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sweier

Airfix New 1/72 Phantom FG.1 for 2017

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Are you talking about the panel lines?

I never realized that the Recce Phantoms have a different vertical stabilizer until I just checked the Airdoc drawings.

 

Learn something new every day!

 

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They aren't just panel lines. There are different ribs behind those, and equipment in the resulting boxed in area.

 

I thought all Phantom builders knew about that, and have been filling and rescribing for the version they are building. (just like building a 1/72 Phantom "OOB" but having to putty in whichever IFR they don't need)

 

The fuselage doors on the rear are different between FG 1 and FGR 2, also. I don't expect a completely new rear fuselage for each version, though. Puttying and scribing back there is a normal part of Phantom building already. I just hope that a new tooled kit will get all these things right for the version stated in the initial release. Then, as always, WE make the changes if they later release an FGR 2.

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If you are referring to the "extra air doors" on the upper rear fuselage... no they both had them because of the Speys....

 

It's also very likely that Airfix were allowed to LIDAR the "FG .1" at Yeovilton, so it ought to be accurate...

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I quit,,,,,,,we'll get what we get.

 

I really did mean the actual vertical tails,,,,,and really did mean the fuselage doors behind the air doors. And really do see Sgt Fletcher tanks with lower ribs on both sides, instead of only one side as they should have.

 

I will buy one, no matter what it turns out to look like. Even if it is only to have "one of each Phantom tooling made" in 1/72, just like the Matchbox that I have. My buying more than one will depend on whether it is actually molded as an FG 1,,,,,or a mish-mash of FG 1 and FGR 2 parts. (which is what that CAD is)

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I never knew about the differences between the vertical stabs on FG1 and the FGR2, can you show exactly what you mean Rex? Also, I can't see any reason why the auxiliary intake doors on the rear fuselage would be different, in fact looking at photo's in Ian Black's and Patrick Martin's Phantom books seem to indicate that the doors were identically placed...on both mark's . I wonder why McDonnell Douglas would have built two separate types? 

The Sgt. Fletcher tanks should have one strengthening strip as you have pointed out.

cheers

Bill

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Bill, as far as I can see( in all the ref books I have), the Speys had both lower ( frontal underside ) and  ( rear upper ) doors..

 

The J-79's  had the under  the forward fuselage doors only.. unless i@m not looking...

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They didn't build two types of aux intake doors. I didn't say that. (that was someone else) But, there are different doors on both sides of the fuselage behind those, and in front of the tail.

 

Gimme a sec, I think this is on the web, not just in my head and in antique books.

 

here it is, Kim's Blog http://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/search/label/RAF

 

scroll past the tail details, which mostly deals with the tip, and look at "aft fuselage differences"

 

Kim had it exactly right, I remember checking here at home after he posted his drawings.

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2 hours ago, Rex said:

,,,,and really did mean the fuselage doors behind the air doors.

 

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1 minute ago, Rex said:

They didn't build two types of aux intake doors. I didn't say that. (that was someone else) But, there are different doors on both sides of the fuselage behind those, and in front of the tail.

 

Gimme a sec, I think this is on the web, not just in my head and in antique books.

 

here it is, Kim's Blog http://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/search/label/RAF

 

scroll past the tail details, which mostly deals with the tip, and look at "aft fuselage differences"

 

Kim had it exactly right, I remember checking here at home after he posted his drawings.

actually, they did......

look at any FG1/FGR2 on taxi/ shutdown... they are everywhere

In fact the FG.1 on launch, you can see both types open..

 

Ref pages 76-93   " F-4 Phantom- The St Louis Slugger" , amongst others.....

