Where oh where is our Hornet replacement?

[Don]

Shelving one weapons system wouldn't cover the cost for very long at all and eventually everyone would be taxed to pay for it, including those who chose not to have children and those whose children are grown up and gone. As far as stay at home parents goes, I know many. My wife and I did it. It comes with many sacrifices but it was one we (...and many others) were/are willing to make. To each their own.

 

Back on topic, great link TT. Very informative. I agree that the Canadian media has done a fantastic job parroting the PM's mantra and very much maligned the F-35 to the Canadian people. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds as he (the PM) has painted himself into a corner with the F-35 to the point that he would have to eat some major crow if he selects it. He's not known for losing face so where this all leads will be interesting. Then again if he waits long enough for the SH to go out of production it would be a little easier to go with the F-35.

Cheers!

 

[SBARC]

2 hours ago, 11bee said:

File under "Let them eat cake" perhaps?  I'm not Canadian but from my perspective, universal child care would be a blessing.  I'd have no problem with the US (which is the most heavily militarized country on the planet) shelving a major weapons system in order to provide this to it's citizens.   Pretty sure we could pull it off and still not have ISIS/Chinese/Russian hordes marching down Main St USA.  

 

I'm paying close to a mortgage payment each month for my 4 year old daughter's day care.  As much as both my wife and I would love to work half days to be with her, our employers would frown on that just a bit.  Both of us are professionals and are pretty well compensated but we don't have the luxury of simply having one of us quit our job for 6 years to be a full time parent.  Come to think about it, I don't know a single family that has a stay-at home parent, even on a half-time basis.  Everyone works.

 

The Canadian child care idea that the childcare promoters are pushing is that it will cost parents $10 a day for childcare with the rest being picked up by taxpayers.  It's a sweet deal if you have kids under 5 but for us....our kids are in University.  I worked nights and stayed home in the daytime and did the kid thing....and to let them meet other kids we went to the local park.  We had 2 kids so there really wasn't a big need for other kids to play with although at the time all my friends had kids and a stay at home parent.  Of course all these families were living at a lower economic level to stay home with their kids.  I know one friend that worked full time and earned next to nothing once her childcare bill was paid.....that to me is baffling.

[TaiidanTomcat]

2 hours ago, SBARC said:

 

 

2 hours ago, SBARC said:

 

The Canadian child care idea that the childcare promoters are pushing is that it will cost parents $10 a day for childcare with the rest being picked up by taxpayers.  It's a sweet deal if you have kids under 5 but for us....our kids are in University.  I worked nights and stayed home in the daytime and did the kid thing....and to let them meet other kids we went to the local park.  We had 2 kids so there really wasn't a big need for other kids to play with although at the time all my friends had kids and a stay at home parent.  Of course all these families were living at a lower economic level to stay home with their kids.  I know one friend that worked full time and earned next to nothing once her childcare bill was paid.....that to me is baffling.

 

Wait until the cost to the Taxpayer skyrockets. If your going to have "government sponsored" child care, you might as well cut out the middle man and just start public school pre-K. Just make it official. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat

[TaiidanTomcat]

5 hours ago, 11bee said:

File under "Let them eat cake" perhaps?  I'm not Canadian but from my perspective, universal child care would be a blessing.  I'd have no problem with the US (which is the most heavily militarized country on the planet) shelving a major weapons system in order to provide this to it's citizens.   Pretty sure we could pull it off and still not have ISIS/Chinese/Russian hordes marching down Main St USA.  

    

 

 

 

See my Sig line, its written by a Canadian. 

[Gordon Shumway]

As to government, cough, cough taxpayer subsidized day care.

 

As my sig. line states.

 

Socialism, where everyone has an equal right to be equally miserable.

 

Let me add another one.

 

Socialism, doing less with more everyday.

 

Take care of raising your own kids please, you chose to have em.  You will just have to learn to live without as many toys, froo froo and frills  that you had as singles and as  couples without children. The rest of us  pay enough money  for  too much  socialistic  cr*p  and too much government waste. Another bureaucratic layer of  subsidized day care is just too much.

