jimm33 Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Very good build review/blog taking place over on Aeroscale's web site. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) For the record, i was very reluctant to diss this kit when it came out, and i dismissed early comments out- of- hand when the kit first hit the shelves; especially since KittyHawk has assumed the "Whipping Boy" mantle from Eduard. While KH didn't thump their metaphorical chest like Eduard did with their BF-109s, they DID plaster the Detail & Scale name on the box, which to me is synonymous with research and getting things "right". It doesn't take a rivet counter to compare photos of the finished model with photos of the real thing to discover that...... something doesn't look quite right. I don't know if this is a case of Chinese tool makers getting "creative" with the specs(it happens- just ask Jennings Heilig), i don't know if warning flags went up and were ignored, i don't know if the kit went over budget. However, for whatever reason, it was thrown over the wall in its present form. To me, i can live with the vertical fin being a little bit broad in chord, but the overly humpbacked wing root really puts me off. Why? because its REALLY hard to fix. The Banshee isn't my all time favourite Navy jet, so i have less heartburn than most over this but..... they should have gotten this right. Not like there's a lack of information on the subject. I think what angers people more than anything else, is they are not improving. They seem to be operating in a bubble, oblivious to comments coming from the outside. On a more positive note, Vector resin just came out with new wheels for the F5U Flapjack, which is a cool looking model. david Edited November 13, 2016 by Falcon50EX Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimm33 Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 Hi David! Great comments. A missed opportunity by KH for sure. I'm especially saddened because I do feel that the Banshee is an essential kit for Korean War era modelers. I feel bad for Detail & Scale since they provided research effort before and constructive criticism after the kit's release. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I take no pleasure in criticizing KH, and when i do its only after careful consideration. However they're either ignoring concerns to improve their game, or they're just paying lip service. Korean War subject matter doesn't get the "love" it deserves in the first place, and like you said the Banshee is a pretty significant player in that ordeal. They really should have done better. Perhaps someone like Kinetic, AMK, AvantGarde or TanModel will consider taking it on. In the mean time.... i do have the Airfix kit, and i hear the new Sword offering is very nice. -d- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimm33 Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 Hi again! I totally agree. I don't like to bash anyone needlessly. What I don't get is a company spending the capital for tooling and not doing it right the first time. And, we're not talking about a minor screwup like the nose gear door configuration but the intake bulge problem is just not acceptable nor easy to fix. It ruins the look of the plane for sure. I hope that another company will consider stepping up and doing the Banshee justice. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beauslx Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 On top of the issues noted. To my eye at least, the nose is also wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpk Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 On 11/1/2016 at 9:44 PM, jpk said: My understanding is; Bert Kinzey of D&S only supplied research material and I believe Tommy Thomason also may have helped to a degree. I believe that was pretty much the extent of their involvement though. How that material was interpreted by the CAD designer Song, the resultant product is his. To my knowledge, D&S received no financial compensation for their effort nor were they asked to evaluate anything as work progressed. They just wanted to hopefully get an accurate model and help where ever they could. They saw the test shots pretty much when everyone else saw them on the net and then at the Nats. Once the test shot appeared there was little if anything that could have been corrected, the molds were set. I find the kit to be a huge disappointment and nothing short of cutting new molds will correct it. Lets hope the 3/4 Banshee will be better if they indeed intend to release one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I'm sorry to say, don't hold your breath. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimm33 Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Roger that, guys. As I recall, the CAD images may have been more accurate than the finished product. Shame on them for not communicating thru the tooling cutting process. As we've said, I think we can live or work around the minor mistakes but the intakes are what they are and cannot be easily fixed. Maybe, an entirely new resin center section could be made to include an insert for the fuselage cutout. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B.Sin Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Here's an idea Kittyhawk should try, how about getting it right in the first place! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimm33 Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Spot on!! We used to have a saying at work: "Right the first time". No wonder Tamiya and others take so long to bring a new kit to market! Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Happy Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 It's the only game in town in 1/48🤔😕 All we can hope for is that some other company can rectify this with better quality over site👀 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Sorry all I see is a slightly overlooked intake that does nothing to my eye to ruin the looks of the original kit. You want to see bad? Try the Monogram F-105 nose/front end, a kit that everyone loves but because it hasn't been picked apart like KH people still build today. It makes the Banshees issues look tiny by comparison. An excellent blog post at Tommy Thomason on his blog about this kit. I also note the good old "spend the money once get it right the first time" chestnut is back. Seriously you guys can't be serious what you really mean to say is..." Spend four times the money doing three times the work in five times the time then realise it will still get ripped apart by guys with no interest other than screaming about every new kit so just scrap the project and do something more popular like a 109". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 To keep straying off topic, funny how the Monogram F-105 keeps getting slammed for having a misshapen nose. Drawings of the Thud usually overstate the amount of curvature in the nose profile between the windscreen and the pitot tube, and photos tend to distort the look of the nose, slightly. The curvature of the nose profile was actually very subtle, and then it switched to a true cone for the forward 1/4 of the radome. Many years ago, our local club delivered some built models, including a Monogram F-105, to the pilots at Seymour Johnson AFB. We had the opportunity to stand next to the F-105 gate guard, and compare the Monogram kit to it. The 1/1 jet is on a pole, banked slightly, so you can see the profile. Consensus was, Monogram got it right. The problem with the Monogram kit is the radome is slightly undersized in diameter where it mates to the fuselage, and the pitot tube is too thick and is slightly off center if you just plug it into the radome, which throws the look of the model off. If you address those issues with the radome, the model looks right. I've done it a couple of times. Cheers! Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpk Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 To stray even farther off re: the Monogram 105, I always thought it looked pretty good myself but I wasn't as much of a rivet counter with those kits as I am with the USN kits. I've pretty much thinned my collection down to just USN post war aircraft. I did however, have a much broader collection of subjects prior to the purge. The Banshee is just a totally wreck. I would buy one if Dmitri at Dmold made a correction set for it. Maybe he will. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimm33 Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 All good comments and observations guys! Thanks for the inputs! I guess from my standpoint, I have waited many years for a Banshee kit for my Korean War/50's navy collection so I was disappointed with the KH offering. Sometime down the road I may well buy the kit anyway especially if Furball does a decal set for it. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 How do these Kitty Hawk Korean kits build up? I ask because my Mig-25 was warped beyond my ability to fix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimm33 Posted December 3, 2016 Author Share Posted December 3, 2016 My experience with KH is limited to their F-94C and the F9F-8 Cougar. The Starfire was a very good build and came out nicely. The Cougar however was a bear mainly due to a lack of a positive way to build a jet with extended wings. I eventually ordered a second kit with Furball decals and will eventually try again (slower this time). BTW, Furball includes a sheet of corrections for the kit which will come in handy. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AD-4N Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 What a shame. I really wanted this kit to be good. But to me, the shape errors are too much. Just the way I see it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim S Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I remember how disappointed I was when Amtech was rumored to be working on the Banshee and went belly up... Probably a dumb question but has anybody tried matching the wing of the Hawk kit to the KH kit? Kinda like making lemonade with two different lemon's? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 The fuselage over the engines is the most glaring problem in my opinion. No kit bashing can fix that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimm33 Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 I have been trying to figure a way to do that but with just sheet styrene, I don't think it can be done. At least and have it look half way decent. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpk Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 It seems the old Collect Aire F2H-2 Banshee in resin is still the most accurate early Banshee in 1/48 scale. There's a kit review and build on Cybermodeler by Fotios Rouch. No doubt difficult and hard to find, possibly expensive, but still better than the Kitty Hawk kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimm33 Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Hi jpk, I saw that build several years ago. Fotios did a beautiful job too with a -2 and a -2P as I recall. I know Classic Airframes had planned a -2 before they went under and was always hopeful that someone else might pick up the project. All in all, I think the Banshee is still a worthy kit for someone else to consider maybe along with a new tool F9F-2/3/5 Panther. The Korean War time frame is a very interesting period in history for modeling. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the helos from the war like the HO4S, H-5, HUP, etc. Anyway, we have the Banshee we have for now. Hopefully, someone else will step up the the plate and do the jet justice. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpk Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) I just have to feel there may be one of the other kit makers out there that are evaluating the size of the want for and of the size of the disappointment with the Kitty Hawk Banshee. Possibly turning Kitty Hawks failure into one of a success for their company. I had mentioned on Kitty Hawk's Facebook page when they first announced they were doing a two seat Cougar that they better get it right. The Cougar would sell well if they did a good job, one which I feel for the most part they did. It is accurate in outline. It does have build issues which are well documented but they got the overall look right. The Banshee is such a huge disappointment, far beyond what was bad with the Cougars, I will not buy one. I'm perfectly satisfied with the Monogram F9F-5. It would be nice if it had engraved panel lines but overall the kit is quite nice. The Trumpeter -2/3 is terrible. It would be nice if some company picked up the two with modern molding techniques but until then the Monogram kit will do. I went so far as to graft a Monogram -5 nose and canopy onto the Trumpeter kit along with shortening the fuselage for a better -2 Panther. I really should try to finish it. It is primed and ready. Edited December 12, 2016 by jpk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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