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F-4 unusual load


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Check the 5:11 mark of this video:

 

 

to see a F-4 with a load of LGBs on the i/b pylons and napalm on the c/l MER. The LGBs are normally dropped from high altitude while the nape is delivered much closer to the ground.

 

Jari

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9 hours ago, Alpagueur said:

which bombs are these?

 

F-4C1_zps7358c2ed.jpg

 

was it possible to hang up 4 on a centerline MER?

 

They look like BLU-23/32, they are both similar in size and shape. Due to the length only 3 could be carried on the c/l MER.

 

Jari

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19 hours ago, Alpagueur said:

which bombs are these?

 

F-4C1_zps7358c2ed.jpg

 

was it possible to hang up 4 on a centerline MER?

F-4s didn't carry BLU-23/32. These are unfinned BLU-27s. The centerline MER carried one on the aft centerline and two on the front shoulder stations.

Edited by mrvark
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4 hours ago, mrvark said:

These are unfinned BLU-27s. The centerline MER carried one on the aft centerline and two on the front shoulder stations.

 

finned, too? I'd like tu put 2-3 of them on the belly of the 'Casper' or the 'Brain Damage'...

many thanks.

Edited by Alpagueur
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Note how in the bottom photo just above (no tail code on the jet) the front and back sections of the bombs are rounded (ogive) while in the other photos they are straight (conical)?

The ogive ones are the BLU-1 fire bombs while the conical ones (also with the red nose bands) are the later BLU-27s. From what I've been able to see, the BLU-1s were expended pretty early in the war and the BLU-27s were used MUCH more often. Unfortunately, most model kits (including the Hasegawa bomb kits) have the BLU-1s.

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Jim, these are all BLU-27s but they seem different from each other:

 

Videoaviation 1/32:

blu27f_02.jpg

 

AMS resin 1/32:

1351-2.jpg

 

Aerobonus 1/48:

ARB-480036_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1456643979

 

BLU-1 seem very similar to the firs two (rounded ogive)... so which is the real form of the BLU-27?

 

Daco Publications BLU1/B Finned Napalm Canister (Resin Armament) -- Plastic Model Weapon Kit -- 1/32 Scale -- #3207

Edited by Alpagueur
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On 10/20/2016 at 0:40 AM, Finn said:

Here are a couple more F-4 with nape pics:

 

PhuCatEORF4D634.gif

 

3399321.jpg

 

Jari

Would the baggage pods from the Hasegawa 1/48 F-16 work to represent the napalm on the f-4's shown in the two photos above? There are also some in the Monogram 1/48 A-37 that look like napalm as well.

 

In the photo below, the ones on the left are from the Hasegawa F-16 and on the right are from the Monogram A-37. Which ones would be the best ones to use?

DSC_0029_zpshnyazyez.jpg

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On 10/21/2016 at 6:09 PM, Alpagueur said:

Jim, these are all BLU-27s but they seem different from each other:

Videoaviation 1/32:

AMS resin 1/32:

Aerobonus 1/48:

BLU-1 seem very similar to the firs two (rounded ogive)... so which is the real form of the BLU-27?

 

First, let's do a primer on Napalm bombs. The BLU-1 was assembled in the field and bolted together. So, aside from the (more expensive to produce) ogive nose and tail sections, another sure give away that you're looking at a 750-lb BLU-1 (or 250-lb BLU-10 or 500-lb BLU-23) is a metal flange that ran along the bottom of the cylindrical section of the bomb. They were also never painted (although some of the later bombs could also be unpainted, so that alone doesn't constitute 'proof'). These bombs were most effective when they were used without fins because they would tumble, causing their contents to more widely disperse. However, if used by fast movers from higher altitudes it was necessary to install tail fins to increase their accuracy. The original BLU-1 fin was the MXU-393, which bolted together (from the rear, the section that held the fins together was a square). A big drawback to this fin was that the decision to install it had to be made as the bomb was being assembled--to remove it required disassembly of the bomb. Beginning with the BLU-1C/B, the MXU-469 was introduced; it was welded and the rear section was circular; it was also used by the BLU-27, and was attached after the bomb was assembled. The BLU-23 could be fitted with the similar MXU-467 fin. (The BLU-10s did not have a finned option.) By the way, the fill caps on all bombs were offset 20-deg from the centerline--looking from the top of the bomb, with the nose on top, the front cap was offset to the left, the rear one to the right. The old Hasegawa bomb kits have finned BLU-1s.

 

These early bombs were quickly replaced (first showing up in service in early 1966) by the 750-lb BLU-27 and 500-lb BLU-32 (the BLU-10s were only used by COIN aircraft-- e.g., A-1s & T-28s--and weren't replaced). These bombs were welded together, thus eliminating the centerline flange and were usually filled in the factory with Napalm B. To reduced their cost, the ogive nose and tail sections were replaced with conical sections. They always had red bands painted around the nose and tail. Beginning in late 1970, with introduction of the BLU-27A/B and BLU-32A/B, the bombs were painted olive drab along with the red bands. After Vietnam, the USAF stopped using Napalm and many of the surviving BLU-27s were converted into MXU-648 travel pods.

