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Floyd,

 

Based on your post, does that mean the other options (German, JASDF and Taiwan) in the box cannot be built OOB and still be correct? At some point there would need to be breakdown of what is needed for each version as it appears the parts are only marked optional and not which scheme it is used for. 

 

Didn't know now about the other parts mentioned. Course I am not an expert on them. With the Roo and other weapons is another boxing w/matching decals planned? 

 

Overall it looks good. I like how the overhead glass is handled. Don't know about the fit but I would recommend the doors be handled in the same fashion. Maybe just cut out for the bubble window instead of additional doors. Ideas for a short body kit. 

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11 hours ago, rotorwash said:

How is it wrong?  It looks just like the real deal to me. I think what you are speaking of is a panel line and not a "hinge line"

 

UH-1D 64-13895 fuselage (10).jpg

That's not the "hinge" I was talking about.   I wish I knew how to add arrows over pictures like you did, it would make it much easier to illustrate.   The issue I was referring to was the heavy horizontal thing that is molded directly forward of the exhaust.  It's between the two sets of vertical cooling louvers.  It's barely visible on the real thing. 

 

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2 hours ago, midnightprowler said:

Are these on a Vietnam era Huey?

Nope, those fins, the cage around the wiper mounts and the wire cutters were only added in the early 80's. 

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2 hours ago, Tank said:

Floyd,

 

Based on your post, does that mean the other options (German, JASDF and Taiwan) in the box cannot be built OOB and still be correct? At some point there would need to be breakdown of what is needed for each version as it appears the parts are only marked optional and not which scheme it is used for. 

 

Didn't know now about the other parts mentioned. Course I am not an expert on them. With the Roo and other weapons is another boxing w/matching decals planned? 

 

Overall it looks good. I like how the overhead glass is handled. Don't know about the fit but I would recommend the doors be handled in the same fashion. Maybe just cut out for the bubble window instead of additional doors. Ideas for a short body kit. 

To me, looking at the sprues,  You can do the Foreign options OOB, except the lower wire strike in missing.   

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46 minutes ago, 11bee said:

That's not the "hinge" I was talking about.   I wish I knew how to add arrows over pictures like you did, it would make it much easier to illustrate.   The issue I was referring to was the heavy horizontal thing that is molded directly forward of the exhaust.  It's between the two sets of vertical cooling louvers.  It's barely visible on the real thing. 

 

Image may contain: outdoor

Ray, it is the line that is on the doghouse.  Look at the tailpipe and go on the doghouse.  It is right there.  Again, it is a lot less pronounced on the once in hand.  

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12 hours ago, rotorwash said:

Regarding the whole rivet issue, let's not forget what the rivets on the 1/48 Italeri D/H scaled up to in 1/35.  Below is the Panda/Dragon tailboom compared to the ACCURATE rivets in 1/35 scale on the MRC UH-1C kit.  If you made raised rivets ACCURATE in 1/48 scale, you would need a magnifying glass to see them!

  Ray

 

Thanks for the comparison,  I agree that in 48th, it's not as big of an issue. That being said, I do think raised rivets are still noticeable in this scale.  Plenty of other kits made in the last decade have been able to replicate this and (IMO) it does makes a difference.    Heck, KH managed to put some decent looking raised rivets on the footwell covers on the b-pillar.   My concern is that KH will take the lazy way out on the 35th scale kit and just scale up these molds.  In that case it will be very noticeable since those rivets are a signature of the Huey.  Your pictures above show what happens when you take a smaller kit and just scale it up to 35th.   I personally wouldn't want to have to fill in a thousand or so unsightly divets, sand, apply a few thousand decal rivets.   Hoping KH fixes this.  

 

As far as those raised panels, you and Huey CC have the plastic in hand.  If you guys say it looks better in reality, I'll take your word for it.  That's a bit of a relief to hear that!

 

A few other comments from looking over the instructions and kit parts posted on the link above -

 

Looks like the late style windowless jump door wasn't included.  Not a huge issue for this release since they only showed up on some very late war Hueys.  Be a nice add on from the aftermarket folks. 

 

The side armor on the pilots seat doesn't extend past the back of the seat, as it should in the retracted position.  A quick fix but worth being aware of.  

