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What constitutes an 'OOB' bulid?


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So I'm currently working on an old 1/48 Monogram F-5F from 1985 that I've had stashed away for awhile, and seemed like a good excuse to use the Adversary Ghosts sheet that Fightertown released a few years back. I've been kinda impressed with the work I've done with it, and thought about entering in an upcoming show, but I've run into a bit of quandry. I've essentially built this kit from what I've always viewed as OOB. However, the shows rules on OOB are rather vague and up for interpretation. I haven't gotten much a response from the organizers which has not helped to alleviate the confusion. The only thing that I've really been able to confirm is that aftermarket decal sheets can be used. Beyond that, I don't have much to go on. I always went under the impression that an OOB build cannot have any parts that did not come with the kit that were specifically made to add detail or correct errors in the kit. But then I attended a small show about a year and a half ago where the kit that would've easily won the OOB category was disqualified because the builder chose to discard a part that wasn't to his liking, and instead created his own from bulk styrene.

 

This is what I've basically done to modify my kit to fit the decals, scheme, and time period I've chosen for the kit:

 

- Removed the raised detail and scribed recessed lines 

- Modified 1 of the kits AIM-9Js to resemble an AIM-9M. This required shortening the missile length and making new forward fins from strip/sheet styrene.

- Scratch built an ACMI pod from two different sized styrene rods.

- Modified the kits 270 gallon centerline tank to resemble the 150 gallon tank that aggressors commonly sport on the centerline. This was done by removing about an inch of the center section of the tank and gluing the front section back on. Strip and rod styrene were used to add missing details.

- Cut and glued 2 small styrene tubes to the inside of the exhaust nozzles. The tubes were then capped off with sheet styrene and painted black. This prevents someone from looking down the intakes or nozzles and seeing all the way thru the model.

- Made a new HUD display glass from clear styrene sheet

- Antenna on top of the tail made from strip styrene - I later found out the kit does have this part (although not called out in the instructions, which is why I missed it).

 

Essentially, only the decals are aftermarket. All other modifications/details are scratch built from bulk styrene. Now from my understanding, IPMS judging rules would qualify this as an OOB build, since the only real aftermarket part is the decals. Anyone else have a different take on this?

 

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You should be able to find a copy of the OOB rules on the IPMS/USA web site.  There have been a few changes that loosened up OOB, however, as I remember, some of the changes you made will bump you out of the category.

HTH, Dave

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I fail to see where the confusion lies;

 

C. CONSTRUCTION. The modeler may fill seams and gaps; sand off rivets; drill out gun ports, exhaust pipes, or other appropriate openings; thin to scale such parts as trailing edges, flaps, and doors; add rigging and antennas; and add simple tape or decal seat belts in the cockpit of an aircraft or the interior of a vehicle (NO commercial or modeler-manufactured hardware - e.g., buckles, etc.).
 

D. IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO: vacuform, manufacture, or replace any part, or substitute parts from another kit; cut or separate canopies, surfaces, hatches, doors, etc. (no major surgery); combine a standard kit with a conversion kit; add anything other than specified on the instruction sheet except as shown in Section C above.

 

from;http://www.ipmsusa.org/competition_handbook/CompHandbook2002.html

 

Cheers, Tony

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Spooky,

 

I have been competing in IPMS contests all over the SE United States and have always used the rule of thumb as if it is not in the kit box or is not specifically specified on the instruction sheet, it is not allowed in OOB competition.  That is why most all of the chapters will dis-qualify an OOB entry if the instructions are not included with the entry.  Every modifications that you did pretty much fractures the "manufacture or replace parts" and the "no major surgery" rules as outlined in "D".  On a positive note, I have seen contests to have special categories where the modeler takes an old or classic "souse's ear" kit and transforms it into a "silk purse" with the use of modern technologies and building techniques.  Hope this helps!

 

Best Regards,

Ken Bailey

(SonyKen)

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Recently they started to allow aftermarket seatbelts...

Sec III Part B says B. The general OOB approach is to build what came in the kit. In some cases, however, this may result in an incomplete or inaccurate model. For this reason, the OOB requirements allow for some exemptions beyond what was strictly in the box. These include but are not limited to, for example, the addition of rigging wires, seatbelts and antennas on aircraft, antennas and closed sponsons for military vehicles, and rigging and deck railings on ships. Exemptions vary from Class to Class, but allow for commonly accepted construction techniques and standards while still maintaining the general OOB approach.

 

So there is some latitude in the OOB section... which is only fair b/c these days an Eduard Profi-Pack or Limited Ed. kit has a  bunch of goodies already in the box...

Edited by viper730
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On 10/17/2016 at 4:09 PM, viper730 said:

Recently they started to allow aftermarket seatbelts...

