cvrle Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Ok, I see what you mean. Again, matching things like this has its drawbacks, but I see your point, Laurent. The problem *could* be that the intakes on the CAD are smaller than they should be? Maybe the new bulged ones MoFo mentioned? Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 It might actually be easier to work from a side-view, since front view photos will be very much perspective-driven. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) I think the perspectives are incorrect though. The CAD drawing is slightly lower than the side on photograph of the FAE example. I am not convinced you can rely on these line drawings as the CAD were created from measurements and original plans. I did some myself from other pictures I found and my results were different. I am no expert especially on these line drawings so I have sent them to Sio anyway. I am sure he will make any required changes. Thanks for the help. Edited June 25, 2016 by Martin @ AMK Models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) To me these pictures look like they are in the same linear position (except that the real picture is slightly yawed to port). But could be wrong........ Edited June 25, 2016 by Martin @ AMK Models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG-Mech Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Great news ! If you need, I have several frontal pics of Kfir & F-21 from IAF museum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 ... as the CAD were created from measurements and original plans. Yet the 1/48 kit somewhat missed the fuselage area-ruling. The CAD model is an interpretation of the reference material so some aspects of it may be ignored. Or errors may creep in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Seeing those additional CAD images, I may need more than just six Kfirs. Okay, so here's my version of "red lines on photos" - ;) Note that I didn't try to get the same lengths or anything. Source: LINK! I used the trailing edge as the anchor point and the leading edge as the fulcrum, extending the line past the nose. The line ends just slightly below the radome tip (both CAD and pic Kfirs having the original Kfir noses being the only benefit over Laurent's side view). I take it that means the wings aren't set too low, but the intake lips' lower edge doesn't extend far enough below the wing leading edge (meaning the intakes are too small). It might be an idea to check the ratio of dimensions from spine to intake upper side, the height of the intakes themselves, and from lower intake lip to fuselage bottom. The rear canopy line may also be too vertical/not raked back enough, but I'm not sure. We can live in hope. An AMK-quality 1/72 Mirage III/5 would be great. That whimpering sound you heard was my wallet. :lol: Edited June 26, 2016 by ChernayaAkula Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfighter 124 Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Martin, if AMK is working on this..will the F-14 be delayed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 If AMK don't do it, it's one of the easiest conversions in modeldom. If you can build a model, you can do an F-21. I think I'm going to buy two of them for sure, but if the conversion is as easy as you say; I'm good for at least three kits and maybe four. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) I take it that means the wings aren't set too low, but the intake lips' lower edge doesn't extend far enough below the wing leading edge (meaning the intakes are too small). It might be an idea to check the ratio of dimensions from spine to intake upper side, the height of the intakes themselves, and from lower intake lip to fuselage bottom. You're probably right Moritz, it's probably just an intake issue. My first post suggested this possibility. It would be a good thing as the whole CAD model wouldn't have to be redone. Edited June 26, 2016 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 It is better to view it from the bottom of the nose area to the bottom of the intake, like Laurent has with the orange lines. Seems the intakes are indeed tapering lil bit too much inwards on both top and bottom. We are talking about like 10% of the total intake length from the side though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Please send me an email. Do you need the address? I can send you an e-mail (don't have the address) but if it is about Mirage III/5 I know very little about that. Only thing I know is when a good 1/72 Mirage III/5 hits the market I will buy ten. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Martin, if AMK is working on this..will the F-14 be delayed? I heard a rumour that AMK will release only 1/72 kits from now on; Kfir, MiG-31, F-14A/B/D, MiG-25 etc etc. :whistle: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Nonsense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Seems the intakes are indeed tapering lil bit too much inwards on both top and bottom. We are talking about like 10% of the total intake length from the side though. Bingo. Added the wing root leading edge alignment but the intake height is more bothering IMHO. Nonsense. I think Pollie's into 1/72 Anton... :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Good - one true scale! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 Seeing those additional CAD images, I may need more than just six Kfirs. :woot.gif:/> Okay, so here's my version of "red lines on photos" - ;)/> Note that I didn't try to get the same lengths or anything. Source: LINK! I used the trailing edge as the anchor point and the leading edge as the fulcrum, extending the line past the nose. The line ends just slightly below the radome tip (both CAD and pic Kfirs having the original Kfir noses being the only benefit over Laurent's side view). I take it that means the wings aren't set too low, but the intake lips' lower edge doesn't extend far enough below the wing leading edge (meaning the intakes are too small). It might be an idea to check the ratio of dimensions from spine to intake upper side, the height of the intakes themselves, and from lower intake lip to fuselage bottom. The rear canopy line may also be too vertical/not raked back enough, but I'm not sure. That whimpering sound you heard was my wallet. :lol:/> Thank you. We aim to please. Thanks very much indeed for the hard work. I have passed all this to Sio for him to see. He has told me that he will revisit the intake tomorrow as he thinks that may be the source of the issue. I expect this will be sorted out by tomorrow afternoon. Martin, if AMK is working on this..will the F-14 be delayed? Absolutely not. The Tomcat is a priority. But we don’t just have one guy sitting in an office :P I heard a rumour that AMK will release only 1/72 kits from now on; Kfir, MiG-31, F-14A/B/D, MiG-25 etc etc. :whistle:/> :whistle:/> No, sorry - 1/72 and 1/48 still to come. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 Bingo. Added the wing root leading edge alignment but the intake height is more bothering IMHO. I think Pollie's into 1/72 Anton... :)/> Got it - thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Got it - thank you. You're very welcome :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 OK, all this has been sent to Sio - your input guys is always gratefully received. Thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Just to let you guys know that we will be upgrading the 1/48 Kfir kit as well and making all the tool changes necessary after all this feedback. No time or date for that just yet but, as you know, we like to get it as near to perfect as we can. Pinched waist has already been updated, canopy changes etc. Should make it the definitive Kfir in 1/48 once the 1/72 is done. I will keep you updated. Edited June 28, 2016 by Martin @ AMK Models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Pinched waist has already been updated, canopy changes etc. Should make it the definitive Kfir in 1/48 once the 1/72 is done. Impressive ! There's a possibility that the Fouga Magister canopies cross-section will be fixed then ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Martin @ AMK Models Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Hi Laurent. We will be looking to constantly improve the service and offerings we produce. During the course of new products, inevitably there will be areas where we can make improvements. Just as we did with the MiG-31B/BS after the B/BM. If we can build upon our releases then I am sure there will be the will to do so. These things take time but we are committed to modelers and modeling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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