 

As to our next combat jets, WHO THE HELL KNOWS!?! But once  PM Sunny ways gets permission from  his wife Sophie and then is done with the 3rd wave feminization of all of Canada  and  having all males cucked. It's going to be Super Hornet or F-35,  flown always unarmed by only by 3rd wave Feminist,  Lesbians.  His wife Sophie will be trained to be  Canada's top commanding pilot  while  he self flogs himself in the newly renovated PM's home's new dungeon where Sophie Dommes him at night  for being   privileged white male.

 

 The next great economic  collapse followed by great war  maybe can't come  soon enough!  Sorry for my hard core rant but I'm just sick of it, sick of socialists dressed as liberals, SJW's, 3rd wave feminists, University professors  who are still  living the hippies ideal generation or kids of these hippies pushing this SJW cr*p on us, the lame brained and cucked politicians and   so and so on.    

 

We so need the great men and leaders of our 'western world' past, men like Churchill, Truman, Reagan, Patton,  Eisenhower,  Montgomery,  Paul Tibbets,  Chuck Yeager,  Douglas Bader, General Rick Hillier, Commander J.D. Prentice,  George Beurling, plus many of the  notable Industry leaders of this great post WWII past which was  the greatest 50 odd year era in human history, the Western Developed World post WWII to about 1995.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Gordon Shumway

[Gordon Shumway]

To sort of paraphrase President Reagan, All that is the experiment called the United States of America, its values, liberties, free market system etc. is but ONE generation away  from being lost. 

 

With that the rest of the  western developed world will go with it.

 

I feel we are very close today to losing it and if the grand US experiment fails (BTW as flawed as it has and is, it is still better than all other social/political/economic systems tried and practiced), it may never come back to humanity again.

 

Life has been too easy for most, too blazeh, to  much pizza, beer and  chips, to much celebrity gossip, and too thin of  protecting western values as based much on US ideology. The enemies of this grand experiment have been working at undermining it all, using groups as I said above, liberals, socialists, university professors, SJW's, BLM, 3rd wave feminists etc. as their stooges  to tear it all down.

 

Now more than maybe ever we have to see it and resist this attack. If the grand experiment of USA goes we all in the western developed world go with it.

 

The USA was the first, notable nation formed from revolution that  just did not replace one kingdom with another, one theocracy  with another, one dictatorship with another.

 

 Sorry again for my rant, I turn the discussion back to   jets Canada should be buying.

 

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

I guess the thing that strikes me as a yank, is just that there is always some  new world to conquer. Canada famously has universal health care and high taxes. child care is indeed expensive. I get that. I'm a parent. But what "too expensive" thing is to be subsidised next? cars? Groceries? maybe ironically taxes? You know, for when taxes become too expensive? 

 

And what makes the cuT as "too expensive" and needs government relief vs something that is "fine"??

 

IF Canada doesn't get the CF-18 replacement and other military priorities straight, they are default outsourcing to the US. whos citizens just like 11bee says will wonder why they don't get the same perks and makes the US look disproportionately militaristic

 

Canada used to be a world grade military, there's always a new social lollipop to dangle though, and only so much money to go around

Edited November 4, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat

[bikerider]

I'm reading all the latest posts since my last one wondering how a question regarding the status of the replacement program for the RCAF-CF-18s has turned into a ranting board for a couple of people to spout off on their views socialism and parenting, tinted with a hint of misogyny.  Disappointing to say the least.

 

[Emvar]

1 hour ago, bikerider said:

I'm reading all the latest posts since my last one wondering how a question regarding the status of the replacement program for the RCAF-CF-18s has turned into a ranting board for a couple of people to spout off on their views socialism and parenting, tinted with a hint of misogyny.  Disappointing to say the least.

 

+1, like I said I think the F-35A will more than likely carry Canadian colours.

 

Realistically the Socialists.....Orange party actually said they would purchase the F-35A had they been voted in. 

 

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

Everyday they delay the F-35 gets stronger and the Super Hornet gets more expensive.

 

There are more F-35s than F-22s and Rafales. the USAF took delivery of its 100th F-35 in August. 