 

The IP doesn't have any detail on the gauges so you will have to either have to painstaking paint the gauge detail by hand or use the kit decal (which is for an overall black IP - not accurate for a Vietnam era helo which should have the earlier grey IP).  I was never able to get decals to fit over an IP with all that raised detail, hopefully we do see some aftermarket stuff get released.   This IP would look great as a multiple piece PE and clear film setup!   

 

Looks like the ammo chutes for the MG's aren't included.   That's a bummer.  Not sure how to replicate those from scratch.  Pretty sure they were always present on the M23 system. 

The bipods on the M60's look a bit silly in PE (not many folks would even notice or care about this but since early in life, I "humped the pig", the 60 is near and dear to me).   The easiest fix is to toss those parts as did many Huey gunners in Nam.   As already noted, the brass catchers need to be replaced and the ammo boxes need some work. 

specs46.jpg

 

Door handles are molded on.  Should really be separate parts in this scale but that's an easy fix. 

 

Not 100% sure but it looks like some of the troop seat supports are missing.  Not a big deal, easy fix with some plastic rod. 


PE seatbelts are a bit basic.  OK in 48th (and certainly better than not having any belts included) but I'd love to see Eduard put out one of their pre-printed sets and really do these things justice. Also looks like they didn't include pilot's lap belts for some reason.  

 

You guys caught those tiny sliding door stops that go in at the end of the door tracks!   Incredible!   I never thought I'd see those included.  Also, the more I look at the instructions, the more I see all the other cool bits that would have been overlooked without all the info you provided.   

 

EDIT - I might be mistaken on the brass catcher and MG ammo boxes.  Just found this cool site that had detail shots of the entire rig.   Anyone add anything to this?

 

http://incolor.inetnebr.com/iceman/uh1.htm

Edited by 11bee
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T

2 hours ago, Tank said:

Based on your post, does that mean the other options (German, JASDF and Taiwan) in the box cannot be built OOB and still be correct? At some point there would need to be breakdown of what is needed for each version as it appears the parts are only marked optional and not which scheme it is used for. 

 

Didn't know now about the other parts mentioned. Course I am not an expert on them. With the Roo and other weapons is another boxing w/matching decals planned?

You can build the other options, but it appears that the lower WSPS is MIA.  Things we would have caught on a pre-production sample.  We are working on it.  I was only commenting about a Vietnam era Huey because that is what Ray and I were concentrating on. I can't speak about another boxing.  It looks like you get everything here with some exceptions but we are working on that.

Floyd

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

That's not the "hinge" I was talking about.   I wish I knew how to add arrows over pictures like you did, it would make it much easier to illustrate.   The issue I was referring to was the heavy horizontal thing that is molded directly forward of the exhaust.  It's between the two sets of vertical cooling louvers.  It's barely visible on the real thing. 

 

Image may contain: outdoor

Ok, now I got you.  The irony here is that for some reason KH DID put raised rivets on that panel line.  As you can see here, it exists on the real aircraft, just not as prominent.  Imagine, if you will, that the whole kit has the raised rivets!  

   Ray

 

UH-1D 64-13895 fuselage (10)-1.jpg

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3 minutes ago, rotorwash said:

 Imagine, if you will, that the whole kit has the raised rivets!  

   Ray

 

 

We can only dream.. LOL.  

 

Actually, from looking at the kit parts, those rivets were pretty nice.  It was the fact that they went overboard with the flat piece of sheet metal that throws things out of proportion.

 

 

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Just now, 11bee said:

We can only dream.. LOL.  

 

Actually, from looking at the kit parts, those rivets were pretty nice.  It was the fact that they went overboard with the flat piece of sheet metal that throws things out of proportion.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  Those rivets would scale up larger than the Dragon kit in 1/35.  Plus, and this a big plus, i won't sand all the rivets away every time I run a sanding stick over a seam.  If it is scale up to 1/35, the will need to do very small raised rivets though.  I do agree on that.