Sec III Part B says B. The general OOB approach is to build what came in the kit. In some cases, however, this may result in an incomplete or inaccurate model. For this reason, the OOB requirements allow for some exemptions beyond what was strictly in the box. These include but are not limited to, for example, the addition of rigging wires, seatbelts and antennas on aircraft, antennas and closed sponsons for military vehicles, and rigging and deck railings on ships. Exemptions vary from Class to Class, but allow for commonly accepted construction techniques and standards while still maintaining the general OOB approach.

 

So there is some latitude in the OOB section... which is only fair b/c these days an Eduard Profi-Pack or Limited Ed. kit has a  bunch of goodies already in the box...

This is why OOB should be done away with. If you truly want to adhere to the spirit of OOB, then it should become "plastic only" that comes in the box. OOB was originally created in response to modelers like Shep Paine, who would scratch build more accurate detail on those early kits that were lacking. Others didn't have the skills, so the OOB category was created so they could still compete. Today, however, the kits (i.e.: Tamiya F-14) are so beautifully rendered, OOB is just about useless.

Edited by Darren Roberts
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Why should it be done away with ???   This arguement comes up every time OOB is brought up.   The net effect, is that more folks can and do enter contests due to the inclusion of OOB categories.   It's still about fundamental skills, not the 'wow' factor at all, anyway

 

I enjoy viewing the OOB entries to see how and what the folks do in their constraints

 

My tuppence,  

 

Tony

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I would say building some old models out of the box and getting great results is MUCH more challenging than putting together some of the new high-tech all inclusive models. When you have to massage plastic halves together because there is a 1/4" wide gap at the nose and a 15 degree twist at the tail and you can still get a smooth joint that can't be seen when judged. THAT's modeling skill and patience. Just because you throw together 300 pieces that precisely manufactured to fit perfectly doesn't mean your kit should beat out an older kit. It just means your effort was put into getting more parts in place without mistakes. I'd say it's a wash overall.

 

Bill

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I don't think OOB should be done any with either.  How can an OOB compete against a model that has every aftermarket item added to it. There are times when I don't have to cash to add, for example, the correct seats or all the other aftermarket goodies.

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Yes, I too like looking at the OOB models. They can work as a baseline for "what can be accomplished" with any given model tooling.

 

The only part I don't like about OOB is the fact that I build jets. And I very much dislike the "supersonic fuel tank transporter" look on my own models. Since a lot of models only give you that option, or that option plus the "same ole missile load" that everyone else might build OOB, I can't very easily "build for myself" and for OOB.

 

That puts something as simple to me as an F-4D with LGBs into the open category.

 

I imagine that the kits that include bonus weapons with the old basic boxing are very prized by the OOB competitors. (certain specific Hasegawa Skyraiders, for example)

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I know that this isn't how it works, but I always thought that since Hasegawa (for example) puts weapon load information in many of its kits (whether said info is correct or not is irrelevant for now), and I think refers one to their weapon sets to arm the models, a modeler doing so should be able to enter that model as OOB.  The builded was just following the instructions, after all, and the parts still all came from the same manufacturer.

 

Just my tuppence...

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27 minutes ago, Joe Hegedus said:

I know that this isn't how it works, but I always thought that since Hasegawa (for example) puts weapon load information in many of its kits (whether said info is correct or not is irrelevant for now), and I think refers one to their weapon sets to arm the models, a modeler doing so should be able to enter that model as OOB.  The builded was just following the instructions, after all, and the parts still all came from the same manufacturer.

 

Just my tuppence...

I would bring just such a thing to the head Judge and present the case. If I were the Judge I'd approve your model....

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3 hours ago, Snowbird3a said:

Why should it be done away with ???   This arguement comes up every time OOB is brought up.   The net effect, is that more folks can and do enter contests due to the inclusion of OOB categories.   It's still about fundamental skills, not the 'wow' factor at all, anyway

 

I enjoy viewing the OOB entries to see how and what the folks do in their constraints

 

My tuppence,  

 

Tony

I've been the head judge for our local show for over 10 years. We used to have an OOB category. We no longer do because no one entered it. If we did, we'd have maybe 3-4 entries. My experience is that having an OOB category doesn't draw that many more people. Also, having judged so many contests, I've seen models with every bit of aftermarket lose to a simple kit built OOB because the model with everything in it didn't have the basics done well. It doesn't matter how much aftermarket you put in it. If you problems with alignment or silvering decals, you won't win. I don't necessarily disagree with OOB. My argument is that kits today come with resin and PE. How is that really OOB? That's no different than buying aftermarket and putting it in. Hence my suggestion that they have "plastic only". The other thread of the discussion deals with quality of kits. If I build the Monogram Tomcat and do it perfectly, I will still lose to a Tamiya Tomcat everytime with all things being equal. At that point, should the judges take difficulty of build into account? Now you're starting to get subjectivity into the judging, which is the opposite of what you really want out of judging. What's interesting are the questions about how far a modeler can go before it's not OOB. Why do that? Why not just build what comes in the box? If you really want to see what people can do, the rules of OOB should be revised to the plastic that comes in the kit with no modification whatsoever. Now that would be interesting to see.

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