I became a little more cynical today

[Darren Roberts]

I was at Sprue Brothers helping sort through kits with missing parts that had been returned. After organizing and putting them on shelves, I began to see a disturbing trend. A great majority of these kits were missing clear parts. Others were missing individual parts off of sprues. It was quite obvious the part had been snipped off. I've been building models for over 40 years and I can count on one hand the kits that were missing parts. I don't think I've ever had a kit that didn't have clear parts. Yet there were dozens of kits missing those. The only conclusion I could reach is that modelers had screwed up, purchased the kit, taken the parts they needed out, and then returned it. That hurts everybody, from the local seller down through the distributor and manufacturer. If you mess up, man up and admit it. Go through the manufacturer and get a new part. If that can't be done, buy a new kit and chalk it up to a modeling lesson. All those kits that were returned now have to be processed and shipped back to the distributor from which they came. That takes time away from processing your orders and getting them out the door. If the kit is truly missing parts or has a short shot, then by all means try and get a replacement. But don't try and scam getting new parts when it was your doing. Sorry for lecturing, but I was simply astounded at the number of kits that had been returned. The kicker of it is I've seen requests for parts on the various forums. Guess what some of the kits were that I sorted through? The exact same kit missing the exact same part that someone had requested on the forums.

[falcon20driver]

Man, that just sucks. I smashed in my F-14 window recently and was fortunate enough to have a friend here send the part. However, I was prepared to buy another kit because it was MY FAULT. I guess every walk of life has "that guy". People, please don't be that guy.

Edit: Darren your a heck of a guy to help like that.

Edited June 17, 2016 by falcon20driver

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Agreed, you're a heckuva guy to help out.

As for the big question, it is such a HORRIBLY demoralizing thing when the bad side of humanity rears its ugly head, even in what might seem to many as such a tiny thing in the big picture. To me it's still part of it. Theft and dishonesty matters not in size.

[spejic]

I'm against the dishonesty your experience indicates, but I have had a kit come without clear parts. Fortunately Steven's International shipped me a replacement.

But I wonder if this is something kit manufacturers could remedy easily. If they include 2 canopies per kit, it would only cost them pennies per box but reduce a large amount of builder frustration and retailer/distributor losses. The Fujimi A-4 kits came with two canopies (one open, one closed) and that saved me from a lot of trouble.

[Don]

Way back when Monogram first issued their 1/48 F-101B Voodoo my copy came without the clear sprue. But, I wrote a letter to Monogram in Illinois (remember writing letters by hand, putting a stamp on them and mailing them... ) and within two weeks I got a letter back apologizing and the clear sprue. However, in 38+ years in the hobby I would say that its been a very rare occurrence that parts have been missing.

Shame on any modeler out there if they are indeed sending kits back falsely claiming missing pieces.

[ST0RM]

People will steal from their own mother nowadays. If it's not something in their face, its easy to do. No integrity.

[phantom]

I have sadly become rather cynical over the last 26 years..........Course I work in a prison and don't trust ANYONE anymore.

Sucks really, thats why I still go to church to lower the cynicism a little. Get the occasional bad guy there too.....But not as many percentage wise. Life really.

Kids these days...Lack of honour. And as Alvis points out, not all older folk have honour either.

Edited June 18, 2016 by phantom

[Alvis 3.1]

I work in a hobby shop, and that sort of thing really doesn't surprise me at all. As for "kids" having lack of honour, I tend to find the adults set bad examples and show incredible self interest over what is right a lot more than kids do. But then, maybe I'm getting more jaded.

Alvis 3.1

[dnl42]

I doubt kids are the cause of this problem. My observations are the hobby is greatly skewed to older adults. Yet another example of moral decay...

<rant>

This is especially sad since Sprue Bros are truly a stand-up operation. They helped me get a kit that the USPS tried their best to deny me. The fine USPS mis-delivered the package and then claimed it was delivered in the tracking. When I complained to the destination post office, they immediately jumped to the "it must have been stolen" line, which I'm certain is part of the training. More galling, they suggested I complain to the seller and demand they send another item. I walked out of the Post Office in disgust. Fast forward 3 months, and I get an email from Sprue asking for my correct address. Seems they received the package back from the USPS. When I replied asking them to reship to the original address, they noted "We have had more customers with problems with USPS lately. Hardly any with UPS. ... The box was beat up pretty bad so I repacked it and made sure the contents were fine. (Another common problem with USPS)." Adding insult to considerable injury, USPS tracking documented those knuckleheads at the post office returning the package to Sprue--after I complained it was never delivered.