 

The Videoaviation bombs appear to be (from looking at the photo) BLU-1 with the with the early MXU-393 fin. It had the fill caps shown on the centerline, which is incorrect and I can't tell if it has the centerline flange or not. I do like their nose caps though.

 

The AMS bombs are correct and have the later MXU-469 fins. The ones shown have what I think is an early nose cap that I've never seen a picture of on an operational bomb (I think Harold may have changed this on later releases of the kit). The nose caps were sometimes left off, but not usually. (I suspect the bombs on the KB-coded jet may not have been installed yet.)

 

The Aerobonus bombs have the conical end sections of the BLU-27, but retain the centerline flange of the BLU-1. The fill caps are nice, but mounted on the centerline and the end caps are too long and rounded.

 

As they say on the packaging, the DACO bombs are finned BLU-1s with the MXU-393 fins. Full disclosure: both the AMS and DACO bombs were produced using my drawings, which were made referencing both official drawings, records and measuring actual bombs.

 

On 10/21/2016 at 6:19 PM, Alpagueur said:

my suspect is that ONLY the bomb on the outer wing pylon is a BLU-27... the others ones are BIGGER

 

All of the bombs loaded on the KB-coded jet are BLU-27/Bs. They'd only carry one kind of fire bomb at a time (different bombs have different ballistics) and the only kinds the F-4 carried were the 750-lb BLU-1 or -27.

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51 minutes ago, twong said:

Would the baggage pods from the Hasegawa 1/48 F-16 work to represent the napalm on the f-4's shown in the two photos above? There are also some in the Monogram 1/48 A-37 that look like napalm as well.

 

In the photo below, the ones on the left are from the Hasegawa F-16 and on the right are from the Monogram A-37. Which ones would be the best ones to use?

 

They're both pretty awful. The Hasegawa ones are either too short or too fat (can't tell without knowing their size) and the end caps are way too pointed. The Monogram ones are better, but have conical nose and tail sections while retaining the centerline flange. Also, I'm mystified by the little bump just behind the flange. The fins are incorrect and should be mounted in an 'X', not '+' configuration. The nose fill cap is in the right location, but seems a bit too large and there is no aft fill cap. Also, without knowing how big they are, they could be 500-lb, vice 750-lb bombs.

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48 minutes ago, mrvark said:

They're both pretty awful. The Hasegawa ones are either too short or too fat (can't tell without knowing their size) and the end caps are way too pointed. The Monogram ones are better, but have conical nose and tail sections while retaining the centerline flange. Also, I'm mystified by the little bump just behind the flange. The fins are incorrect and should be mounted in an 'X', not '+' configuration. The nose fill cap is in the right location, but seems a bit too large and there is no aft fill cap. Also, without knowing how big they are, they could be 500-lb, vice 750-lb bombs.

Thanks! The Hasegawa 1/48 pods are 2 and 7/10th inches long by 3/5th of an inch wide. The Monogram 1/48 ones are 2 and 4/5th inches long and 2/5th of an inch wide. Both widths are approximate rounded off to the higher end.

 

I was planning on using the Hasegawa pods for an F-4D to represent the napalm canisters. I am planning on using the Monogram ones with the tips cut off for a USMC F-4B. Total 100% accuracy isn't an issue for me but I would like something close. If the Hasegawa and Monogram ones are close enough then that is fine with me.

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2 hours ago, Finn said:

The ones in the pic of the Monogram A-37 "nape" are the ext fuel tanks, the napalm are the ones to the left of them in this pic:

Jari

Thanks! The external tanks actually look better.

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thanks Jim! So the MXU-469 are the unique correct fins for the BLU-27/B?

 

http://combatace.com/topic/82525-blu-1-warning-label/

 

MXU-393/B fin:Image3.jpg

 

MXU-469/B:Image6.jpg

 

 

5 hours ago, mrvark said:

The Videoaviation bombs appear to be (from looking at the photo) BLU-1 with the with the early MXU-393 fin. It had the fill caps shown on the centerline, which is incorrect and I can't tell if it has the centerline flange or not. I do like their nose caps though.

 

Can't undestand the question of the fill caps...they seem correctly placed by the above figure (but they are BLU-1B/B and C/B respectively)

AMS and Aerobonus bombs do have the fill caps placed in the same position... so which would be the correct position for them?

Edited by Alpagueur
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Thanks for the pic Jari (now I can see the rear MXU-469 rounded fin)... but I can't understand the question of centerline flange and fill caps yet... any pic of a real BLU-27 where we can see these details? thanks.

Edited by Alpagueur
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