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flybywire

MiG-21

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If not, then it's not totally hard to do....the Vietnamese insignia are easy enough, just need to get the numbers. Can't remember where I got the numbers for mine, probably a generic Vietnamese MiG sheet where I was able to cobble together the correct numbers for a MiG that had that particular paint applied:

 

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal6/5801-5900/gal5833-MiG-21-Desautels/00.shtm

 

 

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Not aware of any decal, but it would not be that hard to do it with some homemade masks.

Please note that the art work on the box top and the poster that goes with it is wrong. All my deepest admiration to the artist but in this case he got it wrong (or was given the wrong information). Looking at original photos of this particular aircraft it is clearly visible that the patches were randomly applied and there was never a sharp division straight down the centre line of the fuselage side! They came as they came.

Sorry Siegeo Koike!

 

Best regards

Gabor

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2 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Not aware of any decal, but it would not be that hard to do it with some homemade masks.

 

Please note that the art work on the box top and the poster that goes with it is wrong. All my deepest admiration to the artist but in this case he got it wrong (or was given the wrong information). Looking at original photos of this particular aircraft it is clearly visible that the patches were randomly applied and there was never a sharp division straight down the centre line of the fuselage side! They came as they came.

 

Sorry Siegeo Koike!

 

 

 

Best regards

 

Gabor

Not to pile on this poor guy but I highly doubt that you ever saw an A-4 with such a massive load of bombs as the one he depicted in that painting.  with regard to that painting, Eduard's own's paint guide in that kit confirms what Gabor mentions above.  Still a beautiful painting but.....

 

 

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Nothing to add to the OP's Mig question. But in regards the A-4, they did carry some pretty huge loads in Vietnam, especially land based Skyhawk units.

 

An A-4 getting ready to depart Da Nang looking pretty loaded down (both photos credited in the links):

 

Douglas-A-4-Danang.jpg

 

Here's another A-4 leaving Da Nang and definitely loaded for bear:

 

Douglas-A-4-airborne-with-bombs-Danang-S

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8 minutes ago, Don said:

Nothing to add to the OP's Mig question. But in regards the A-4, they did carry some pretty huge loads in Vietnam, especially land based Skyhawk units.

 

An A-4 getting ready to depart Da Nang looking pretty loaded down (both photos credited in the links):

 

Douglas-A-4-Danang.jpg

 

Here's another A-4 leaving Da Nang and definitely loaded for bear:

 

 

Still not as heavily loaded as the one in the painting but impressive nonetheless.  Look how compressed the nose gear is from all that weight.  Range in that configuration must have been approx 50 miles!

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2 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Still not as heavily loaded as the one in the painting but impressive nonetheless.  Look how compressed the nose gear is from all that weight.  Range in that configuration must have been approx 50 miles!

Yeah I think that's why we see mainly Marine A-4's bombed up more heavily then Navy birds as they didn't have to haul their iron near as far nor launch from a carrier like their Navy brethren. Still, for such a small and relatively cheap and simple AC its amazing what she could carry.

 

Cheers!

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Hmmm....folks, he was asking about the MiG-21 box art, not the A-4. Seems if you click his link you see the MiG for a moment, then it goes to A-4 pics and instructions....but if you stay and look at the tiny icons at the top of that screen and click the two on the left, you see the MiG he was talking about. Not the A-4. :) 

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10 hours ago, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said:

If not, then it's not totally hard to do....the Vietnamese insignia are easy enough, just need to get the numbers. Can't remember where I got the numbers for mine, probably a generic Vietnamese MiG sheet where I was able to cobble together the correct numbers for a MiG that had that particular paint applied:

 

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal6/5801-5900/gal5833-MiG-21-Desautels/00.shtm

 

 

Thanks Andrew for your response! I'm not at the"supremo" level yet to be able to do all those intricate not to mention the 'right" patterns; so I guess I'll just skip this scheme and find some other kits to build.  

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5 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Not aware of any decal, but it would not be that hard to do it with some homemade masks.

 

Please note that the art work on the box top and the poster that goes with it is wrong. All my deepest admiration to the artist but in this case he got it wrong (or was given the wrong information). Looking at original photos of this particular aircraft it is clearly visible that the patches were randomly applied and there was never a sharp division straight down the centre line of the fuselage side! They came as they came.

 

Sorry Siegeo Koike!

 

 

 

Best regards

 

Gabor

Okay. Thanks Gabor for your response!

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1 hour ago, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said:

Hmmm....folks, he was asking about the MiG-21 box art, not the A-4. Seems if you click his link you see the MiG for a moment, then it goes to A-4 pics and instructions....but if you stay and look at the tiny icons at the top of that screen and click the two on the left, you see the MiG he was talking about. Not the A-4. :) 

 

Seriously Andrew?  In case you haven't noticed, traffic on ARC is significantly down.  Many days there are only 5-6 posts in a particular forum.  So that being said - you take the time to play moderator and chastise a couple of folks  because they went OT and dared to talk about another jet in a thread on the Jet Forum?

 

Personally, I find stuff like this interesting, which is why I commented on the A-4. Apparently someone else did as well.  Sorry you found it to be out of bounds.    

 

 

 

Edited by 11bee

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33 minutes ago, flybywire said:

Thanks Andrew for your response! I'm not at the"supremo" level yet to be able to do all those intricate not to mention the 'right" patterns; so I guess I'll just skip this scheme and find some other kits to build.  

FBW, you could even do the mottling with a brush, which might well be more in scale than airbrushing them anyway. Just a thought.

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31 minutes ago, 11bee said:

 

Seriously Andrew?  In case you haven't noticed, traffic on ARC is significantly down.  Many days there are only 5-6 posts in a particular forum.  So that being said - you take the time to play moderator and chastise a couple of folks  because they went OT and dared to talk about another jet in a thread on the Jet Forum?