</rant>

[Kurt H.]

I would have become quite frustrated performing the same task. The sad part is, If you are honest, sometimes you will get replacement parts. On four occasions, I wrote to one large manufacturer stating I lost a part, or messed up a decal sheet, and was willing to pay... and they sent the parts anyway.

The worst case I had to pay for a sprue from hasegawa, it was only like $5 and a quick phone call to the US distributor.

In the past 16-17 years when I have been in the hobby full time as an adult, I have purchased quite a few kits, and in this "modern era" of modeling for me, I have had 1 model car kit with a short shot body requiring replacement.

However, When I was younger, in the early 90s, I must have been on Revell/monograms radar, I went through 3-4 straight kits each missing 1 part. But, they always sent the parts with no fuss.

[Slartibartfast]

I received an Hobbycraft 1:32 P-51A Mustang from Sprue missing the canopy. Never heard back from Gordon after he said he'd look into it. I was fortunate that a fellow ARCer was able to help me out in the matter.

I have yet to open quite a few of the kits in my Strategic Styrene Reserve and don't know how prevalent missing parts or sprues might be.

[Gordon Shumway]

We live much more in a ME orientated and I'm entitled era right now. "If it's for me." "If I can get what I want." "I see no problem if it benefits me and even puts out others." etc. etc. etc.

I like to deal with much of this B.S. in my mind of what I see today by the thinking of these types of "me me me I'm entitled." dip*hits, is KARMA BABY, (bad) KARMA!

[midnightprowler]

The ones who pull this bs are the same ones usually who berate kit manufacturers when they want proof of purchase, etc for parts requests. It's thanks to them that they do. It makes it difficult then when one purchases a kit second hand from a store like Goodwill, or Salvation Army, etc, and you find missing parts to then get them.

[zerosystem]

Yes, the fun side of retail. Working Christmas time at a hobby shop can instill many life lessons about humanity...

I know it might be a bit of a task but rather than going back to the distributors could a profit be made by selling the left over parts trees?

How many times are people looking for a specific part, a seat, a set of wheels, exterior accessories?

[Dave Roof]

OK, I am going to play devil's advocate here.

A little over a year ago I bought a 1/48 Revell F-101B from Spruebrothers. I got the kit in a couple of days and opened the box. Inside that F-101B box was a Revell 1/48 F-14, complete with decals and instructions. This was obviously not Spruebrothers fault and the issue was quickly resolved. I've purchased kits in the past 30+/- years that have had two sets of clear parts, two left fuselage sides, missing decals, etc. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

My point is, without a single shred of actual proof, you're accusing modelers (and apparently modelers that frequent these very forums) of being dishonest thieves, without considering other possibilities. What you have at the moment is nothing more than your opinion of what you think is happening. That is not enough to publicly accuse pretty much everyone of doing what you're claiming, especially when it could be perceived as an indirect accusation made by Spruebrothers and/or Steel Beach.

Now, what happens when a customer buys one of your Steel Beach items and finds a broken or missing piece? Does he chalk it up as a loss knowing that he might be considered a liar/dishonest modeler if he tries to get a replacement part or return it?

I've worked retail grocery for the past six years. Never in a million years would I ever publicly accuse our customers of being dishonest. It just shouldn't be done, ever.

[Darren Roberts]

OK, I am going to play devil's advocate here.

A little over a year ago I bought a 1/48 Revell F-101B from Spruebrothers. I got the kit in a couple of days and opened the box. Inside that F-101B box was a Revell 1/48 F-14, complete with decals and instructions. This was obviously not Spruebrothers fault and the issue was quickly resolved. I've purchased kits in the past 30+/- years that have had two sets of clear parts, two left fuselage sides, missing decals, etc. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

Like I said in my post, if something is truly missing or wrong, try and get resolution.