 

Is Canada really prepared to drop out of this program? of course not. they've just painted themselves into a political corner temporarily. which is again why they haven't pulled the trigger on anything in a year

Edited November 4, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat

[MacStingy]

1 hour ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

Everyday they delay the F-35 gets stronger and the Super Hornet gets more expensive.

 

There are more F-35s than F-22s and Rafales. the USAF took delivery of its 100th F-35 in August. 

 

Is Canada really prepared to drop out of this program? of course not. they've just painted themselves into a political corner temporarily. which is again why they haven't pulled the trigger on anything in a year

It's so frustrating that all of these aircraft are being delivered while we don't seem to be able to decide on our measly number. Thanks for the link TT. Very insightful. I'll be forwarding it to several people that I know that seem to be overly influenced by the press.

BTW I stayed home with kids and drove 15 year old cars. They're off to University and I'm driving 15 year old cars. Lifestyle choices.

Cheers

Paul

[Emvar]

3 hours ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

Everyday they delay the F-35 gets stronger and the Super Hornet gets more expensive.

 

There are more F-35s than F-22s and Rafales. the USAF took delivery of its 100th F-35 in August. 

 

Is Canada really prepared to drop out of this program? of course not. they've just painted themselves into a political corner temporarily. which is again why they haven't pulled the trigger on anything in a year

I agree.....all payments have been made to stay in the program..... a program that was joined by our red conservatives predecessor JC. So there is political wiggle room to purchase. Definitely not dead in the water.

[Gordon Shumway]

4 hours ago, TaiidanTomcat said:

Everyday they delay the F-35 gets stronger and the Super Hornet gets more expensive.

 

There are more F-35s than F-22s and Rafales. the USAF took delivery of its 100th F-35 in August. 

 

Is Canada really prepared to drop out of this program? of course not. they've just painted themselves into a political corner temporarily. which is again why they haven't pulled the trigger on anything in a year

 

Well our PM has  experience as a substitute drama teacher and a part time ski instructor, so he must know better than   us plebs. After all

"It's the current year."

 

He will as the feminist  (cuck) he is, just  ask Sophie to make the final choice  much like she probably does when picking out a   dress or shoes. Not to worry  his reward as such will be to go into her purse and pick out his ...

[TaiidanTomcat]

 

 

I'm glad I could share the link. Your thread was timely since I meant to share it, but ARC was down. Glad you reminded me!

 

2 minutes ago, Emvar said:

I agree.....all payments have been made to stay in the program..... a program that was joined by our red conservatives predecessor JC. So there is political wiggle room to purchase. Definitely not dead in the water.

 

 

If Canada waits long enough it will be F-35 by default anyway... Which is fine for me, but the more indecisive Canada is, the less it can get from the lucrative contracts. If you are building parts for the F-35 In Canada its really hard to invest in people and machining, if the government keeps dithering, and in the meantime there are plenty of other countries that are buying the F-35 and will gladly take additional work share. One of my friends in Australia is a JSF Subcontractor and the day JT came to power his company started setting specifics about 4 contracts they were going to gun for in Canada if JT pulled out. 

 

Things are changing rapidly. The F-35 gets dinged a lot but the bottom line is it was designed to fight in the 21st century. It embodies the future of airpower in the west. I think people get that backwards. People think "oh its an F-16-- but wait it sucks so we will compensate with sensors!!"  and that is not the case. F-35, like the F-22 is sensor/data driven, that was always the plan with the F-35. 

 

 

Quote

 

Though its stealthiness gets the headlines, the Raptor’s sensors and datalinks changed how the U.S. Air Force approaches air combat.

 

Brig. Gen. Alexus Grynkewich, who flew F-16s before switching to the F-22, says that loose formations of 4th-generation aircraft sweeping the sky have given way to single 5th-gen aircraft seemingly alone yet connected to others far away.

 

“What we found was we’re often detached from each other, and we would have a bubble of air superiority around our individual aircraft,” said Grynkewich, who led a team that recently wrapped up an Air Force air-superiority road map. “In our single aircraft, we could control the airspace by working with others who were at different ranges away from us.”

