chuck540z3 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I have a question for the Eagle experts. According to Jake's Eagle books, the Eagle engines went from the F100-PW-100 engine to the more reliable 220 engine, which is now on most F-15A/B/C & D versions, as well as some F-15E's. On the heavier F-15E, the Increased Performance Engine (IPE) 229 engine is on many jets, but not all. Fine. Now the query. Here's a pic of my current modeling subject, an Aggressor F-15C, taken in Nov, 2007 at Nellis. Note the front of the engine intake which is not covered for a change... A shot from the front of the intake.... A shot of the front fan.... Now the curious discovery. According to a few pics in Jake's Modern Eagle Guide books (#1 and #2), this is the front of the IPE 229 engine- on an F-15C! Since this is an Aggressor Eagle and no doubt needs some extra oomph to dogfight almost every day, it would make sense that the engines might be upgraded, but I want to make sure before I commit to engine intake and exhaust options that are unique to the 229. Anybody know for sure if this a 229? Thanks, Chuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Great pix, thanx...great refs for painting and weathering the fans :thumbsup:/> looks like you add a little tan to the white and you can weather the intake tunnel...or one might say that's the dirtiest white ever seen; I mean egg shell, or Navajo white isn't that dark. I wonder if it's the friction of the air being pulled in that heats the paint and in a sense singes it to make it dark. Edited June 21, 2016 by #1 Greywolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Don't the -229s have extra scoops on the sides of the CFTs on the F-15E? I'm not sure how to tell on a Charlie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CF104 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I've never heard of the F-15C being approved for the -229 engine or ever having flown with one. The 'air in' side of the -220 and -229 are virtually indistinguishable. I'm pretty certain that what you're seeing is a F-15C with the -220 engine. Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 I've never heard of the F-15C being approved for the -229 engine or ever having flown with one. The 'air in' side of the -220 and -229 are virtually indistinguishable. I'm pretty certain that what you're seeing is a F-15C with the -220 engine. Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 Cheers, John Thanks John. Either some of the pics on the 'net are wrong, or "The Modern Eagle Guide" is wrong. It doesn't get any clearer than this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falconxlvi Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Chuck, I trust Jake and love the book too, but the picture on the left is not what the front of any -220 motor I have been around looks like. As others have said, the front of the engine is indistinguishable from the -229. The -220 face also features the pointed nose like the picture on the right above. FWIW, I work at Seymour Johnson and all we have here are -220s. As with all things, it's possible that timeframe matters here - maybe this was an older version of the -220 photographed? I did a quick Google search and saw many pics on the net of -220s with both engine faces. All I can speak from is experience. The -220 powered F-15Es at Mountian Home and Seymour Johnson all have engine faces that look indistinguishable from a -229. Also, I hate saying "never", but I have never heard of or seen any -229 equipped C models. Steve Edited June 22, 2016 by Falconxlvi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Chuck, I trust Jake and love the book too, but the picture on the left is not what the front of any -220 motor I have been around looks like. As others have said, the front of the engine is indistinguishable from the -229. The -220 face also features the pointed nose like the picture on the right above. FWIW, I work at Seymour Johnson and all we have here are -220s. As with all things, it's possible that timeframe matters here - maybe this was an older version of the -220 photographed? I did a quick Google search and saw many pics on the net of -220s with both engine faces. All I can speak from is experience. The -220 powered F-15Es at Mountian Home and Seymour Johnson all have engine faces that look indistinguishable from a -229. Also, I hate saying "never", but I have never heard of or seen any -229 equipped C models. Steve Thanks Steve, that's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Are there any distinguishing exterior characteristics that would immediately tell you that an engine is a 220 vs 229? Thanks again, Chuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falconxlvi Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Thanks Steve, that's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Are there any distinguishing exterior characteristics that would immediately tell you that an engine is a 220 vs 229? Thanks again, Chuck In a Strike Eagle, it's just the CFT scoop. The face and nozzles are virtually indistinguishable. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
