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Hobbyboss SU-27B review


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On 17/10/2016 at 7:43 PM, foxmulder_ms said:

Forgive me for asking but do you have 1/48 J-11B or Su-27 from HB?

For the lerxes, are you mixing HB ones with academy or smt? Because, again, academy is really small but HB looks quite ok. 

 

Fox, you're just wasting your time. Safest bet is that he's talking just because air is free, or did you even see him base his sorry spiel on facts...?

You'd better spend your time checking on clever modellers who care to post their info based on hard facts, so as keen has done above.

@keen: Hat off to you, buddy! Thanks. :worship:

 

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On 18.10.2016 at 0:34 AM, The Scaremonger said:

 

Well, that's just in your humble opinion, which doesn't mean it's true, because the width of the LERX on the 1/48 Hobby Boss J-11/Flanker B kit is not wrong in width whatsoever; while it does lack the gentle S-shaped curve that Mr Duffey kindly pointed out.

 

1; If you dont think LERX in Pep's picture (excellent build so far btw!) looks skinny compared to this;

 

199192.jpg

 

Well then, there is nothing i can help you with.

 

2; I also suspect the the LERX ends too early. Here is where the end point is;

 

DlHs5fz.jpg

 

Zq6xswQ.jpg

 

Maybe keen could confirm or refute this.

On 18.10.2016 at 0:43 AM, foxmulder_ms said:

Forgive me for asking but do you have 1/48 J-11B or Su-27 from HB? Because the overall size/hump of the winshield+canopy looks very good compared to images or drawings. Now, the windshield/canopy "border" might be slightly wrong, i.e. windshield should have been 1mm or so longer..?? The above image is pretty nice comparison actually.

 

For the lerxes, are you mixing HB ones with academy or smt? Because, again, academy is really small but HB looks quite ok.

 

Nope, i don't have the kit myself. Generally i prefer 72 scale so i am sticking to it especially since there is basically a perfect (shapewise) Zvezda kit out. Keen's comparison between the Zvezda and Trumpeter is a good one, but really where the canopy looked very wrong was not necessarily in profile. It was just very large by surface area and was very bulbous when seen from 3/4 angle, like in Ken's picture here;

 

j-15_056.jpg

 

And while it looks like an improvement over the 72 kit, HB canopy and windshield still appear bulbous to me in booth Pep and keen's pictures. And yeah i agree, the windshield is clearly too short, and quite significant, would say about 3mm. In absolute terms that is nothing of course, but it is things like that that throw the "balance" off and something just looks wrong as the result.

 

I have said it million times already at this point; HB kit is lightyears ahead of Academy kit. It is a good replacement and much needed improvement. That doesnt mean it is perfect or that it is immune from critique. They still have incredibly silly problems which would have been fixed if they just had paid attention, like the angled wheelbays. But the issue with HB/Trumpeter is that they dont pay attention. They slap something together and sometimes it turns out pretty good while other times it turns out horrific. (like 48 Su-24M and 32 Su-25) It is random, and it shouldnt be random.

Edited by Berkut
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Of course everyone can critique, but please stop bringing 1/72 as an example because these 1/48 HB flankers are updated. It makes zero sense what so ever to talk about 1/72s here. Your estimate of 3mm for the windshield is too much, imho. I think your take on lerx is also wrong. Please check the excellent build of adrianmunozm britmodeller:

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235000932-148-su-27-flanker-hobbyboss/

Edited by foxmulder_ms
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4 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said:

Of course everyone can critique, but please stop bringing 1/72 as an example because these 1/48 HB flankers are updated. It makes zero sense what so ever to talk about 1/72s here. Your estimate of 3mm for the windshield is too much, imho. I think your take on lerx is also wrong. Please check the excellent build of adrianmunozm britmodeller:

 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235000932-148-su-27-flanker-hobbyboss/

Well reasoned and argued counter argument, will read again.

 

Pray tell. Are the wheelbays wrong in exactly same way as they are in the 72 kit or not? Does the 48 kit has the LERX S curve or does it not just like the 72 one? Are the intakes on the base of the vertical stabs still same size when they should be different? Yes they are. Is the spine in 48 kit fixed or is it the same like it was in the 72 kit? Shouldnt come as surprise at this point - same.

 

And yes, i checked his build, which still shows me the same things i have said before, especially the LERX. I know this might come as a shock - but the LERX in the 72 kit looks exactly the same as it does in the 48 one. Take a look at this picture (right click and copy paste the address in a new tab to open in high resolution) especially on the area from under the cockpit pitot and on towards the nose;

 

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/adrianmunozm/Su-27 Hobbyboss/DSC_0191_zpslatmjjyb.jpg~original

 

And compare to for example this;

 

8h1Lm6t.jpg

 

Does it look as sharp and as marked to you? It doesn't to me. While at it, also compare the spine behind the airbrake. HB spine (and again, same issue in the 72 kit) looks smooth and floats into the rest of the fuselage while on the real thing it is quite marked;

 

oQvdb4W.jpg

 

Or compare this (again, open picture address in new tab for high res);

 

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/adrianmunozm/Su-27 Hobbyboss/DSC_0190_zpshq0enheu.jpg~original

 

Against this, this picture is also high resolution;

 

Zq6xswQ.jpg

 

I hope you have something more interesting to offer now than just "I think your take on lerx is also wrong." I really dont understand why people want to defend HB/Trump til they are blue over their mistakes. It is fine to be aware of the mistakes in a kit and dont care about them. Bless you - build it and i or anyone else wont care.