 

“It wasn’t so much a linear battlefield anymore, but much more of a dynamic battlefield, even in the context of just that one battle in a half-hour or hour timeframe,” he said in a recent Pentagon interview. “So I think that was a little bit of a sea change in our thinking.”

 

Things are changing in big ways. Its about doing the new way, not trying to perfect the old way. 

 

 

Quote

 

 

[Scooby]

On 2016-11-02 at 9:41 PM, SBARC said:

 

In BC the drinking / driving laws are quite strict and pot falls under the same laws....driving impaired.

 

I have to agree, BC does have the best impaired laws in the country. I wish others provinces would follow.

[MacStingy]

51 minutes ago, Scooby said:

 

I have to agree, BC does have the best impaired laws in the country. I wish others provinces would follow.

We're trying Scoob. Things are a lot slower to happen here, unless the govt. sees money in it.

[SBARC]

7 hours ago, Scooby said:

 

I have to agree, BC does have the best impaired laws in the country. I wish others provinces would follow.

 

Yup...it is very tight here for drinking and driving.  I won't even consider drinking and driving...not that I'm much of a drinker anyways.

[phantom]

The LAWS are there. Ontario just does not have room for the criminals. Those in for murder need to be looked up more then impaired. In fact the amount of impaired unless they caused injury or death that I have seen over the years is very very low. Crap we are not even permitted to put an inmate in seg for more then 2 weeks now. Even if they seriously assault an officer.

 

Back to the topic. Elmo is correct that JC got us into the CF-35 over a decade ago. SH had a less then cost effective deal which was over turned.  Perfect hair does not know what a airplane is used for. Apart from selfies and self promotion of course.

[Don]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

...Perfect hair does not know what a airplane is used for. Apart from selfies and self promotion of course.

Imagine the photo-ops that he will have once/when/if he decides on a new AC replacement!! Think "Mavericks" thumbs up picture from Top Gun on steroids! And of course he will talk and act like he designed, tested, and flew the airplane (and if its the F-35 he of course will have fixed all of its design flaws...) and the media and sheeple will drool over it! Heck, if he replaces the RCAF Maple Leaf with cannabis leaves...BOOM...instant re-election!

[MacStingy]

2 hours ago, Don said:

Imagine the photo-ops that he will have once/when/if he decides on a new AC replacement!! Think "Mavericks" thumbs up picture from Top Gun on steroids! And of course he will talk and act like he designed, tested, and flew the airplane (and if its the F-35 he of course will have fixed all of its design flaws...) and the media and sheeple will drool over it! Heck, if he replaces the RCAF Maple Leaf with cannabis leaves...BOOM...instant re-election!

 

Hmmmm....When Weed the dauntless hero came, and planted firm..........sing along.

[RedCrown]

We'll have to go with Superhornets so Sunny can get a ride in the back seat.

[TaiidanTomcat]

On 11/5/2016 at 1:35 PM, RedCrown said:

We'll have to go with Superhornets so Sunny can get a ride in the back seat.

 

you might be shocked how much that helps a sale.

 

Quote

 

Industry sources expect the Liberal government to decide as early as Tuesday whether to purchase a new fighter jet without a competition.

Federal cabinet ministers are reportedly considering three options for replacing Canada's CF-18s, one of which they are expected to pick during their weekly closed-door meeting on Parliament Hill.

The options include holding a competition, buying a new warplane without a competition, or purchasing an "interim" aircraft as a stop-gap measure until a future competition.

The government was eyeing the third option in the spring, with the intention of buying Boeing Super Hornets, until an outcry from industry and the opposition forced them back to the drawing board.

But while Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan held consultations with different industry players in the summer, industry sources say the interim option is back as the preferred choice.

Sajjan's office refused to comment on Monday, with a spokeswoman saying only that a decision still has not been made.

In the House of Commons, Conservative defence critic James Bezan called for an open competition to replace Canada's CF-18s.

Purchasing Super Hornets without a competition would "be foolishly putting billions of taxpayer money at risk," he said.