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geez, you simply can't be doing this by accident

 

at no point did I type "auxiliary intake doors", unless in reference to your "not understanding"

 

I said, and meant "rear fuselage doors",,,,,,,,BEHIND the upper fuselage auxiliary air intake doors (maintenance doors, as found on all of the Phantoms in various places with labels such as "door 61", etc, etc)

 

so, to be clear,,,,YOU are talking about "upper fuselage auxiliary intake doors" and two types of doors when you stay fixated on that (upper and lower)

 

*I* am talking about fuselage doors behind those, of which their were two types,  and talking about the vertical tails on the K and M, which came from the F-4B and RF-4C, respectively

 

And now, I really no longer care,,,,,,,I'll just build the Eastern Express F-4K OOB

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OK, I see what you mean about the fin. Easily attended to with a splodge of filler if it's that apparent on the airfix kit and I thought that you were referring to the auxiliary intake doors on the fuselage, not the panels to service the tail hook. 

 

Incidentally talking of the Aux intake doors,  for anyone with Fujimi kits in  the stash, the original batch issued by them, with lower box serial numbers did have these in the wrong place. Later editions with higher box serial numbers had them corrected along with better detailed Spey nozzles and separate lower speed brakes. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Rex said:

geez, you simply can't be doing this by accident

 

at no point did I type "auxiliary intake doors", unless in reference to your "not understanding"

 

I said, and meant "rear fuselage doors",,,,,,,,BEHIND the upper fuselage auxiliary air intake doors (maintenance doors, as found on all of the Phantoms in various places with labels such as "door 61", etc, etc)

 

so, to be clear,,,,YOU are talking about "upper fuselage auxiliary intake doors" and two types of doors when you stay fixated on that (upper and lower)

 

*I* am talking about fuselage doors behind those, of which their were two types,  and talking about the vertical tails on the K and M, which came from the F-4B and RF-4C, respectively

 

And now, I really no longer care,,,,,,,I'll just build the Eastern Express F-4K OOB

 

Mea culpa.....6 of me being a bit thick, and half a dozen of you not explaining yourself properly......

enjoy your Kit.....

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not you, Bill

 

I very deliberately avoided typing "aux intake doors" to him, and only used that term to explain the location between them and the tail when I had to

 

I foolishly thought that everyone that knows the Phantom knows the difference between "doors" and "aux intake doors"

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20 minutes ago, phantomdriver said:

Then, they are most likely for the RAT.....

yeah, just pop them open, and reach 12-15 feet forward and work away

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9 minutes ago, Rex said:

not you, Bill

 

I very deliberately avoided typing "aux intake doors" to him, and only used that term to explain the location between them and the tail when I had to

 

I foolishly thought that everyone that knows the Phantom knows the difference between "doors" and "aux intake doors"

then, you should make yourself perfectly clear in the first place, irrespective of what you term them, as no one is a mind reader, then there would be No misunderstanding

 

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3 hours ago, Rex said:

I quit,,,,,,,we'll get what we get.

 

Hang in there, Rex. The truth will prevail and ultimately influence Airfix to get it correct..

 

Gene K

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One could hope, Gene, one could hope.

 

I don't have any idea how to be more clear than to say "fuselage doors", as I did say.

 

I just thought that it would be cool to build OOB, and have it be the "boxtop version" without having to putty and rescribe or file the kit pieces.

 

Gene, since you are here,,,,,,,,,any interest in some other Phantom 1/72 pieces? I let myself get convinced to share some of my stuff, as long as I "add 1% for resin shrinkage." You know, boring stuff like Parrot's Beaks, and the "forgotten F-4B nose", MBRs (forward and aft situated positions), PMBRs, MK 89s, that strange "3-bomb F-4C inner bomb pylon", the USAF dry outer weapons pylon, Royal Jet wing tanks,,,,,stuff like that. The friend said he would forward the masters to a resin caster that he uses. So, I am sort of also "taking requests" for stuff that some of us could use, that none of the companies have produced in the kits. Definitely not in it for the money, but, if there are things that we want to build, I'm willing to share the results from the masters.

Edited by Rex
forgot "of" in a sentence

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Enough bickering, any new Phantom kit is a good Phantom kit.

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7 hours ago, Rex said:

 ... any interest in some other Phantom 1/72 pieces? 

