are a bit of a pain but at least you can fill them.

I'd pass two Starfighters on the way to work everyday when the Hasegawa Starfighter was first produced. There certainly were circular indentations on the wings. Not rivets, but punched circular indentations. They were certainly visual.

But they were all over the wings:

Edited May 21, 2016 by Scooby

[Scooby]

So you equate this critique of a model kit, put out by a corporate entity, to "It would be like me coming into your house while you were building a model and have me start telling you everything you were doing wrong and how ridiculous it is for you to be doing it your way."? Like he's attacking your way of modeling and your way of enjoying the hobby??

I feel he's being snarky because it's quite silly how people go out of their way to worship a product like it is a faultless pinnacle of engineering graced to us by the gods. AMK can do no wrong and it will clearly be superior to that Tamiya crap, obviously.

What irks me about this is that he's not attacking your kids here, he's being snarky about a pile of plastic and while doing so happens to point out actual errors that people ironically seem to overlook. Upon doing so he gets tone policed, and his low post count is pointed out as if it would be okay to be snarky once he's one of the in-guys and part of the clique.

In the end I agree with him on the two points that I dislike about this kit, the engine mirroring and the overdone panel lines, which in my not so humble opinion does not live up to the Tamiya Mustang nor Corsair. Other than that I am on the same line as Berkut.

I love the BM/BSM and have the B/BS on order as well, and I will be getting the AMK effort of the F-14 too.

Remember, everything can be improved, offense is not given, it is taken.

Come on, we all know constructive criticism is the best. Darren was bang-on in his statement,

[Craig Baldwin]

I'd pass two Starfighters on the way to work everyday when the Hasegawa Starfighter was first produced. There certainly were circular indentations on the wings. Not rivets, but punched circular indentations. They were certainly visual.

But they were all over the wings:

Most of the fasteners you see in that image are larger screws and what looks like Jo-Bolts. Not your normal skin rivets.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Craig Baldwin

[skyhawk174]

Speaking of schedules, I just noticed something interesting:

If memory serves, Martin originally said the kit would be released ‘summer 2016’, IIRC. Three months from today would be 30 August - which is getting towards the end of 'summer 2016'. If we use the MiG-31 development as a benchmark, how does it compare?

Well... the MiG-31 was released around 20 November. Three months before the kit was released, AMK posted pics and a test build of the production intake and engine sprues. And they had posted shots of the wing, fuselage, tail and engine tooling a week previous. CAD was *finished* five months before the release date. Completed (injected) missiles were shown off 8 months before release, and the first CAD for the project was unveiled 12 months before the kit hit. The first public mention that they were working on the kit was some 20 months before the release date.

So, either they’ve started keeping development under their hats (though, the constant leaks are what led to so much excitement about the MiG), OR they are totally going to miss the announced release date. Which is pretty typical for model manufacturers, even the established big names, but it's probably a good idea to manage expectations a bit. Since we haven't seen *anything* tangible yet, it seems pretty unlikely we'll see the AMK Tomcat this year.

Mike

Thanks for the time line. Always good to know stuff like this I think since it shows how long things take to get done. Personally when it gets released, it gets released. A good saying I try to live by is "Do you want it fast or do you want it accurate?". I would settle for accurate even if it takes longer.

[Scooby]

Most of the fasteners you see in that image are larger screws and what looks like Jo-Bolts. Not your normal skin rivets.

Yes, I couldn't remember the name for them, I knew they weren't rivets.

The Starfighters team were at our base for an airshow, both are ex-RCAF CF-104s. They had gloss white wings and you could still see them.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Scooby

[MoFo]

Personally when it gets released, it gets released. A good saying I try to live by is "Do you want it fast or do you want it accurate?". I would settle for accurate even if it takes longer.

Oh I totally agree. But given the subject of the thread is 'please keep it on schedule', I was mostly just trying to point out that - based on their previous releases - they probably aren't going to make that schedule anyway. Most likely, we'll have to wait a quite a while before the kit is released.

[B.Sin]

Oh I totally agree. But given the subject of the thread is 'please keep it on schedule', I was mostly just trying to point out that - based on their previous releases - they probably aren't going to make that schedule anyway. Most likely, we'll have to wait a quite a while before the kit is released.

That's okay with me, as long as they get it right.

[Red14]

That's okay with me, as long as they get it right.

Word.

[B.Sin]

Word.

Yes. LOL