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More proof that the F-14 was the best fighter. Ever


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I knew the beloved Tom (God rest her aluminum soul) was the ultimate fighter in history but this article just reinforces the legend.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-04-18/news/8803090693_1_uss-saratoga-rf-4c-phantom-pilot

I heard about this incident years ago but never got the details. Interesting story, glad those poor AF guys got out ok. Nice touch that they got complementary USS Saratoga gift bags.

Edited by 11bee
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I was thinking about the demise of the F-14 just yesterday. From what I've read, the Tomcat was mothballed because of cost. Maintenance $$$/hour were quite high, compared to the F-18. The powers to be were waiting for the new wonder, the F-35. However, I am sure that the cost of the F-35 and all of its issues have surpassed maintenance costs of the F-14. But, I don't blame the USN for wanting a 5th generation fighter. Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. I saw the interviews of the F-22 pilot and some of the F-15 pilots. The Raptor shot down all 5 F-15's in short order, at his will. He said it wasn't fair. It was like "clubbing baby seals." The F-15 pilots said that they never saw the F-22 until they were shot down. They said they never had a chance against the F-22. For the record, I'm an F-16 fan.

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Shooting down a reece plane on an exercise makes it the best fighter ?????? Sad outcome for the f-14 pilot ??? was nominated to become an Admiral in 2012 that was shot down by the Senate. Daddy was an Admiral at the time of the incident. RF-4 pilot had to retire on a medical pension.

Ken

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I was thinking about the demise of the F-14 just yesterday. From what I've read, the Tomcat was mothballed because of cost. Maintenance $$$/hour were quite high, compared to the F-18. The powers to be were waiting for the new wonder, the F-35. However, I am sure that the cost of the F-35 and all of its issues have surpassed maintenance costs of the F-14. But, I don't blame the USN for wanting a 5th generation fighter. Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. I saw the interviews of the F-22 pilot and some of the F-15 pilots. The Raptor shot down all 5 F-15's in short order, at his will. He said it wasn't fair. It was like "clubbing baby seals." The F-15 pilots said that they never saw the F-22 until they were shot down. They said they never had a chance against the F-22. For the record, I'm an F-16 fan.

I had some friends in VFA-11 years back when they first got their Super Hornets. They did some DACT against F-22's. I asked if the F-22 was worth it. He said "Every penny!" I asked how he did, and he essentially said the same thing as the F-15 drivers. They were dead in mere seconds, even when starting with a tactical advantage.

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I was thinking about the demise of the F-14 just yesterday. From what I've read, the Tomcat was mothballed because of cost. Maintenance $$$/hour were quite high, compared to the F-18. The powers to be were waiting for the new wonder, the F-35. However, I am sure that the cost of the F-35 and all of its issues have surpassed maintenance costs of the F-14. But, I don't blame the USN for wanting a 5th generation fighter. Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. I saw the interviews of the F-22 pilot and some of the F-15 pilots. The Raptor shot down all 5 F-15's in short order, at his will. He said it wasn't fair. It was like "clubbing baby seals." The F-15 pilots said that they never saw the F-22 until they were shot down. They said they never had a chance against the F-22. For the record, I'm an F-16 fan.

The F-35 maintenance/operation cost per year is actually a little less than the costs for a Super Hornet fleet, according to an auditor's report prepared for the Canadian government during our long drawn-out search for a Legacy Hornet replacement.

I can't remember for sure, but one factor might have been fleet numbers (higher for the Hornets than the F-35), but single-engine reduced both engine maintenance cost, spares cost, and fuel consumption (which is a big cost element over the years).

ALF

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I was thinking about the demise of the F-14 just yesterday. From what I've read, the Tomcat was mothballed because of cost. Maintenance $$$/hour were quite high, compared to the F-18. The powers to be were waiting for the new wonder, the F-35. However, I am sure that the cost of the F-35 and all of its issues have surpassed maintenance costs of the F-14. But, I don't blame the USN for wanting a 5th generation fighter. Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. I saw the interviews of the F-22 pilot and some of the F-15 pilots. The Raptor shot down all 5 F-15's in short order, at his will. He said it wasn't fair. It was like "clubbing baby seals." The F-15 pilots said that they never saw the F-22 until they were shot down. They said they never had a chance against the F-22. For the record, I'm an F-16 fan.