Edited by Berkut
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On ‎21‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:11 AM, Berkut said:

 

1; If you dont think LERX in Pep's picture (excellent build so far btw!) looks skinny compared to this;

 

199192.jpg

 

Well then, there is nothing i can help you with.

 

2; I also suspect the the LERX ends too early. Here is where the end point is;

 

DlHs5fz.jpg

 

 

Antoine, I'm well sure you understand that the angle at which that Su-35 was pictured greatly emphasizes the shape of the LERX, in which case, I'll have to take a look at the Hobby Boss kit LERX at the same angle to discern whether you're right or not

 

DSC_0183_zpsv5cih6ch.jpg

 

Now, looking at the pictures of the real thing that you've posted, and this picture by Adrián Muñoz above, I'll grant you that the LERX does seem to end too early on the Hobby Boss kit, if you notice how it tappers abruptly against the forward fuselage (check the area before the AOA sensors on the LERX), and perhaps this is why it looks wrong - an issue that'd be easily fixable once identified.

Thing is I've heard people saying things against this kit, things that are not the case; i.e., the washout on the wingtips. Upon checking my kit I discovered that the washout was indeed there, only that there was a slight warpage amidst the wing chord on the Hobby Boss kit, (clearly noticeable on the above pic), that made the wingtips veer upwards.

Things you're right about this kit is that the intakes on the tailfins are wrong (as are the MLG Wheel bays); this thing about the spine behind the airbrake being too smooth I think you're just being too picky there.

 

DSC_0191_zpslatmjjyb.jpg

 

Also, the picture on which you base your evidence that the windshield/canopy appears bulbous is not even of an Hobby Boss 1/48 Su-27/J-11 example!

Anyone flying the flag of a manufacturer is a rotten egg in my opinion; it's quite sad to know that there are modellers who are biased towards manufacturers because they get well paid to do so. Anyone like those deserves nothing but contempt. Tell me, are you one of those?

 

No manufacturer will ever be able to deliver a 100% scale replica of any aircraft (I wish there were, but we've already had good examples to prove that wrong). You are well acquainted with the ways of plastic injection/model development techniques, and also with the sorry fact that even when there exist a couple of mainstream manufacturers who feed on modellers in order to develop their new releases, still they had all of those die-hards on which they fed greatly disappointed about one aspect or another.

So, what is modelling all about for you, bloke? Building a kit part by part as the instruction sheet says until it's done?

That's not what modelling is all about for me. I'd rather get manufacturers to slowly deliver better kits of what we had than think that someone will ever deliver a perfect kit.

 

Perhaps in the near future some manufacturer will, maybe the next century, when techniques improve.

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Antoine

Stop that, right now. It is rude and clownish. And i see elements of that not just towards me, so believe me i dont feel personally persecuted by you.:rolleyes: Also a reminder to you and everyone else; you have been on ARC before and was promptly banned in part for displaying things like the above but much worse.

 

Quote

Now, looking at the pictures of the real thing that you've posted, and this picture by Adrián Muñoz above, I'll grant you that the LERX does seem to end too early on the Hobby Boss kit, if you notice how it tappers abruptly against the forward fuselage (check the area before the AOA sensors on the LERX), and perhaps this is why it looks wrong - an issue that'd be easily fixable once identified.

So we have finally come full circle, and LERX is wrong afterall despite some shouting loudly that it isnt and it was just me seeing things. And it not just that it is very likely ending too soon, but also when the LERX is there it is simply not wide enough. Again, an issue seen on 72 kit too and never corrected.

 

Quote

this thing about the spine behind the airbrake being too smooth I think you're just being too picky there.

Whether i am being picky or not doesnt change the facts. And the facts is clearly that the spine is too smooth in Trumpeterboss kits. And i dont think it is picky at all when the spine on the real thing is as marked as it is. As i said;

 

Quote

It is fine to be aware of the mistakes in a kit and dont care about them. Bless you - build it and i or anyone else wont care.

 

As to me using J-15 1/72 kit as an example you are clearly, and on purpose i think, missing the point. As i said, the main issue with the HB canopy (1/48 scale) might not even be in profile, but in surface area. I used the J-15 picture to demonstrate my point. And maybe the HB canopy might just be perfect or close enough to be consider to be so, i dont have enough information either way to be 100% sure about it.

 

Quote

Anyone flying the flag of a manufacturer is a rotten egg in my opinion; it's quite sad to know that there are modellers who are biased towards manufacturers because they get well paid to do so. Anyone like those deserves nothing but contempt. Tell me, are you one of those?