   Ray  

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55 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Thanks for the comparison,  I agree that in 48th, it's not as big of an issue. That being said, I do think raised rivets are still noticeable in this scale.  Plenty of other kits made in the last decade have been able to replicate this and (IMO) it does makes a difference.    Heck, KH managed to put some decent looking raised rivets on the footwell covers on the b-pillar.   My concern is that KH will take the lazy way out on the 35th scale kit and just scale up these molds.  In that case it will be very noticeable since those rivets are a signature of the Huey.  Your pictures above show what happens when you take a smaller kit and just scale it up to 35th.   I personally wouldn't want to have to fill in a thousand or so unsightly divets, sand, apply a few thousand decal rivets.   Hoping KH fixes this.  

 

As far as those raised panels, you and Huey CC have the plastic in hand.  If you guys say it looks better in reality, I'll take your word for it.  That's a bit of a relief to hear that!

 

A few other comments from looking over the instructions and kit parts posted on the link above -

 

Looks like the late style windowless jump door wasn't included.  Not a huge issue for this release since they only showed up on some very late war Hueys.  Be a nice add on from the aftermarket folks. 

I would think that you could simply paint over the window and viola, a solid door!

 

The side armor on the pilots seat doesn't extend past the back of the seat, as it should in the retracted position.  A quick fix but worth being aware of.  

Yeah, I intend to fix this when I build mine.  I believe it will be a simple matter of cutting the rear tab from the armor and sliding it back.

 

The IP doesn't have any detail on the gauges so you will have to either have to painstaking paint the gauge detail by hand or use the kit decal (which is for an overall black IP - not accurate for a Vietnam era helo which should have the earlier grey IP).  I was never able to get decals to fit over an IP with all that raised detail, hopefully we do see some aftermarket stuff get released.   This IP would look great as a multiple piece PE and clear film setup!   

I wish they would have included gray and black decals.  However, my intention at the moment is to use a punch and die set to extract each of the instrument faces and add them to the IP.  Will it work?  We shall see.

 

Looks like the ammo chutes for the MG's aren't included.   That's a bummer.  Not sure how to replicate those from scratch.  Pretty sure they were always present on the M23 system. 

The ammo chutes were only used on the system if the little dinky factory ammo box was used and in Vietnam many, if not most, were fitted with much larger ammo boxes.  Personally, Floyd and I would like to see both the chutes and linked ammo belts included and have made note of that in our suggestions as well as our desire for at least 2 20mm ammo cans.

 

The bipods on the M60's look a bit silly in PE (not many folks would even notice or care about this but since early in life, I "humped the pig", the 60 is near and dear to me).   The easiest fix is to toss those parts as did many Huey gunners in Nam.   As already noted, the brass catchers need to be replaced and the ammo boxes need some work. 

Agreed, but since these are the only 1/48 M23 systems in plastic anywhere AND you get TWO per kit, unlike the Dragon kit, I'm still calling this a win.  I agree that leaving the bipod off is the best option.  The only real reason you might have the bipod is if you replaced the barrel with one meant for an M60A.  Frankly, leaving the brass bag off of the right gun should also be considered standard for Vietnam.  Only the left gun usually had the brass bag to prevent FOD in the tail rotor.

specs46.jpg

 

Door handles are molded on.  Should really be separate parts in this scale but that's an easy fix. 

 I have an idea for this.  When I get the kit in hand we will see if it works.

 

Not 100% sure but it looks like some of the troop seat supports are missing.  Not a big deal, easy fix with some plastic rod. 

 I believe they are all there but we will see, and as you say, that's an easy fix.


PE seatbelts are a bit basic.  OK in 48th (and certainly better than not having any belts included) but I'd love to see Eduard put out one of their pre-printed sets and really do these things justice. Also looks like they didn't include pilot's lap belts for some reason.  

I intend to cut the shoulder harnesses down to size and I think they will look pretty good.  It looks like the lap belts for the pilots are on the PE fret even though they aren't on the build I posted photos of.  I think a Zoom color set for the seat belts and instrument panel are a fertile market for Eduard.  Personally, though I hope they do something economical with just a few bits to go along with their usual super sets that cost half what the kit does! 

 

You guys caught those tiny sliding door stops that go in at the end of the door tracks!   Incredible!   I never thought I'd see those included.  Also, the more I look at the instructions, the more I see all the other cool bits that would have been overlooked without all the info you provided.   