airmechaja Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 In the Squadron Walk Around book for the F-15, it shows the -220 engine that is the same as Jake's picture on the left. I'm really confused now! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boom175 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Great pix, thanx...great refs for painting and weathering the fans :thumbsup:/>/> :hmmm:/> looks like you add a little tan to the white and you can weather the intake tunnel...or one might say that's the dirtiest white ever seen; I mean egg shell, or Navajo white isn't that dark. I wonder if it's the friction of the air being pulled in that heats the paint and in a sense singes it to make it dark. Nope just dirt and dead bugs!!! Nellis is a very dusty place and a lot of that dusty air gets sucked down intakes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) I am now wondering if the front of the 220 was changed, which is why it now looks like the 229? Edited June 22, 2016 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EagleAviation Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Thanks John. Either some of the pics on the 'net are wrong, or "The Modern Eagle Guide" is wrong. It doesn't get any clearer than this... The engine on the left is a -200. On the right its either a -220 or a -229. I strongly believe that the -229 is not in operational use on the F-15C. This is the -220 motor photographed at the maintenance component at Lakenheath. The spin with the inlet pressure probe is identical on the -220 and on the -229. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
airmechaja Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 So is it safe to assume that G.W.H. F-15C MSIP is correct with the -220 engine? Dean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Thanks Guys. What seems to make the most sense to me now is that the front of the 220 engine may have been changed to the 229 style, or the engine in Jake's book above left is the 200 for the F-16 instead. No real worries, whatever the outcome. I'll go with the pointy front version no matter what. Thanks, Chuck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ghatherly Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Jake’s book is correct, but there is more to it than what he presents. Let me try to filling the gaps. Your engine is a F100-PW-220E or E+, not a PW-229. The PW 229 will not fit into a A-D eagle. What makes the engine interchange possible on the strike eagle is the Common Engine Bay design that was engineered into that jet when it was redesigned for the SE role after A-D production ceased. The PW100 and the 220 used the rounded center center fan face prior to DEEC. etc came on board in the Late 1980's. The PW 220E and the PW 229 used DEEC and hence the pitot pointed center cone as your photo shows of the actual jet. The original problems with the PW 100 were due to mechanical/Analog engine control system. These were corrected somewhat with the 220 upgrade, but not completely fixed until the PW 220E upgrade to DEEC configuration. The DEEC of the PW 220E and the PW229 is not only operating controls, but also tracked engine operation and have a great deal of maintenance functions. DEEC is the driving force in improved performance, fuel economy, and reduced maintenance intervals. We now even have a PW 220E+. Of note is that with all of the upgraded in the engine, The USAF has not seen a need to upgrade the first half of the E's made with the PW 220E engine, but it has implemented the PW220E+ upgrades. IT is for this reason why we include both fan faces in our engine sets , as depending on the time and of your subject it could be any one of the 3 configurations. Everyone remember to that the Strike Eagle equipped with the PW229 have the MSOG intakes on the side to the jet because of the increased demand for additional flow. The only other way to tell the PW 229 apart fro its earlier family is the afterburner flame holder configuration. Hope this helps! Gary Edited June 22, 2016 by ghatherly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan_Lotton Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Jake’s book is correct, but there is more to it than what he presents. Let me try to filling the gaps. Your engine is a F100-PW-220E or E+, not a PW-229. The PW 229 will not fit into a A-D eagle. What makes the engine interchange possible on the strike eagle is the Common Engine Bay design that was engineered into that jet when it was redesigned for the SE role after A-D production ceased. The PW100 and the 220 used the rounded center center fan face prior to DEEC. etc came on board in the Late 1980's. The PW 220E and the PW 229 used DEEC and hence the pitot pointed center cone as your photo shows of the actual jet. The original problems with the PW 100 were due to mechanical/Analog engine control system. These were corrected somewhat with the 220 upgrade, but not