My point is, without a single shred of actual proof, you're accusing modelers (and apparently modelers that frequent these very forums) of being dishonest thieves, without considering other possibilities. What you have at the moment is nothing more than your opinion of what you think is happening. That is not enough to publicly accuse pretty much everyone of doing what you're claiming, especially when it could be perceived as an indirect accusation made by Spruebrothers and/or Steel Beach.

Everyone? I've accused every single modeler of doing this? Indirect accusation made by Sprue Brothers and/or Steel Beach? Really? Nowhere did I say that. I think you're going a bit overboard on this. I made no accusations against anyone specific. I simply made a generalized statement about my observations. This isn't a court of law. No one is going to jail. Consider it a public service announcement. If you're trying to get parts that you lost or screwed up, it's not honest and it hurts people on the business side of it. If your kit came and it's messed up, contact who you can to get it taken care of. What's so accusatory about that? Let's sum my post with this...If the shoe fits, wear it.

Now, what happens when a customer buys one of your Steel Beach items and finds a broken or missing piece? Does he chalk it up as a loss knowing that he might be considered a liar/dishonest modeler if he tries to get a replacement part or return it?

I replace it and wish him fun building. I've already done that a couple of times. That's exactly what other companies do as well. Why do you think Revell/Monogram changed their policy for awhile so that you had to show proof you bought the kit? They didn't do that because they wanted to make life harder. They did that because so many people were requesting parts that they began to infer the same thing I did...that people were being dishonest. In the end, a company has to simply suck it up and count it as lost. It still doesn't make it right, though. In regards to the modeler not wanting to be considered dishonest, well I guess that's a personal decision. I can tell you from the amount of kits I sorted through, there were quite a few modelers who didn't consider that a problem.

I've worked retail grocery for the past six years. Never in a million years would I ever publicly accuse our customers of being dishonest. It just shouldn't be done, ever.

Good advice, if I'm actually representing a company. But I'm not. I'm just Joe Modeler who made an observation. However, on that point, if you have worked retail grocery you should know that theft goes on all the time. Of course a company isn't going to overtly say, "Customers, if you are stealing you will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law." You can bet, though, that every customer knows that the company says that implicitly. I think you've read way too much into this. Your comparisons are apples and oranges.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Darren Roberts

[Dave Roof]

Everyone? I've accused every single modeler of doing this? Indirect accusation made by Sprue Brothers and/or Steel Beach? Really? Nowhere did I say that. I think you're going a bit overboard on this. I made no accusations against anyone specific. I simply made a generalized statement about my observations.

By not making it against anyone specific and making it a generalized statement, then that would make it directed at everyone.

Good advice, if I'm actually representing a company. But I'm not. I'm just Joe Modeler who made an observation.

But you're not Joe Modeler. You're the owner of Steel Beach and you were working for Spruebrothers at the time. Whether you were 'on the clock' or not is irrelevant. The modeling public associates you with SB, not typically as 'joe modeler'. Also, when your company logo is your profile picture, you're speaking as, and representing Steel Beach.

I said I was playing devil's advocate. It's not personal, just a different perspective.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Dave Roof

[habu2]

When Darren describes instances where parts appear to have been cut from the sprue it's pretty obvious how the part went missing. So yeah I'd blame the modeler.

I was wondering if there was a pattern to the parties returning kits, i.e. one individual with multiple returns?

Hasegawa used to include two clear canopy sprues in their 1/48 F-16A/C kits but they seem to have discontinued that practice.

[Jinxter13]

Not to point a finger, it's just that scruples and morals these days are simply words in Websters, Funk & Wagnals, etc to describe how folks used to be. I've screwed the pooch on parts, but good ol' Revell has pulled my fat outta the fire, as has MPC, currently I'm waiting for a part from Hobbico/Hasegawa (whole sprue,factually) which I paid for. I just ain't right or honest to do it any other way, I just wouldn't feel good about myself..the parts don't cost that much to have them replaced.

[jinmmydel]

OK, I am going to play devil's advocate here.