Check out the windshield wiper stops.  Yep, we got those too!

 

 

 

Edited by rotorwash
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I am not a huge Huey junkie like many on here, but I think it looks very nice and I will buy one when the opportunity presents itself.  LOOKS LIKE A HUEY TO ME!  Also when it is sitting on a shelf in my office no one will notice the one antenna 2mm off or what not.  I don't know about you guys, but most of my family and friends are not aviation experts and wouldn't even know the name of the helicopter.....  Awesome kit by the looks of it and if it builds well, to be honest that is the importance to me.

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1 minute ago, rotorwash said:

Looks like the late style windowless jump door wasn't included.  Not a huge issue for this release since they only showed up on some very late war Hueys.  Be a nice add on from the aftermarket folks. 

I would think that you could simply paint over the window and viola, a solid door!

Actually, it's a bit more.  First off, you need to fill and sand down the extrior surfaces.   Not that big of a deal but worth mentioning.  The more involved part is that the interior of the windowless jump door is quite a bit different and would require replicating the revised structural framing.  

 

I hope you don't take my comments as being over the top (as another member appears to have done).  I'm a huge Huey fan and my mode of building a model is to try to replicate every detail to the fullest.  That's why I get fixated on all these small items (kinda like an OCD version of "Ooh, something shiny!!").  I may not be the best modeler out there (as my builds that I have posted will show) but I do make a point of trying to capture every single small detail. That's what makes building these models enjoyable to me.   The only reason I've posted all this stuff is to make anyone else who has the same outlook as me to add those issues to their "punch list".   Other folks have a different build approach and that's completely fine as well.   I've also tried to make a point of flagging all the really cool things that this kit brings to us as well.  Still can't get over those door stops....     

 

Also, it's definitely in the anal retentive category, but the windows in the sliding troop doors have small yellow quick release handles visible at the bottom.   Nearly invisible in 48th but they are still there!  

 

Lastly, I couldn't tell from the one shot I saw of the decals but do you know if they included the yellow and black pilot's door "Emergency Exit" markings that are present on the interior?  If not, I nice thing to add with any aftermarket decals. 
 

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9 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Actually, it's a bit more.  First off, you need to fill and sand down the extrior surfaces.   Not that big of a deal but worth mentioning.  The more involved part is that the interior of the windowless jump door is quite a bit different and would require replicating the revised structural framing.  

 

 

John,

  I am a full fledged rivet counter with the Huey so I am totally OK with pointing out issues.  However, if the two small horizontal lines are what you consider "more involved" "revised structural framing", you have me beat my friend!

  Ray

 

  Doors%20compare_zpswbl9ut9a.jpg

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15 minutes ago, rotorwash said:

John,

  I am a full fledged rivet counter with the Huey so I am totally OK with pointing out issues.  However, if the two small horizontal lines are what you consider "more involved" "revised structural framing", you have me beat my friend!

  Ray

 

  

I do.  Lets agree to disagree again.  If it was my build, I'd certainly do more than just install the glass and paint the window over.  I do stand corrected though, I really thought there were more differences on the interior of the door.  

 

Viva la difference!  

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8 minutes ago, 11bee said:

I do.  Lets agree to disagree again.  If it was my build, I'd certainly do more than just install the glass and paint the window over.  I do stand corrected though, I really thought there were more differences on the interior of the door.  

 

Viva la difference!  

Viva la difference, indeed!  With that level of scrutiny, how in H E double hockey sticks did ever manage to build the Dragon kit to a point you could even stand to look at it, John!  I mean your build is gorgeous and you added a ton to it, but that kit has a ton of issues including the wrong basic profile.  Trust me, when I get this kit in my hands (Monday hopefully) I will give as thorough a review as possible.  I think building it next to the ESCI and Italeri kits will also be very helpful.

   Ray

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10 minutes ago, rotorwash said:

Viva la difference, indeed!  With that level of scrutiny, how in H E double hockey sticks did ever manage to build the Dragon kit to a point you could even stand to look at it, John!  I mean your build is gorgeous and you added a ton to it, but that kit has a ton of issues including the wrong basic profile.  Trust me, when I get this kit in my hands (Monday hopefully) I will give as thorough a review as possible.  I think building it next to the ESCI and Italeri kits will also be very helpful.

