Latest "right" colors for AVG P-40B?

[Space Tiger Hobbes]

I've looked through several reviews and tapped out on a search here and I've seen a bunch of colors for AVG-P-40Bs. Help please for the latest thinking re. the cockpit, gear wells, cockpit canopy frame interior color, and exterior camo colors, preferably using Model Master colors? It will be my first P-40. Thanks for any assistance.

[LDSModeller]

I've looked through several reviews and tapped out on a search here and I've seen a bunch of colors for AVG-P-40Bs. Help please for the latest thinking re. the cockpit, gear wells, cockpit canopy frame interior color, and exterior camo colors, preferably using Model Master colors? It will be my first P-40. Thanks for any assistance.

If you are referring to the P 40B's supplied from RAF orders to the AVG, then the colours will be RAF TLS (Temperate Land Scheme)painted in Colours manufactured in the USA most probably DuPont

For the outer camouflage it would be Dark Earth/Dark Green/Duck Egg Blue aka Sky Type S*.

In December 1940 an AMO was issued by the British Air Ministry for the above colours* to be on British Produced Fighter aircraft and also " any American Aircraft" in British Air Forces service ( I can supply AMO number if you wish). seeing as the AVG aircraft were ordered by the British Ministry Aircraft Production (prior to the hand over) then certainly TLS

Interestingly in early 1942 RNZAF/RAAF received P 40E-1's diverted from RAF orders (in the same above mentioned scheme) and this colour swatch from my collection shows what the above colours should look like. The lower colour is a Blue (very pale with greenish tinge) , As a side note the RNZAF P40E's arrived with Documents giving the DuPont colours including Roundel colours. And just in case some one tries to say the aircraft were repainted on arrival, that's nonsense

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Yff6LKWML1VS00MVFaR04ycjg/view?usp=sharing

Model Master paints, the closest (depending on how fastidious you want to be) RAF Dark Earth (not quite the right colour - don't let people quote you FS Numbers, didn't exist in WWII) The Dark Green- more difficult, as the Green is more a "Black Green" closest I would suggest at a push, USAF Dark Green or RLM 71.

For Duck Egg Blue MM4748 Duck Egg Blue

As far as the cockpit colours I would advise the colours as in these photos from RNZAF Hudsons (again diverted from RAF orders ex USA) - note the Blue Green colour This would cover canopy frames also

(Photos per permission of NR Mines)

I can only suggest with some white added, MM 2135 Interior Blue Green or MM RAF Interior Green at a push (but note it's too grey)

Wheel wells/interior (engine bay etc) Zinc Chromate Green - note the actual wheel well had liners (khaki would be my choice)

From Life Magazine

Hope that helps?

Regards

Alan

[Space Tiger Hobbes]

Thanks very much! Reading various reviews, you see 'they used British colors' or 'they used whatever close US colors they had.' Lots of debate about duck egg/sky s bottom vs light gray. Great pics. The first color pic looks like typical British interior green. The second looks almost like Cold War Soviet jet blue-green. Gear legs were aluminum lacquer or zinc chromate? Is there a good diagram showing exactly where the antenna lines came from on the vertical stab and went to on the fuselage and wings?

[WymanV]

To muddy up the water a bit, I posted this same question on Hyperscale quite a few years ago and got an email from a rather high profile modeler who has since left off scale modeling to pursue his music. Here's the relevant excerpt:

After discussing it with Lee Kolosna, Dana Bell and some other 'heavyweights' here's what we think is the definitive answer... For the uppers, FS 34079 as a stand-in for RAF Dark Green and FS 30118 Field Drab for the RAF Dark Earth. Undersides were painted FS 36473 ADC Gray.

I received the Osprey book on the AVG (loaded with color pics) while I was building Trumpeter's 1/32 P-40B/C/whatever and the colors look spot-on.

FWIW

Ken

[RCAFFAN]

As far as the cockpit colours I would advise the colours as in these photos from RNZAF Hudsons (again diverted from RAF orders ex USA) - note the Blue Green colour This would cover canopy frames also

I can only suggest with some white added, MM 2135 Interior Blue Green or MM RAF Interior Green at a push (but note it's too grey)

Why would you think planes built by Lockheed and planes built by Curtis would have the same interior colour? Not very likely at all.....I would think the upper wheel well colour in you "Wheel well canvas lining" picture would be much more likely...

