11bee Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) I knew the beloved Tom (God rest her aluminum soul) was the ultimate fighter in history but this article just reinforces the legend. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-04-18/news/8803090693_1_uss-saratoga-rf-4c-phantom-pilot I heard about this incident years ago but never got the details. Interesting story, glad those poor AF guys got out ok. Nice touch that they got complementary USS Saratoga gift bags. Edited July 5, 2016 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Teeradej Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Never known the incident before. An outcome for the Tomcat pilot is sad and inevitable. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balls47 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I was thinking about the demise of the F-14 just yesterday. From what I've read, the Tomcat was mothballed because of cost. Maintenance $$$/hour were quite high, compared to the F-18. The powers to be were waiting for the new wonder, the F-35. However, I am sure that the cost of the F-35 and all of its issues have surpassed maintenance costs of the F-14. But, I don't blame the USN for wanting a 5th generation fighter. Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. I saw the interviews of the F-22 pilot and some of the F-15 pilots. The Raptor shot down all 5 F-15's in short order, at his will. He said it wasn't fair. It was like "clubbing baby seals." The F-15 pilots said that they never saw the F-22 until they were shot down. They said they never had a chance against the F-22. For the record, I'm an F-16 fan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KenM Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Shooting down a reece plane on an exercise makes it the best fighter ?????? Sad outcome for the f-14 pilot ??? was nominated to become an Admiral in 2012 that was shot down by the Senate. Daddy was an Admiral at the time of the incident. RF-4 pilot had to retire on a medical pension. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I was thinking about the demise of the F-14 just yesterday. From what I've read, the Tomcat was mothballed because of cost. Maintenance $$$/hour were quite high, compared to the F-18. The powers to be were waiting for the new wonder, the F-35. However, I am sure that the cost of the F-35 and all of its issues have surpassed maintenance costs of the F-14. But, I don't blame the USN for wanting a 5th generation fighter. Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. I saw the interviews of the F-22 pilot and some of the F-15 pilots. The Raptor shot down all 5 F-15's in short order, at his will. He said it wasn't fair. It was like "clubbing baby seals." The F-15 pilots said that they never saw the F-22 until they were shot down. They said they never had a chance against the F-22. For the record, I'm an F-16 fan. I had some friends in VFA-11 years back when they first got their Super Hornets. They did some DACT against F-22's. I asked if the F-22 was worth it. He said "Every penny!" I asked how he did, and he essentially said the same thing as the F-15 drivers. They were dead in mere seconds, even when starting with a tactical advantage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 Shooting down a reece plane on an exercise makes it the best fighter ?????? Ken Posted with tongue firmly in cheek. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KenM Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Posted with tongue firmly in cheek. Gotcha Texas size 10-4 Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Wonder if they painted a kill marking...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I was thinking about the demise of the F-14 just yesterday. From what I've read, the Tomcat was mothballed because of cost. Maintenance $$$/hour were quite high, compared to the F-18. The powers to be were waiting for the new wonder, the F-35. However, I am sure that the cost of the F-35 and all of its issues have surpassed maintenance costs of the F-14. But, I don't blame the USN for wanting a 5th generation fighter. Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. I saw the interviews of the F-22 pilot and some of the F-15 pilots. The Raptor shot down all 5 F-15's in short order, at his will. He said it wasn't fair. It was like "clubbing baby seals." The F-15 pilots said that they never saw the F-22 until they were shot down. They said they never had a chance against the F-22. For the record, I'm an F-16 fan. The F-35 maintenance/operation cost per year is actually a little less than the costs for a Super Hornet fleet, according to an auditor's report prepared for the Canadian government during our long drawn-out search for a Legacy Hornet replacement. I can't remember for sure, but one factor might have been fleet numbers (higher for the Hornets than the F-35), but single-engine reduced both engine maintenance cost, spares cost, and fuel consumption (which is a big cost element over the years). ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I was thinking about the demise of the F-14 just yesterday. From what I've read, the Tomcat was mothballed because of cost. Maintenance $$$/hour were quite high, compared to the F-18. The powers to be were waiting for the new wonder, the F-35. However, I am sure that the cost of the F-35 and all of its issues have surpassed maintenance costs of the F-14. But, I don't blame the USN for wanting a 5th generation fighter. Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. I saw the interviews of the F-22 pilot and some of the F-15 pilots. The Raptor shot down all 5 F-15's in short order, at his will. He said it wasn't fair. It was like "clubbing baby seals." The F-15 pilots said that they never saw the F-22 until they were shot down. They said they never had a chance against the F-22. For the record, I'm an F-16 fan. F-14s were replaced by super hornets, legacy hornets are being replaced by F-35s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Stark Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I had some friends in VFA-11 years back when they first got their Super Hornets. They did some DACT against F-22's. I asked if the F-22 was worth it. He said "Every penny!" I asked how he did, and he essentially said the same thing as the F-15 drivers. They were dead in mere seconds, even when starting with a tactical advantage. Via an Adversary pilot: "What makes the F-22 so hard to fight?" "Have you ever seen an airplane make a square turn? Well, the F-22 does that. They will do it right in front of you just as you're coming through this GIAAAANNNNTTTT arcing turn in your F-18, or F-5. They point their nose at you right as you roll wings level. Even if you've managed your energy perfectly, and even if you're in a position to do anything, they will have aligned themselves perfectly for the shot, and you're dead. That's if you're lucky enough to fight just one. There's usually 2 of them. That's also AFTER they lock all 4 of you up simultaneously from BVR and put 8 missiles down the pipe." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 Via an Adversary pilot: "What makes the F-22 so hard to fight?" "Have you ever seen an airplane make a square turn? Well, the F-22 does that. They will do it right in front of you just as you're coming through this GIAAAANNNNTTTT arcing turn in your F-18, or F-5. They point their nose at you right as you roll wings level. Even if you've managed your energy perfectly, and even if you're in a position to do anything, they will have aligned themselves perfectly for the shot, and you're dead. That's if you're lucky enough to fight just one. There's usually 2 of them. That's also AFTER they lock all 4 of you up simultaneously from BVR and put 8 missiles down the pipe." Would it be safe to assume that any current jet with thrust vectoring would yield similar results or is the F-22 especially good in this area? It's a topic that doesn't get that much press since most are focused on it's BVR abilities. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cag_200 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 So the F-22 includes the AI and Aegis system along other fuzzy ones? Mr. Tamiya, Make one 1/32 ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Recently, the USAF sent up an F-22 against 5 F-15C's(flown by F-22 pilots) in a real time scenario. If recently means 11 years ago, then yes. This took place in 2005, and was flown as an alternate mission after one of the F-22s had to RTB early due to a system malfunction. The remaining F-22 flew 1v5 in an unscripted, pure sweep scenario. I see this brought up every few months, but it is, comparatively speaking, ancient news. Not sure what the AEGIS system has to do with any of this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cag_200 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I meant AESA oops Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Stark Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Would it be safe to assume that any current jet with thrust vectoring would yield similar results or is the F-22 especially good in this area? It would not. While TV provides a boost, the F-22 has massive control and lifting surfaces. It has a lifting body design, large wings, and even it's vertical tails (which which are larger then the wings on an F-16) provide additional lift. Structurally, the F-22 is almost tailless, most of the stabilators are aft of the engine exhaust, and they're huge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 two questions about the photos in the above post: 1. Looking at the head on shot, the intakes almost look closed off! Am I right? 2. Looking at photo 2, the main landing gear looks massive. Has the Navy ever tried to land one on a carrier deck? lastly; this would have tobe a prime candidate for AMK!!! gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Stark Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) 1. Looking at the head on shot, the intakes almost look closed off! Am I right? That's just how they look. The intakes wrap around the weapons bays and prevent the engine face from being seen by any radar. You would have to physically crawl well up into the intake to see the engine. 2. Looking at photo 2, the main landing gear looks massive. Has the Navy ever tried to land one on a carrier deck? Nope. Edited July 6, 2016 by Tony Stark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 That's just how they look. The intakes wrap around the weapons bays and prevent the engine face from being seen by any radar. You would have to physically crawl well up into the intake to see the engine. Nope. RE - the F-22 intakes. I've never seen any pics of the interior of them. Do they have an radar absorbing baffles or do they just depend on their serpentine design and (I assume) interior coatings to minimize radar returns? With regard to the comment about the F-22's landing gear, that's funny. I always thought the LG on the F-22 (and F-15 for that matter) seemed pretty skimpy. Nothing like the heavy duty gear on naval aircraft. Could just be an optical illusion since the F-22 is such a large aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 The F-14 was a bucket of bolts. Does it even have any air-to-air kills? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 The F-14 was a bucket of bolts. Does it even have any air-to-air kills? 4 at least. Harrier has 20 you know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 4 at least. Harrier has 20 you know... For the record I liked the F-14. I feel all the fighters through the generations contributed in one way or another, none were the best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gb_madcat_sl Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 The F-14 was a bucket of bolts. Does it even have any air-to-air kills? Kindly Google "Gulf of Sidra Incident 1981 and 1989". Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Didn't the Iranians scored in the region of 50 kills over the Iraqis whilst flying the F-14? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dennis the peasant Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 The F-14 was a bucket of bolts. Does it even have any air-to-air kills? There were all those MiG-28 kills. Cheers, Dennis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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