ChesshireCat Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 10/24/2016 at 3:34 PM, KOG7777 said: Tamiya has a pretty significant problem with the wheel wells. Both Airfix and Meng seem to have improved upon that shortcoming. Given that the Airfix is supposed to come with a load of optional extras, and will probably sell cheaper than Tamiya, I could see it possible becoming the 1/48 P-51D of choice... The Meng kit might be nice, but I suspect the price will be higher. Eduard version (if they don't cancel it in light of the competition from Airfix and Meng) will probably have great surface detail quality, and will benefit from the usual inclusions of PE, masks, and multiple decal options, but will also probably be one of the pricier 1/48 P-51Ds. As for Luftwaffe kits, there aren't enough yet. Bring 'em on. from what I hear, the Meng kit will go for about $22. I sorta figure the Eduard kit will be north of $45. All I have are from Tamiya, and I like them as long as I don't look at the wheel wells gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 10/24/2016 at 3:40 PM, john53 said: A proper Spitfire Mk XI would be nice and NO ONE does one!---John what's wrong with the Eduard kit? gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K5054NZ Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Does Eduard make a XI? I'm aware of the IX but I don't think they did the XI. Even though I just finished the ICM D, and have the Tamiya one just waiting for paint, I really need to find a subject for the Airfix kit as I'll probably need to get one. I had no idea about the Meng and Eduard releases until visiting forums after Airfix's announcement. Good times for Mustang fans. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 10/26/2016 at 9:08 PM, Don said: I believe it would be the first 'D' in 1/48 without the fillet. Right now our only option is to convert a filleted 'D' to an early non-filleted 'D' either by scratching our own or using the resin tail replacement from Ultracast. I certainly hope Airfix makes the non-filleted 'D' as it opens up a lot of possibilities. Cheers! I want to say that Hasegawa tooled an early D fuselage without the fillet, but I am not 100% positive. IF they did, I think it was only release once back in the mid-90s (box art of "Passion Wagon"). I've seen it pop up on ebay once or twice, and at least one of the listings had photos of the kit in the box that IIRC showed the fuselage halves without the fillet - but I've never been able to lay my eyes on an actual copy of that specific release to verify. Yeah, a lot of weasel words here, I know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 13 minutes ago, Joe Hegedus said: I want to say that Hasegawa tooled an early D fuselage without the fillet, but I am not 100% positive... If I remember correctly you still had to do surgery to the Hasegawa kit to remove the fillet. Its been a while since I've seen one in person though. I think this is why we haven't seen Hasegawa really marketing a non-filleted Mustang despite the interest among modelers. Regardless, 1/48 is in dire need of a mainstream modern tooled OOB non-filleted early P-51D and lets just hope Airfix comes through. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 9 hours ago, Don said: If I remember correctly you still had to do surgery to the Hasegawa kit to remove the fillet. Its been a while since I've seen one in person though. I think this is why we haven't seen Hasegawa really marketing a non-filleted Mustang despite the interest among modelers. Regardless, 1/48 is in dire need of a mainstream modern tooled OOB non-filleted early P-51D and lets just hope Airfix comes through. Cheers! Typical hasegawa fashion. Tool one variant and box it as another variant and tell you cut n paste hear and so on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I've seen that, too, but I still think I've seen a release (one boxing) that had a filletless fuselage. Perhaps it was done with special tooling that didn't last, or something. Or maybe I'm just remembering something wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Modelmkr Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Joe Hegedus said: I've seen that, too, but I still think I've seen a release (one boxing) that had a filletless fuselage. Perhaps it was done with special tooling that didn't last, or something. Or maybe I'm just remembering something wrong. Maybe a resin plug for the rear section was included in a special boxing? Hasegawa has been known to include resin conversion parts for some of their kits. Marc B. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 6 hours ago, Modelmkr said: Maybe a resin plug for the rear section was included in a special boxing? Hasegawa has been known to include resin conversion parts for some of their kits. Marc B. According to Tony Hodun's Hasegawa kit list at Modeling Madness, Hasegawa released two "early version" P-51D kits, 51558 and 52603; they don’t have any different parts but simply show the modeler where to remove the fin fillet. 