A little over a year ago I bought a 1/48 Revell F-101B from Spruebrothers. I got the kit in a couple of days and opened the box. Inside that F-101B box was a Revell 1/48 F-14, complete with decals and instructions. This was obviously not Spruebrothers fault and the issue was quickly resolved. I've purchased kits in the past 30+/- years that have had two sets of clear parts, two left fuselage sides, missing decals, etc. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

My point is, without a single shred of actual proof, you're accusing modelers (and apparently modelers that frequent these very forums) of being dishonest thieves, without considering other possibilities. What you have at the moment is nothing more than your opinion of what you think is happening. That is not enough to publicly accuse pretty much everyone of doing what you're claiming, especially when it could be perceived as an indirect accusation made by Spruebrothers and/or Steel Beach.

Now, what happens when a customer buys one of your Steel Beach items and finds a broken or missing piece? Does he chalk it up as a loss knowing that he might be considered a liar/dishonest modeler if he tries to get a replacement part or return it?

I've worked retail grocery for the past six years. Never in a million years would I ever publicly accuse our customers of being dishonest. It just shouldn't be done, ever.

This. Baseless accusations and assumptions with no proof. Coming from just a random individual would be troubling enough. From a business owner, it makes me not want to buy their products. This thread was ill advised in my opinion.

[Darren Roberts]

This. Baseless accusations and assumptions with no proof. Coming from just a random individual would be troubling enough. From a business owner, it makes me not want to buy their products. This thread was ill advised in my opinion.

I'm sorry you feel that way. However, calling out dishonest behavior is never ill advised. Staying silent and not wanting to offend anyone is ill advised. My comments were directed at those who have done this. How is that a bad thing?

Edited June 18, 2016 by Darren Roberts

[dnl42]

I took Darren's comments exactly as described: an observation based on a reasonable sample. He didn't identify anybody by name. He did describe how parts appeared to be cut off or whole specific sprues were missing.

Lord knows I've lost parts and decals. In one case, I bought another kit to replace the missing part. In another case, I bought a vac canopy for a different manufacturer's kit and made it work. In other cases, like crudely molded or short shot parts, I scratch built or fixed the part. Revell was nice enough to just send a decal when I asked to purchase the one I lost. And just recently, I bought another decal sheet from a cottage resin kit manufacturer (I should have scanned the sheet before I started cutting it up).

While I don't know anybody who's done what Darren described, I did have a colleague who temporarily needed a larger shoe due to an injury. I was very disappointed--visibly so--when they described how they went to the store, swapped a shoe in two boxes, and bought one pair. When I asked "Why didn't you buy both and donate them to Goodwill or somebody when you were done?", they had this 'Why would I be so stupid?' look.

I accept Darren's observation. I agree with #1 Greywolf when he wrote scruples and morals are increasingly "how folks used to be."

Edited June 18, 2016 by dnl42

[Shadrik]

By not making it against anyone specific and making it a generalized statement, then that would make it directed at everyone.

I disagree. The opening post is clearly not directed at "all modelers". Yes, it is a generalization in the sense that it generalizes the people who

take the easy route to get replacement parts. But it does not generalize "the modelers".

I don't quite understand the commotion, it would be very surprising if a group as diverse as modelers did not contain thieves.

I used to frequent a modelshop many years ago and the owner had taken to the practice of taping all kits shut when he recieved them.

He did so because he found that the kits that were not shrink wrapped or taped shut would often lose parts. He had a small collection of Hasegawa kits

not taped or shrink wrapped) and they kept losing clear parts. That was back in the 80s.

This clearly is something that happens. I don't know how much or how often, but it happens.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Shadrik

[jinmmydel]

Allow me to clarify. What I was trying to say is that if I were in your position, Darren, I'd be a little nervous about posting about this with no more evidence than presented. That being said, I firmly believe your suspensions are correct. I just get nervous about these types of things myself being professionally associated with certain entities in the hobby, I always worry they will harm my reputation, and that of those I represent. My comments were more of concern for your image than anything. I didn't mean to imply you've lost a customer in me, or that I have ill will toward you personally for your observations. I probably shouldn't have posted in such haste. I realize my true intent wasn't all that clear, so my apologies to you.

[Bob Beary]

Class act in that reply.