 

I don't know yet as concerns the new Airfix Phantom as I'm definitely weak on the nuances of the British versions - for example, the FG.1 was the Naval and Air Force air defense version, but the kit shows external stores and the recce pod for what I assumed was for the RAF FGR.2 land based strike version? So maybe there are parts for both versions in one kit or a second one is coming ... or I didn't/don't  know that  the FG.1 carried those stores. 

 

As for an FGR.2, I "seem to recall" a recce pod modified from a 370 gal wing tank, but can't find it right now in my refs. That pod would be an item of interest for resin. 

 

As for resin for other Phantom versions, I'd be interested in an F-4H1 conversion similar to the Falcon Triple Conversion, but that's off topic. :thumbsup:

 

Gene K

 

Found the wing tank mod I referred to - it's the LS-93A Electronic Night Flash System which was carried under the port wing. There's a 1/48 kit, but haven't found one in 1/72.

Edited by Gene K

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I've been modelling RAF/FAA Phantoms for years and I never knew about the fin leading edge nor the access door differences. You live and learn! In modelling terms this is just a matter of filling a couple of panel lines and re-scribing  in anew. That's if it bothers you of course,  I won't get into the panel line debate here!  Airfix would be unlikely to offer two separate fins to accommodate both variations, though you never know!  Frog/Hasegawa, Matchbox  and Fujimi in 1/72 and Hasegawa in 1/48 certainly never noticed it! 

I'm seriously looking forward to this kit, I have every single Modeldecal sheet to use up!!

 

Edited by Bill Clark
Spelling

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You are right about most of those companies.

 

Fujimi did cover it,,,,,,but, they covered it very spotty. Sometimes, they have the tail right for one version, and then didn't do it on another.

 

The idea that Fujimi did it 30 years ago is what made me think it was a no-brainer for a British company to do them right on their initial release of a British only aircraft.

 

Now that both Kim's and Tommy's info is linked in this thread, and someone is brave enough to tell them NOT to use Spirit in the Skies as their reference,,,,,it becomes "free research" for Airfix. (I'll do it,,,,,,Airfix,,,,Do NOT use Spirit in the Skies as your reference for Spey Phantoms, it is riddled with errors)

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8 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said:

 

Outstanding - thanks.

 

Tommy snuck this very relevant point into his blog:

" As it happens, my first job after college was working for McDonnell Aircraft as a junior flight test engineer on the F-4K/M Phantom program".

 

Salute!

 

Gene K

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23 hours ago, Gene K said:

 

I don't know yet as concerns the new Airfix Phantom as I'm definitely weak on the nuances of the British versions - for example, the FG.1 was the Naval and Air Force air defense version, but the kit shows external stores and the recce pod for what I assumed was for the RAF FGR.2 land based strike version? So maybe there are parts for both versions in one kit or a second one is coming ... or I didn't/don't  know that  the FG.1 carried those stores. 

 

 

In Royal Navy service the Phantom FG.1 was intended to be used as both a Fleet Defense fighter  with a secondary Ground Attack role, there are quite a few pictures of RN Phantoms carrying Rocket Pods or Free Fall Bombs.

 

In the post WW2 British military the Mk designator also signifies the role as below:

 

F - Fighter (as in Air Superiority)

G - Ground Attack 

A - Attack (this has been used more recently particularly for aircraft with Maritime roles e.g. Sea Harrier FA.2, Nimrod MRA.4, Merlin HMA.2) 

R - Reconnaissance (could also be prefixed with an S, for Strategic Reconnaissance e.g. Victor SR.2, with a P for Photo Reconnaissance e.g. Canberra PR.9 or with an M for Maritime Reconaissance e.g. Nimrod MR.1/2)

S - Strike

B - Bomber

K - Tanker

C - Cargo / Troop Carrier

H - Helicopter

 

So the Royal Navy FG.1 Phantom (F-4K) was dual roled for Fighter and Ground Attack, whereas as the RAF FGR.2 (F-4M) also had the additional Reconnaissance role. It's quite easy once you know the system.

 

 

 

Edited by Ant Phillips
Additional info added

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