09688 also includes one decal version for a P-51D with no fin fillet and provides the same instructions to remove the fillet. Several Hasegawa kits had extra resin, but they didn't include anything relating to the tail fillets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cool Hand Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 If the Airfix kit can be built without the fillet, then I'll be buying a few. Seems like all my favorite schemes are from D-5's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I'm out of the loop-what's up with the Tamiya wheel wells? Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 On 10/28/2016 at 3:57 AM, K5054NZ said: Does Eduard make a XI? I'm aware of the IX but I don't think they did the XI. Even though I just finished the ICM D, and have the Tamiya one just waiting for paint, I really need to find a subject for the Airfix kit as I'll probably need to get one. I had no idea about the Meng and Eduard releases until visiting forums after Airfix's announcement. Good times for Mustang fans. call it one too many beers! I was thinking MK.IX Spitfire. I like the Tamiya kit, but also know the wheel wells are big time wrong. Yet as much as I like the Tamiya kit, I like the old Accurate Miniatures kit just was well (yes I know some kits have issues). The real issue (so I was informed about a few days back) is that a real factory (shape) Mustang is not a common bird these days. We can thank the GAO for this. Probably the same for a Spitfire too. Personally; before seeing another Mustang, Spitfire, or 109, I'd like a really nice P63 King Cobra in Russian markings! With all the "crowing" about some Boultin Paul something that ended up being nothing but ammo test targets for a 109, why not do an air frame that made a serious impact in WWII. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Wheel wells on the P-51 were open. Tamiya's closed wheel wells are fantasy; I've read that no 1/48 kit has yet gotten this right. Resin aftermarket is available, but it's a bear to fit. A.M.U.R.Reaver has PE for the P-51D, which I'll use on my Tamiya P-51D. Airfix has the opportunity to not make this mistake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 15 hours ago, dnl42 said: Wheel wells on the P-51 were open. Tamiya's closed wheel wells are fantasy; I've read that no 1/48 kit has yet gotten this right. Resin aftermarket is available, but it's a bear to fit. A.M.U.R.Reaver has PE for the P-51D, which I'll use on my Tamiya P-51D. Airfix has the opportunity to not make this mistake. Good to know for the relatively infrequent times that I display my models upside down. Facetious comments aside, I'm more looking forward to (hopefully) better engineering of the sliding canopy, better spinner shape, and more sub-version options. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) I really hope airfix does an early version D as meng doesn't have this option. http://www.hyperscale.com/2016/reviews/kits/mengls006reviewbg_1.htm Edited November 4, 2016 by randypandy831 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
White Wolf Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Knowing Eduard, the cowl for their Mustang will come in two pieces. Why? Because they can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 9 hours ago, White Wolf said: Knowing Eduard, the cowl for their Mustang will come in two pieces. Why? Because they can. Pretty much. Don't know why they made the upper cowling two pieces on the spitfire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alleycat Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 On 10/30/2016 at 8:28 PM, dnl42 said: Wheel wells on the P-51 were open. Tamiya's closed wheel wells are fantasy; I've read that no 1/48 kit has yet gotten this right. Resin aftermarket is available, but it's a bear to fit. A.M.U.R.Reaver has PE for the P-51D, which I'll use on my Tamiya P-51D. Airfix has the opportunity to not make this mistake. OK, maybe I don’t understand this post, and please hold the flames as I express my opinion. The 1/48 Tamiya has always been well regarded, but I don't get the issue with the wheel wells. I am looking at the wells on my completed Tamiya kit and they look very much like the photos of the real thing in the Detail & Scale and In Action books. They are “boxed-in” and following the outline of the well opening in the lower wing like the real thing. They have decent representations of the ribbing and supporting structures. They do need some hoses and pipes added if you are a super-detailer. But they look very convincing after a good paint job and a nice wash. To call them fantasy seems a little harsh to me, so what am I missing? If you are willing to endure the frustration, resin wells will improve most kits, and there are a lot of kits I would feel the need to put resin wells in. This kit is not one of them. If you are looking for a good P-51D don’t let the (undeserved?) reputation of the wheel wells put you off the Tamiya kit. Overall it is one of the best engineered and least painful kits I have ever built. I highly recommend it. It does need a resin cockpit, and I added resin wheels and an Ultracast prop, but that was being picky. The crisp, sharp panel lines are about as good as they come (after you sand off those weird rivets on the wings). The outline is very accurate and I also love the implementation of the dropped flaps. The “wow” factor of the completed kit is undeniable. Is it possible that one of the new kits