Are you seriously suggesting that i am being paid to smear HB/Trumpeter kits to invent issues they have in their kits? Opposite side of this, people being paid to defend HB/Trumpeter/Whoever is also clearly nonsense and conspiracy theory. Nonsense that has no place on ARC IMHO and again is relevant to the first point i made. It is extremely disrespectful to even suggest anything like that in either direction. Drop it.

 

I am not after HB/Trumpeter making a "perfect" kit. I am after them stop being lazy and churn out products at insane production rate with a subpar quality that has silly mistakes. They wouldn't have made the wheelbay mistake for example which is super obvious if they just had paid attention for more than 1 min.

 

11 hours ago, fulcrum1 said:

Does anyone know where the cheapest place to pick this kit up online is?

 

I dont know if they are *the* cheapest places, but both LuckyModel and HobbyEasy have it for 43 USD.

Edited by Berkut
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18 hours ago, The Scaremonger said:

 

Anyone flying the flag of a manufacturer is a rotten egg in my opinion; it's quite sad to know that there are modellers who are biased towards manufacturers because they get well paid to do so. Anyone like those deserves nothing but contempt. Tell me, are you one of those?

 

THIS IS BY FAR THE MOST STUPID COMMENT I EVER READ HERE!!!!!  what else in your conspiracy theory man???? you're the worst turd to hang around here by far! the first i had to block in my PM because sending hanger menaces messages! ...you should be banned again ENKA, like you where when you where known as Uncle Uncool!

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5 hours ago, mingwin said:

...you should be banned again ENKA, like you where when you where known as Uncle Uncool!

 

Aha ... so that's where The Uncool went. I have to edit my Ignore List - thanks for that heads up!

 

Gene K

 

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I think this is what Berkut means about the spine shape .....

 

flanker%20spine%20compare_01.jpg

 

This is the Trumpeter 1/72 scale J-11B (left) and Zvezda Su-33 (right) - note how the Trumpeter spine is a smooth, shallow curve - whilst the Zvezda correct spine is 'sharper' and more pronounced.

 

Forget the lower (tail end) of the Su-33 spine - it starts to bulge upwards more that the Su-27 spine - but the front end forward of the engine nacelles is the same.

 

Admittedly I'm not comparing the HB 1/48 scale Su-27 here - but as its an upscale of the Trumpeter 1/72 kit, I expect the shape is the same??

 

If someone could do the same on the HB Su-27??? - it would help.

 

Whether it bothers you or not is up to you - I'm just providing input.

 

I also think that the point here is that we, as a strict amateurs, can spot these shapes, then so should the kit manufacturers - that is if they are ever bothered (I suspect not)

 

Ken

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Nice comparison Ken - exactly my point indeed. And 1/72 Trumpeter spine looks exactly like 1/48 HB one, which isn't surprising. Will you be doing a "review" of Zvezda Su-33 or comparison against the Hasegawa kit Ken?

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, murad said:

my hat's off to the Ruskies, they managed to incite a forum flame war over curves! :touche:

 

It isn't possible to design an accurate 3D model of an aircraft without cross-section / frame shapes.

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4 hours ago, Flankerman said:

I think this is what Berkut means about the spine shape .....

 

flanker%20spine%20compare_01.jpg

 

This is the Trumpeter 1/72 scale J-11B (left) and Zvezda Su-33 (right) - note how the Trumpeter spine is a smooth, shallow curve - whilst the Zvezda correct spine is 'sharper' and more pronounced.

 

Forget the lower (tail end) of the Su-33 spine - it starts to bulge upwards more that the Su-27 spine - but the front end forward of the engine nacelles is the same.

 

Admittedly I'm not comparing the HB 1/48 scale Su-27 here - but as its an upscale of the Trumpeter 1/72 kit, I expect the shape is the same??

 

If someone could do the same on the HB Su-27??? - it would help.

 

Whether it bothers you or not is up to you - I'm just providing input.

 

I also think that the point here is that we, as a strict amateurs, can spot these shapes, then so should the kit manufacturers - that is if they are ever bothered (I suspect not)

 

Ken

 

 

Thanks!

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You know, I used to be one who would sweat the small details and obsess about minor little flaws of kits. I must admit I found it enjoyable to be able to scrutinise kits and find all the tiniest of faults But the result was having absolutely nothing to show for it. I spent more time agonising over small detail inaccuracies and this paralysed my ability to build anything. There was almost nothing that was up to perfection that I sought. I became embarrassed to call myself a scale modeller simply because there was no modelling done, just nit-picking and over-analysing.

 

I missed the joy of completing builds so much that I resolved to not get stuck in with the minor issues and just enjoy the building process which was the fun that I had sought when I first picked up the hobby. So from having zero completed builds in 2015, I am currently up to 6 this year. Hopefully I can finish a seventh before the year ends. 

 

So for those who like to pick on the flaws of kits, please continue to do so. This helps us all identify which kits are alright and which are to be avoided. For those who are not so particular, don't get sucked into picking fights with the "rivet counters". Instead, pick up your kits and start building them. 

 

And since we're on the topic of the HobbyBoss Flanker, here is my WIP thread in the Build-a-Bear GB.

 

 

Mark

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