F-14s were replaced by super hornets, legacy hornets are being replaced by F-35s

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I had some friends in VFA-11 years back when they first got their Super Hornets. They did some DACT against F-22's. I asked if the F-22 was worth it. He said "Every penny!" I asked how he did, and he essentially said the same thing as the F-15 drivers. They were dead in mere seconds, even when starting with a tactical advantage.

Via an Adversary pilot:

"What makes the F-22 so hard to fight?"

"Have you ever seen an airplane make a square turn? Well, the F-22 does that. They will do it right in front of you just as you're coming through this GIAAAANNNNTTTT arcing turn in your F-18, or F-5. They point their nose at you right as you roll wings level. Even if you've managed your energy perfectly, and even if you're in a position to do anything, they will have aligned themselves perfectly for the shot, and you're dead. That's if you're lucky enough to fight just one. There's usually 2 of them. That's also AFTER they lock all 4 of you up simultaneously from BVR and put 8 missiles down the pipe."

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Via an Adversary pilot:

"What makes the F-22 so hard to fight?"

"Have you ever seen an airplane make a square turn? Well, the F-22 does that. They will do it right in front of you just as you're coming through this GIAAAANNNNTTTT arcing turn in your F-18, or F-5. They point their nose at you right as you roll wings level. Even if you've managed your energy perfectly, and even if you're in a position to do anything, they will have aligned themselves perfectly for the shot, and you're dead. That's if you're lucky enough to fight just one. There's usually 2 of them. That's also AFTER they lock all 4 of you up simultaneously from BVR and put 8 missiles down the pipe."

Would it be safe to assume that any current jet with thrust vectoring would yield similar results or is the F-22 especially good in this area? It's a topic that doesn't get that much press since most are focused on it's BVR abilities.

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Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario.

If recently means 11 years ago, then yes. This took place in 2005, and was flown as an alternate mission after one of the F-22s had to RTB early due to a system malfunction. The remaining F-22 flew 1v5 in an unscripted, pure sweep scenario. I see this brought up every few months, but it is, comparatively speaking, ancient news.

Not sure what the AEGIS system has to do with any of this...

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Would it be safe to assume that any current jet with thrust vectoring would yield similar results or is the F-22 especially good in this area?

It would not. While TV provides a boost, the F-22 has massive control and lifting surfaces. It has a lifting body design, large wings, and even it's vertical tails (which which are larger then the wings on an F-16) provide additional lift. Structurally, the F-22 is almost tailless, most of the stabilators are aft of the engine exhaust, and they're huge.

maxresdefault.jpg

F_22_Raptor_Tail_Feathers_photo_D_Ramey_Logan.jpg

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two questions about the photos in the above post:

1. Looking at the head on shot, the intakes almost look closed off! Am I right?

2. Looking at photo 2, the main landing gear looks massive. Has the Navy ever tried to land one on a carrier deck?

lastly; this would have tobe a prime candidate for AMK!!!

gary

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1. Looking at the head on shot, the intakes almost look closed off! Am I right?

That's just how they look. The intakes wrap around the weapons bays and prevent the engine face from being seen by any radar. You would have to physically crawl well up into the intake to see the engine.

2. Looking at photo 2, the main landing gear looks massive. Has the Navy ever tried to land one on a carrier deck?

Nope.

Edited by Tony Stark
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That's just how they look. The intakes wrap around the weapons bays and prevent the engine face from being seen by any radar. You would have to physically crawl well up into the intake to see the engine.

Nope.

RE - the F-22 intakes. I've never seen any pics of the interior of them. Do they have an radar absorbing baffles or do they just depend on their serpentine design and (I assume) interior coatings to minimize radar returns?

With regard to the comment about the F-22's landing gear, that's funny. I always thought the LG on the F-22 (and F-15 for that matter) seemed pretty skimpy. Nothing like the heavy duty gear on naval aircraft. Could just be an optical illusion since the F-22 is such a large aircraft.

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