Finn Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Check the 5:11 mark of this video: to see a F-4 with a load of LGBs on the i/b pylons and napalm on the c/l MER. The LGBs are normally dropped from high altitude while the nape is delivered much closer to the ground. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Finn said: and napalm on the c/l MER. are those ones BLU-27? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) which bombs are these? was it possible to hang up 4 on a centerline MER? Edited October 19, 2016 by Alpagueur Quote Link to post Share on other sites
airmechaja Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Great snippet of a normal day in the office for some of us back then. I liked hearing Steppenwolf in the background! Dean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 9 hours ago, Alpagueur said: which bombs are these? was it possible to hang up 4 on a centerline MER? They look like BLU-23/32, they are both similar in size and shape. Due to the length only 3 could be carried on the c/l MER. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) 19 hours ago, Alpagueur said: which bombs are these? was it possible to hang up 4 on a centerline MER? F-4s didn't carry BLU-23/32. These are unfinned BLU-27s. The centerline MER carried one on the aft centerline and two on the front shoulder stations. Edited October 20, 2016 by mrvark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 Here are a couple more F-4 with nape pics: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, mrvark said: These are unfinned BLU-27s. The centerline MER carried one on the aft centerline and two on the front shoulder stations. finned, too? I'd like tu put 2-3 of them on the belly of the 'Casper' or the 'Brain Damage'... many thanks. Edited October 20, 2016 by Alpagueur Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Note how in the bottom photo just above (no tail code on the jet) the front and back sections of the bombs are rounded (ogive) while in the other photos they are straight (conical)? The ogive ones are the BLU-1 fire bombs while the conical ones (also with the red nose bands) are the later BLU-27s. From what I've been able to see, the BLU-1s were expended pretty early in the war and the BLU-27s were used MUCH more often. Unfortunately, most model kits (including the Hasegawa bomb kits) have the BLU-1s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Jim, these are all BLU-27s but they seem different from each other: Videoaviation 1/32: AMS resin 1/32: Aerobonus 1/48: BLU-1 seem very similar to the firs two (rounded ogive)... so which is the real form of the BLU-27? Edited October 21, 2016 by Alpagueur Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) my suspect is that ONLY the bomb on the outer wing pylon is a BLU-27... the others ones are BIGGER Edited October 21, 2016 by Alpagueur Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) perhaps I solved, the little is a BLU-23/B (diameter 15.7" weight 489 lb), the big are BLU-27/B (diameter 18.5"weight 873 lb) http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/asetds/u-b.html Edited October 21, 2016 by Alpagueur Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 Go here here: http://ordata.info/ click Name of Ordnance and type in: BLU-1/B BLU-23 BLU-32 BLU-27 or whatever else you want to look up to get more details of them. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/20/2016 at 0:40 AM, Finn said: Here are a couple more F-4 with nape pics: Jari Would the baggage pods from the Hasegawa 1/48 F-16 work to represent the napalm on the f-4's shown in the two photos above? There are also some in the Monogram 1/48 A-37 that look like napalm as well. In the photo below, the ones on the left are from the Hasegawa F-16 and on the right are from the Monogram A-37. Which ones would be the best ones to use? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/21/2016 at 6:09 PM, Alpagueur said: Jim, these are all BLU-27s but they seem different from each other: Videoaviation 1/32: AMS resin 1/32: Aerobonus 1/48: BLU-1 seem very similar to the firs two (rounded ogive)... so which is the real form of the BLU-27? First, let's do a primer on Napalm bombs. The BLU-1 was assembled in the field and bolted together. So, aside from the (more expensive to produce) ogive nose and tail sections, another sure give away that you're looking at a 750-lb BLU-1 (or 250-lb BLU-10 or 500-lb BLU-23) is a metal flange that ran along the bottom of the cylindrical section of the bomb. They were also never painted (although some of the later bombs could also be unpainted, so that alone doesn't constitute 'proof'). These bombs were most effective when they were used without fins because they would tumble, causing their contents to more widely disperse. However, if used by fast movers from higher altitudes it was necessary to install tail fins to increase their accuracy. The original BLU-1 fin was the MXU-393, which bolted together (from the rear, the section that held the fins together was a square). A big drawback to this fin was that the decision to install it had to be made as the bomb was being assembled--to remove it required disassembly of the bomb. Beginning with the BLU-1C/B, the MXU-469 was introduced; it was welded and the rear section was circular; it was also used by the BLU-27, and was attached after the bomb was assembled. The BLU-23 could be fitted with the similar MXU-467 fin. (The BLU-10s did not have a finned option.) By the way, the fill caps on all bombs were offset 20-deg from the centerline--looking from the top of the bomb, with the nose on top, the front cap was offset to the left, the rear one to the right. The old Hasegawa bomb kits have finned BLU-1s. These early bombs were quickly replaced (first showing up in service in early 1966) by the 750-lb BLU-27 and 500-lb BLU-32 (the BLU-10s were only used by COIN aircraft-- e.g., A-1s & T-28s--and weren't replaced). These bombs were welded together, thus eliminating the centerline flange and were usually filled in the factory with Napalm B. To reduced their cost, the ogive nose and tail sections were replaced with conical sections. They always had red bands painted around