will have more accurate wheel wells? Maybe. Will they have as good overall detail? Yikes, I don’t know. But this is why Tamiya is among the best. So, ask yourself which you would rather have; more accurate wheel wells, or a beautifully detailed and accurate top side which you can actually see sitting on the shelf. Having said this I will probably get one of the new ones if it is decent and has an option for no tail fillet. I have always been a sucker for LOU IV. Plus, you can never have too many Mustangs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 5 hours ago, Alleycat said: I am looking at the wells on my completed Tamiya kit and they look very much like the photos of the real thing in the Detail & Scale and In Action books. They are “boxed-in” and following the outline of the well opening in the lower wing like the real thing. That's exactly the problem - except for the 1/72 Airfix and the 1/32 Tamiya Mustangs, every kit available has the rear wall of the main gear wells follow the door opening, whereas on the real airplane, the rear wall of the main wells follows the wing main spar. The area to the rear of the strut door opening should be hollow back to the wing spar (meaning hollow back as far as the aft wall of the wheel part of the well). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Joe Hegedus said: That's exactly the problem - except for the 1/72 Airfix and the 1/32 Tamiya Mustangs, every kit available has the rear wall of the main gear wells follow the door opening, whereas on the real airplane, the rear wall of the main wells follows the wing main spar. The area to the rear of the strut door opening should be hollow back to the wing spar (meaning hollow back as far as the aft wall of the wheel part of the well). That's certainly one of the better (and easiest to understand) descriptions I've seen of the issue. Good job, Joe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alleycat Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 6 hours ago, Joe Hegedus said: That's exactly the problem - except for the 1/72 Airfix and the 1/32 Tamiya Mustangs, every kit available has the rear wall of the main gear wells follow the door opening, whereas on the real airplane, the rear wall of the main wells follows the wing main spar. The area to the rear of the strut door opening should be hollow back to the wing spar (meaning hollow back as far as the aft wall of the wheel part of the well). Joe, thanks for the nice description of the issue. I finaly found a photo in the Squadron Walk Around book that shows this area fairly clearly. I would say that you are correct, on the kit the rear enclosing walls of the main gear wells follow the gear well openings instead of the main wing spars (the walls appears to actually be the spars) as they should. Put another way, they should be perpendicular to the fuselage. So at the inboard part of the strut section of each well things are about right (give or take). But as you go outboard the space between the enclosing wall (wing spar) and well opening should widen untill it is about maybe 3/32" (SWAG- I did not measure) deep on the kit. So the enclosing wall is there, just at the wrong angle thereby omitting the hollow or open area that should become more open as you go outboard. So the result: can anyone recommend a resin replacement wheel well set for the 1/48 Tamiya P-51D that actually fits (dang Aires!!!) for those of us with chronic AMS that still have Tamiya Mustangs in the stash?? I do have to say that my BIg Beautiful Doll has been sitting on the shelf in my china hutch display case since 2005 and this is the first time I have picked it up to look under it, so this issue does not bother me much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Modelmkr Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Alleycat said: I do have to say that my BIg Beautiful Doll has been sitting on the shelf in my china hutch display case since 2005 and this is the first time I have picked it up to look under it, so this issue does not bother me much. To be honest it didn't really bother most people, I think; at least not enough to prevent many people from building a great number of these kits. The discussion now is that a new, modern tooling has every opportunity to rectify this shortcoming and it would cause an audible gnashing of teeth amongst modellers if this opportunity was ignored. Marc B. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I know that, even knowing about the error in most kits, it never bothered me enough to worry about. At least not enough to stop me from building a plethora of Mustangs in various scales, from various manufacturers over the years. Once I finish a kit, it sits on my shelves. The underside is not generally visible, so I don't worry too much about perfectly accurate wheel wells. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Modelmkr Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) Jeez, we can't have that Joe. Okay everyone send Joe a small mirrored base so he can set all his Mustangs on and worry incessantly about the now fully visible wheel wells. 😜 Marc B. Edited November 17, 2016 by Modelmkr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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