completely fixed until the PW 220E upgrade to DEEC configuration. The DEEC of the PW 220E and the PW229 is not only operating controls, but also tracked engine operation and have a great deal of maintenance functions. DEEC is the driving force in improved performance, fuel economy, and reduced maintenance intervals. We now even have a PW 220E+. Of note is that with all of the upgraded in the engine, The USAF has not seen a need to upgrade the first half of the E's made with the PW 229 engine, but it has implemented the PW220E+ upgrades. IT is for this reason why we include both fan faces in our engine sets , as depending on the time and of your subject it could be any one of the 3 configurations. Everyone remember to that the Strike Eagle equipped with the PW229 have the MSOG intakes on the side to the jet because of the increased demand for additional flow. The only other way to tell the PW 229 apart fro its earlier family is the afterburner flame holder configuration. Hope this helps! Gary I was just about to post that the difference was due to the 220E/E+ kits...then I came to find you explained it in lovely detail lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Jake’s book is correct, but there is more to it than what he presents. Let me try to filling the gaps. Your engine is a F100-PW-220E or E+, not a PW-229. The PW 229 will not fit into a A-D eagle. What makes the engine interchange possible on the strike eagle is the Common Engine Bay design that was engineered into that jet when it was redesigned for the SE role after A-D production ceased. The PW100 and the 220 used the rounded center center fan face prior to DEEC. etc came on board in the Late 1980's. The PW 220E and the PW 229 used DEEC and hence the pitot pointed center cone as your photo shows of the actual jet. The original problems with the PW 100 were due to mechanical/Analog engine control system. These were corrected somewhat with the 220 upgrade, but not completely fixed until the PW 220E upgrade to DEEC configuration. The DEEC of the PW 220E and the PW229 is not only operating controls, but also tracked engine operation and have a great deal of maintenance functions. DEEC is the driving force in improved performance, fuel economy, and reduced maintenance intervals. We now even have a PW 220E+. Of note is that with all of the upgraded in the engine, The USAF has not seen a need to upgrade the first half of the E's made with the PW 229 engine, but it has implemented the PW220E+ upgrades. IT is for this reason why we include both fan faces in our engine sets , as depending on the time and of your subject it could be any one of the 3 configurations. Everyone remember to that the Strike Eagle equipped with the PW229 have the MSOG intakes on the side to the jet because of the increased demand for additional flow. The only other way to tell the PW 229 apart fro its earlier family is the afterburner flame holder configuration. Hope this helps! Gary Thanks Gary. Mystery solved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adamitri Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Nope just dirt and dead bugs!!! Nellis is a very dusty place and a lot of that dusty air gets sucked down intakes. Aint that the truth.... i spent four yrs there from 90 to 94 and the dust was everywhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iaf-man Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Great pix, thanx...great refs for painting and weathering the fans :thumbsup:/>/>/> :hmmm:/>/> looks like you add a little tan to the white and you can weather the intake tunnel...or one might say that's the dirtiest white ever seen; I mean egg shell, or Navajo white isn't that dark. I wonder if it's the friction of the air being pulled in that heats the paint and in a sense singes it to make it dark. You forget one thing-physical intake inspection https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Defense.gov_News_Photo_060124-F-3167B-176.jpg Isaac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol Crew Dog Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Aint that the truth.... i spent four yrs there from 90 to 94 and the dust was everywhere. The dark gray can be attributed to blow back of oil residue usually from #1 Bearing , then bugs, dirt, sand and dust because the residue makes it very sticky so you name it gets stuck to the tube. The Crew Chief jumping the tubes in the picture is wearing a "Bunny Suit", nice and white when you first jump in but if you roll around allot your intake is white and bunny suit is black. we would usually if your were a Crew Chief, wipe down the tubes on a daily basis usually after the last sortie on the BPO/Preflight inspection. They after a while would get a slight beige tinged staining , but this is only if the crew chief doesn't take good care of his jet or it is just plain old. Just like a car, if its clean it just feels like its faster, we would also polish them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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