the nose and tail. Beginning in late 1970, with introduction of the BLU-27A/B and BLU-32A/B, the bombs were painted olive drab along with the red bands. After Vietnam, the USAF stopped using Napalm and many of the surviving BLU-27s were converted into MXU-648 travel pods. The Videoaviation bombs appear to be (from looking at the photo) BLU-1 with the with the early MXU-393 fin. It had the fill caps shown on the centerline, which is incorrect and I can't tell if it has the centerline flange or not. I do like their nose caps though. The AMS bombs are correct and have the later MXU-469 fins. The ones shown have what I think is an early nose cap that I've never seen a picture of on an operational bomb (I think Harold may have changed this on later releases of the kit). The nose caps were sometimes left off, but not usually. (I suspect the bombs on the KB-coded jet may not have been installed yet.) The Aerobonus bombs have the conical end sections of the BLU-27, but retain the centerline flange of the BLU-1. The fill caps are nice, but mounted on the centerline and the end caps are too long and rounded. As they say on the packaging, the DACO bombs are finned BLU-1s with the MXU-393 fins. Full disclosure: both the AMS and DACO bombs were produced using my drawings, which were made referencing both official drawings, records and measuring actual bombs. On 10/21/2016 at 6:19 PM, Alpagueur said: my suspect is that ONLY the bomb on the outer wing pylon is a BLU-27... the others ones are BIGGER All of the bombs loaded on the KB-coded jet are BLU-27/Bs. They'd only carry one kind of fire bomb at a time (different bombs have different ballistics) and the only kinds the F-4 carried were the 750-lb BLU-1 or -27. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 51 minutes ago, twong said: Would the baggage pods from the Hasegawa 1/48 F-16 work to represent the napalm on the f-4's shown in the two photos above? There are also some in the Monogram 1/48 A-37 that look like napalm as well. In the photo below, the ones on the left are from the Hasegawa F-16 and on the right are from the Monogram A-37. Which ones would be the best ones to use? They're both pretty awful. The Hasegawa ones are either too short or too fat (can't tell without knowing their size) and the end caps are way too pointed. The Monogram ones are better, but have conical nose and tail sections while retaining the centerline flange. Also, I'm mystified by the little bump just behind the flange. The fins are incorrect and should be mounted in an 'X', not '+' configuration. The nose fill cap is in the right location, but seems a bit too large and there is no aft fill cap. Also, without knowing how big they are, they could be 500-lb, vice 750-lb bombs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 48 minutes ago, mrvark said: They're both pretty awful. The Hasegawa ones are either too short or too fat (can't tell without knowing their size) and the end caps are way too pointed. The Monogram ones are better, but have conical nose and tail sections while retaining the centerline flange. Also, I'm mystified by the little bump just behind the flange. The fins are incorrect and should be mounted in an 'X', not '+' configuration. The nose fill cap is in the right location, but seems a bit too large and there is no aft fill cap. Also, without knowing how big they are, they could be 500-lb, vice 750-lb bombs. Thanks! The Hasegawa 1/48 pods are 2 and 7/10th inches long by 3/5th of an inch wide. The Monogram 1/48 ones are 2 and 4/5th inches long and 2/5th of an inch wide. Both widths are approximate rounded off to the higher end. I was planning on using the Hasegawa pods for an F-4D to represent the napalm canisters. I am planning on using the Monogram ones with the tips cut off for a USMC F-4B. Total 100% accuracy isn't an issue for me but I would like something close. If the Hasegawa and Monogram ones are close enough then that is fine with me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 The ones in the pic of the Monogram A-37 "nape" are the ext fuel tanks, the napalm are the ones to the left of them in this pic: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Here are some more pics, a bit small but note the a/c on the left has a ext tank on one side and a MER on the other side: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Finn said: The ones in the pic of the Monogram A-37 "nape" are the ext fuel tanks, the napalm are the ones to the left of them in this pic: Jari Thanks! The external tanks actually look better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) thanks Jim! So the MXU-469 are the unique correct fins for the BLU-27/B? http://combatace.com/topic/82525-blu-1-warning-label/ MXU-393/B fin: MXU-469/B: 5 hours ago, mrvark said: The Videoaviation bombs appear to be (from looking at the photo) BLU-1 with the with the early MXU-393 fin. It had the fill caps shown on the centerline, which is incorrect and I can't tell if it has the centerline flange or not. I do like their nose caps though. Can't undestand the question of the fill caps...they seem correctly placed by the above figure (but they are BLU-1B/B and C/B respectively) AMS and Aerobonus bombs do have the fill caps placed in the same position... so which would be the correct position for them? Edited October 23, 2016 by Alpagueur Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Here are some BLU-27s on a trailer: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the pic Jari (now I can see the rear MXU-469 rounded fin)... but I can't understand the question of centerline flange and fill caps yet... any pic of a real BLU-27 where we can see these details? thanks. Edited October 23, 2016 by Alpagueur Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just top views but you can see the filler cap offset to a bit: a little oozing out: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpagueur Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Many thanks Jari, now I can finally see that they are slightly displaced from the center line Edited October 24, 2016 by Alpagueur Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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