Edited June 11, 2016 by RCAFFAN

[Space Tiger Hobbes]

Which to me would pass for light olive. I've refined my search terms or broadened them, not sure, but there's a lot of thought out there. The only think I'm sure of, probably, is that nobody could call you out on your color selection, but I think there are some good suggestions here, at least enough for me to go with on my build.

[LDSModeller]

Thanks very much! Reading various reviews, you see 'they used British colors' or 'they used whatever close US colors they had.' Lots of debate about duck egg/sky s bottom vs light gray. Great pics. The first color pic looks like typical British interior green. The second looks almost like Cold War Soviet jet blue-green. Gear legs were aluminum lacquer or zinc chromate? Is there a good diagram showing exactly where the antenna lines came from on the vertical stab and went to on the fuselage and wings?

The Undercart legs would be silver, remember these are British ordered and British paid for aircraft NOT Lend Lease, so RAF colours (US manufactured versions) would be painted on by Curtiss

Aerial - have a look at these

http://www.p40warhawk.com/Models/Technical/P40%20%20plans%204.GIF

In this diagram of the fin note the aerial attachment

http://www.p40warhawk.com/Models/Technical/Tail/Fin.gif

Regards

Alan

[LDSModeller]

To muddy up the water a bit, I posted this same question on Hyperscale quite a few years ago and got an email from a rather high profile modeler who has since left off scale modeling to pursue his music. Here's the relevant excerpt:

I received the Osprey book on the AVG (loaded with color pics) while I was building Trumpeter's 1/32 P-40B/C/whatever and the colors look spot-on.

FWIW

Ken

I have AVG colour photos too and I can also see Duck Egg Blue.

I would suggest having a read of the Posts in this link by a one Nick Millman, very well researched (he can be found on Britmodeller) and see what you think?

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/76155-american-volunteer-group-p-40-tomahawk-colours/page-2

Regards

Alan

[LDSModeller]

Why would you think planes built by Lockheed and planes built by Curtis would have the same interior colour? Not very likely at all.....I would think the upper wheel well colour in you "Wheel well canvas lining" picture would be much more likely...

As I stated to Space Tiger Hobbs in my post above, the P 40's and Hudsons were brought and paid for by British money.

The expectation was that US manufactured aircraft would have RAF type colours albeit US manufactured ones.

This Colour spec chart from DuPont, if you look at "Cockpit Light Green 71=036", really looks quite similar to the Lockhheed colours I posted above (from memory, Lockheed used Fullers paints)

Regards

Alan

[RCAFFAN]

You made my point yourself when you pointed out that you thought Lockheed used a different brand than Dupont. Curtis probably used another brand too. While there were standards, each company used their own paint supplier and the mixes were different. I know that in Canada there were at least 2 main paint manufacturers during the war and their colours were just not quite the same. In the US the choice of suppliers and variances would be even greater. Plus paints changed colour shades between batches even by the same manufacturer. Get close to whatever was supposed to be the standard and leave it at that as no one can know the right colour now, 75 years later....

[Space Tiger Hobbes]

Thanks for the replies, photos, and blueprints and I'm pretty ashamed now of my search skills. They've led me to more of the same on the Web. As well as some good build tips for the Monogram kit. The only sure thing seems to be AVG colors are a question with no exact answer. Research gives way to theory and speculation and finally to... spirited discussion. I've seen some likely candidate colors here for my build with the addition of a liberal final coat of Floquil 'dust.

[Jay Chladek]

In my opinion, if you get pretty dang close, you will likely be fine. Paint can be affected by so many environmental factors, especially in a hot/humid environment such as what the AVG typically flew in during those years. Plus, throw in typical modeling techniques of pre-shade, washes, filters, scale effect and the like, it can make for all sorts of different variations and appearances... and all could be just as "correct" in the paint choices.

[Space Tiger Hobbes]

Thanks, Jay,

I don't expect my cockpit green will be everyone's cockpit green. But I would like to make sure the chromate yellow parts are chromate yellow, the aluminum parts are aluminum, and the adjacent fuselage color part is the adjacent fuselage color. And even then, well, I tried. :-)