   Ray

The modified jump door would consist of the following fun steps:

 

Install kit window

Fill and sand seam, removing all traces of window frame

replace any lost detailing on exterior

Prime and inspect.  If issues, go back to steps 2-3-4

Cut 4 thin plastic strips.  sand the ends to replicate the taper shown in your shot (thanks for posting by the way, that's a great reference)

glue strips in place

try to replicate the fine riveting adjacent to these strips.

fabricate door handle from thin plastic rod and scrap bits

prime and inspect, repeat as necessary

Finish paint interior surfaces, pick out door handle in weathered yellow.  

 

All in all, this equates to a couple of hours of pure modeling bliss.

 

As far as the Dragon kit I built, at the time I had no idea about the windshield being so off.  Probably never would have started it had I known.  What's that they say about ignorance being bliss? Plus, that kit was first helo I ever built so it was very much a learning experience for me.  

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, 11bee said:

The modified jump door would consist of the following fun steps:

 

Install kit window

Fill and sand seam, removing all traces of window frame

replace any lost detailing on exterior

Prime and inspect.  If issues, go back to steps 2-3-4

Cut 4 thin plastic strips.  sand the ends to replicate the taper shown in your shot (thanks for posting by the way, that's a great reference)

glue strips in place

try to replicate the fine riveting adjacent to these strips.

fabricate door handle from thin plastic rod and scrap bits

prime and inspect, repeat as necessary

Finish paint interior surfaces, pick out door handle in weathered yellow.  

 

All in all, this equates to a couple of hours of pure modeling bliss.

 

As far as the Dragon kit I built, at the time I had no idea about the windshield being so off.  Probably never would have started it had I known.  What's that they say about ignorance being bliss? Plus, that kit was first helo I ever built so it was very much a learning experience for me.  

 

 

 

And, it looks like some Vietnam solid jump doors has THREE ridges, John!  Mind officially BLOWN!  So if we did a solid jump door should we do two strips or three?  Photo is from John Mathiesen 190th AHC 69-70.

   Ray

 

Mathiesen prints -04.jpg

Edited by rotorwash
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1 hour ago, rotorwash said:

And, it looks like some Vietnam solid jump doors has THREE ridges, John!  Mind officially BLOWN!  So if we did a solid jump door should we do two strips or three?  Photo is from John Mathiesen 190th AHC 69-70.

   Ray

 

Mathiesen prints -04.jpg

 

New Product 2 and 3 for Werner Wings?

Edited by Tank
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Wow that is a full box of sprues, so excited to see this. I have all of the other manufacturer's of the Huey out there I think, Monogram (yeah I know it is a B), ESCI and Italeri. Even have a Heller one but that is a rebox of the Italeri kit of the UH-1N.

 

It is really nice to have markings for the other operators on the deal sheet. That is great and my thanks go out to Floyd and Ray for helping make this the Huey kit we can all be proud of having on our shelves. It is also great that Kitty Hawk reached out for help from very knowledgeable people on the subject.

 

So I have to donate my old kits to our model club to make some room on my shelves for at least a couple of copies of this great looking kit.

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I'm thinking white metal would be the perfect material to cast ammo chutes out of - they're flexible ( guns could be placed in any attitude), already silver coloured etc. - Aftermarket guys?

 

These are the M23 system on RAAF Hueys in Vietnam, I don't know which ammo boxes these are.  I'll be ditching those brass bags on mine.

 

9sqn_072_zpsbcnnjoqz.jpg

 

4232785_zpsrhjxyk31.jpg

 

9sqn_117_zpsee45cmqh.jpg

 

Unfortunately the extra armaments, Rocket pods etc in the kit are no use for an Aussie Gunship - they look more like parts leftover from their UH-1Y project.? But the bottom mounts may provide a good starting point for a scratchbuild so their is still some promise there.  We knew early on that the Bushranger armament what not going to be part of the kit so no foul on KH for that one. 

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