Sajjan would only say that the government had done "a considerable amount of work" on the file.

"We will make a decision on replacing the fighters and will pick a process that will meet the needs of Canada."

Anything short of an open competition, which the Liberals promised during last year's election, is sure to stoke anger from industry players as well as the opposition.

Excluding the F35

Part of the problem for the Liberals is that while they promised an open competition, they also promised not to buy the F-35 stealth fighter.

But the government has been struggling with how to fulfil that promise for fear any attempt to exclude the stealth fighter from a competition would result in a multibillion-dollar lawsuit.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau nonetheless made his views of the F-35 known in June, when he panned the stealth fighter as a plane that "does not work and is far from working."

Recent memos and reports within the U.S. military appear to back up that assessment, with the Pentagon's top weapons tester warned last month that the aircraft was being rushed too fast through testing.

Stopping the gap

There is precedent for buying Super Hornets on an interim basis. Australia paid $2.5 billion for 24 of the aircraft to replace antiquated F-111 jets until newer F-35s were ready.

However, the idea of Canada needing to follow suit was largely dismissed by a government-appointed expert panel and the military's research branch as too expensive, since the air force would be operating two types of aircraft, demanding different training, infrastructure and supporting equipment.

Rival companies have argued that purchasing Super Hornets on an "interim" basis would stack the deck in its favour in any future competition.

There are also concerns that Canada would fall behind the rest of its allies — as well as potential foes Russia and China — by purchasing the older Super Hornet rather than the state-of-the-art F-35.

The Liberals have emphasized the need for speed since Sajjan warned in the spring that Canada did not have enough CF-18s to meet its commitments to NATO and North American defence.

Critics, however, accused the Liberals of manufacturing a crisis to justify buying a new fighter jet other than the F-35 stealth fighter without a competition.

 

 

 

but then things got REALLY interesting:

 

 

Quote

 

The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) has notified Congress of a potential foreign military sale of F-15QA aircraft to Qatar for $21.1bn and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet to Kuwait for $10.1bn.

Under the sale, the Government of Qatar seeks to receive 72 F-15QA multi-role fighter aircraft and associated weapons package, while Kuwait has requested for 32 F/A-18Es, with F414-GE-400 engines; in addition to eight F/A-18Fs with F414-GE-400 engines.

Qatar also requested for continental US-based lead-in-fighter-training for the F-15QA, associated ground support, training materials, mission-critical resources and maintenance support equipment

In addition, the county asked for procurement for various weapon support and test equipment spares, technical publications, personnel training, as well as simulators and other training equipment.

It will also receive US Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistical and programme support.

Kuwait also requested for ARC-210 radio (aircraft), identification friend or foe (IFF) systems, as well as aircraft spares, aircraft armament equipment (AAE), and other related systems.The sale to Kuwait includes 41 AN/APG-79 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars; 44 M61A2 20mm gun systems; 45 AN/ALR-67(V)3 radar warning receivers; 240 LAU-127E/A guided missile launchers, and 45 AN/ALE-47 airborne countermeasures dispenser systems.

The procurement will improve both countries' capability to meet current and future enemy air-to-air and air-to-ground threats.

Boeing will serve as prime contractor for the sale to Qatar, and Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and General Electric are the prime contractors for the sale to Kuwait.

 

 

More details of the Kuwait sale are sure to emerge, we don't know exactly what else 10.1 billion for 40 Super Hornets gets, but consider the fact that all Canadian studies on the F-35 including the KPMG report put 65 F-35s for Canada at under 9 billion dollars total and 88 million per aircraft flyaway. Canadians are in for a rude shock when they see how expensive those "55 million" dollar "interim" Super hornets are. 

 

[MacStingy]

Thanks for that update TT. Very interesting morning read.

Sonny ways

Paul

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fighter-jet-purchase-announcement-1.3862210

 

Nice competition there, JT and co.

 

Waste of money. 

[chuck540z3]

18 Super Hornets!  Great, now we don't have to worry about fighter jets anymore.  Since we pulled our Legacy Hornets out of the fight against ISIS, 18 new ones should be plenty for years to come.