 

Personally, I find stuff like this interesting, which is why I commented on the A-4. Apparently someone else did as well.  Sorry you found it to be out of bounds.    

 

 

 

Chastise? Really? Looks to me more as if Andrew was trying to be helpful to folks who hadn't gotten to the MiG photo in question. How about a new thread where we can all share pics of A-4s with ridiculous loads? Could be helpful for anyone building one.

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An ARC topic that strays a little from the original theme...albeit in this instance ever so slightly considering the box art in question? Imagine! Its all gone downhill. Must be because of the month long downtime...

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, 11bee said:

 

Seriously Andrew?  In case you haven't noticed, traffic on ARC is significantly down.  Many days there are only 5-6 posts in a particular forum.  So that being said - you take the time to play moderator and chastise a couple of folks  because they went OT and dared to talk about another jet in a thread on the Jet Forum?

 

Personally, I find stuff like this interesting, which is why I commented on the A-4. Apparently someone else did as well.  Sorry you found it to be out of bounds.    

 

 

 

 

Wasn't trying to be a moderator, thought for a moment that maybe people were misunderstanding which photo he meant and answering for the wrong one.

 

That's all. No chastisement. 

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WWWOOOWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!    A storm in a tea cup!

-  The original question by FLYBYWIRE  was answered. There is no decal to make this mottled pattern.

-  Attention was drawn to the fact that the box top artwork should not be followed down to the fine detail if one is to make an authentic representation of this kit.

-  New thoughts were generated from other contributors concerning the A-4 and examples shown. Topics are there to generate ideas, comments, thoughts, sharing information, knowledge . . .

-  Since the A-4 is also part of this double kit and part of the artwork in my opinion there is absolutely no problem with speaking about the A-4 too. (We did not start talking about a 144 scale Ju-88 here, did we? That would have been an off topic! )

 

-  In connection with this kit one could also advise the would be builder that there are several problems with the instruction sheet and the advice given by Eduard in it is wrong in several ways. This would also be within the boundaries of this topic and help the builder to produce an authentic kit.

-  

Unfortunately (due to copyright) I was not able to bring here photos of this particular Vietnamese MiG-21 to show my point of view. But everyone can find them in books about the Vietnam war or on the internet. I can only envy those who can bring forward such period colour photos (talking about the A-4's) to illustrate their point of view!

 

Best regards

Gabor

P.s.

*  If someone wants to make a topic about the Skyhawk, please feel free. If you are logged in you have every right to do so!

*  Have to add that the artwork is fantastic as always by  Siegeo Koike !!!!  Well, yes it is historically not correct in several respects but this is ARTWORK and not a photograph! It is a superb artwork by one of the greatest artists in our hobby!!!

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On 10/23/2016 at 11:37 AM, flybywire said:

Thanks Andrew for your response! I'm not at the"supremo" level yet to be able to do all those intricate not to mention the 'right" patterns; so I guess I'll just skip this scheme and find some other kits to build.  

 

Flybywire,

 

You will never get to the "supremo" level, or advance your skills much at all, if you do not challenge yourself with projects like the mottling on this MiG-21.  I understand that you don't want to risk screwing up the Eduard kit but there are alternatives.  You probably have a kit or two that didn't go well and never got completed - practice mottling on that.  If you don't have such an unfinished model around that you are willing to sacrifice for this, go out and get one that you would be.  Seriously!  I bet there are few on this forum who don't have a practice model they try new materials or techniques on.  For years I had a 50 cent Hawk F4F (actually it was a reasonably accurate FM-2, but they called it an F4F) that was my paint mule and it had been about every color you can imagine on it at some point, plus having been completely covered with Bare Metal Foil at another.  This is how you learn to do things you've never done: you do them.  It is the only way.  And Revell recently re-released their 48th MiG-21PF which can be had on eBay for less than $20.00 shipped:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Revell-1-48-MiG-21PF-855482-/391151270487?hash=item5b126eba57:g:dX0AAOSwBLlVXjX7

It is no where near the quality of the Eduard kit, but the basic shape is not bad and it would be a perfect platform to try mottling on and give you a practice model for future projects..

 

As to the mottling, how do you paint your models?  If you have an airbrush - any airbrush - it is, as others in the thread have said, not at all hard to do.  Use your finest tip/needle thin the paint as you usually would and shoot short bursts perpendicular to the model surface at a fairly low pressure. If you don't have a compressor or a regulator, most airbrushes have a means of restricting the air trigger which will give you a lower pressure. Try the first burst at about an inch (25mm, if you are in a rational part of the world) and see what happens.  If it goes on too liquid and runs, move out a bit (or put a bit more paint into your mix).  If it spatters - goes on like individual droplets, move a bit closer (or add a bit more thinner to your mix).  Just keep trying and playing with distance, mix and pressure until you get what looks right to you.  You can even try this on some paper or cardboard before trying out on your "mule".  But keep trying it.  If you are getting too much overspray, cut some irregular holes a bit smaller than the mottles you want on the model in an index card (an indispensable modelling tool in my book) and hold that an inch or so from the model and shoot through that.  You can even use that technique - holes in index cards - if you are using spray cans.  Again, the trick is to practice, whether it is on your "mule" or  a piece of paper (or another index card) until you get the effect that you want.  If you are a brush painter, you can still do it effectively by dry-brushing with a #4 or 5 round brush ( and it was often the case, especially in WW II,  that mottles were field applied with brushes and even brooms).  But however you do your painting, try it, and can come back here, or in In Progress and show us your results and you will get all the help and advice you will need to master it.  But you have to do it to learn how to do it.  There is no other way.  Period.

 

Cheers, and good luck with it

Tom

 

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