bushande Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: I think you've got it. 5 hours ago, rotaliscia said: Great thread! Then, to sum up, in order to build-up a VF-1 bird with the tan radome, but with standard tail provvided in the Tamiya kit (I'm not too confidend in my surgery skills), I've find out that is possible to select Bu.No. 159858 F-14A-90-GR NE112 in dec-78. Any other choice, as far as you know? Thanks! Again, it depends. Many VF-1 birds already had the standard beaver tail (note: still without ECM bumper (came with Block 135 upgrade)) during the second VF-1 cruise in 76/77. First cruise birds were mainly Block-55-65 ships while second cruise birds comprised of Block 75-80 birds. The 76/77 cruise was VF-1s last cruise with white belly / tan nose camos. The third cruise around 78 was a mix of different bloks and had the birds still in high viz markings but WITHOUT tan nose and white belly. During that cruise some birds had the standard beaver tail and two louvre gun grill layout, some birds still had the old seven louvre grill / boat tail combo. 159858 was with VF-114 the year before it transitioned to VF-1 and later moving on to VF-213 in '79. tandard Block 90 bird. As said, no tan nose there and the red cheat stripe is gone (it was there during the 77/78 cruise though.) Edited January 3, 2017 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 15 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: Good to know! Now the question is did the development/prototype aircraft have them? As said, the first protos didn't. In fact they had a quite different inner layout of the tailfins with different antennae and sensors attached. However, at least the last six prototypes had the hex fairings attached though and the other prototypes got that refit later on as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Just for completion's sake - a bird from VF-1's third Tomcat cruise in 77/78. Still high-viz incl. the cheat stripe, albeit no white belly and no tan nose, still the old boat tail and 7-louvre grill (158981): A second VF-1 cruise bird from late '76 (159467). Still has the old 7-louvre grill but already beaver tail. Tomcats are real fun eh?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Would it be correct to say that once they went with the overall gull gray, the tan radome went away? I love the look of the overall gull gray with the full Wolfpack markings. Maybe it's just because I hate painting white! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 2 hours ago, bushande said: As said, the first protos didn't. In fact they had a quite different inner layout of the tailfins with different antennae and sensors attached. However, at least the last six prototypes had the hex fairings attached though and the other prototypes got that refit later on as well. I've got to come with a way to do the different wing sweep area. The Tamiya kit is set up quite nicely to make that happen. I also have to make the larger over-wing braces. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Well well....just need my beaver tail to arrive then I'm ready for a first cruise Tomcat! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan buysse Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 51 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: I've got to come with a way to do the different wing sweep area. The Tamiya kit is set up quite nicely to make that happen. I also have to make the larger over-wing braces. Yes, you must. I'm pretty much committed to building one now that I have removed the hexagonal plates from a Tamiya Tomcat. Luckily, I have a genuine interest in those "early birds". Cheers, Stefan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stefan buysse said: Yes, you must. I'm pretty much committed to building one now that I have removed the hexagonal plates from a Tamiya Tomcat. Luckily, I have a genuine interest in those "early birds". Cheers, Stefan. All is not lost! This set contains a set of vinyl hex stiffener plates, even though they aren't shown in the picture. It also contains the RIO's boarding step stiffener, plates for the wing sweep area that Revell left off, and the panels for the ventral strakes. hex stiffeners Edited January 4, 2017 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan buysse Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: All is not lost! This set contains a set of vinyl hex stiffener plates, even though they aren't shown in the picture. It also contains the RIO's boarding step stiffener, plates for the wing sweep area that Revell left off, and the panels for the ventral strakes. hex stiffeners Hi, Thanks for the tip, from looking at the image I would have thought only the L-shaped stiffeners were included in that set. With the possibility of a really early Tomcat conversion or the possibility of just building one with the L-shaped stiffeners, I wasn't that worried. Thanks, Bushande, for making my VF-1 build a bit more accurate. Cheers, Stefan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotaliscia Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 18 hours ago, bushande said: Just for completion's sake - .... A second VF-1 cruise bird from late '76 (159467). Still has the old 7-louvre grill but already beaver tail. Tomcats are real fun eh?! GOD BLESS YOU, bushande! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Will these decals work? I have them left over from my 1/72 AMT Top Gun build. They have NK 100 158979 which was on that cruise BUT did it overfly Vietnam? There are also numbers to make 103, 104, and 105. I have another F-14A in 1/72 on the way, this has interested me for years.---John OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by jvandeu53, on Flickr Edited January 4, 2017 by john53 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
torchf4 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 On 1/4/2017 at 3:19 AM, bushande said: Just for completion's sake - a bird from VF-1's third Tomcat cruise in 77/78. Still high-viz incl. the cheat stripe, albeit no white belly and no tan nose, still the old boat tail and 7-louvre grill (158981): Tomcats are real fun eh?! Wow love this! Couple of questions- are decals available to build this scheme and any mods needed to the Tamiya kit???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, torchf4 said: Wow love this! Couple of questions- are decals available to build this scheme and any mods needed to the Tamiya kit???? The early VF-1 scheme from any decal sheet should work, with the exception of the BuNo. Steel Beach makes a backdate set for the Tamiya kit that includes the beaver tail, seven louvered gun vent, and IRST chin pod. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I made this list awhile ago, but it may help for the small details of the Tomcat and what BuNo's originally had what. Here's a quick and dirty listing of all the F-14 block and BuNo's along with a description of what they looked like in regard to chin pods, ECM gear, gun vents, etc. I had fun perusing some books, and was kind of surprised to find how many Tomcats carried the early style gun vent. There are definitely some "never say nevers" in pictures, also! Hopefully this trivial information will be of some aid. F-14A-60 (158612 158619) F-14A-65 (158620 158637) F-14A-70 (158978 159006) -- no alpha probe -- early beaver tail -- IRST/ALQ-100 chin pod or just ALQ-100 -- 7-holed gun vent -- Notes of interest: 158621 had the short gun muzzle with no gun vent. Some jets had the 7-holed gun vent replaced by the standard 2-holed gun vent later in life, even while retaining the original beaver tail. They also received the nose alpha probe later in life, even if they didn't have a Block 135 upgrade. F-14A-75 (159007 159025) -- no alpha probe -- early beaver tail -- ALQ-100 -- 7-holed gun vent -- Notes of interest: Many of these jets retained the early beaver tail and gun vent throughout their life. Some were upgraded to Block 135 and had the standard beaver tail installed. They also received the nose alpha probe later in life, even if they didn't have a Block 135 upgrade. F-14A-75 (159421 159429) F-14A-80 (159430 159468) -- no alpha probe -- standard beavertail -- ALQ-100 -- 7-holed gun vent F-14A -85 (159588 159637) -- no alpha probe -- standard beaver tail -- ALQ-100 -- Notes of interest: The early 7-holed gun vent was installed up 159611. Starting somewhere within 159612 - 159615, the standard 2-holed gun vent was installed. The first definitive picture is of 159615. F-14A-90 (159825 159874) F-14A-95 (160379 160414) F-14A-100 (160652 160696) F-14A-105 (160887 160937) F-14A-110 (161138 161168) -- standard beaver tail -- nose alpha probe -- standard 2-holed gun vent -- ALQ-100 F-14A-115 (161270 161299) F-14A-120 (161416 161445) -- ECM blisters under glove vanes and beavertail -- standard beaver tail -- nose alpha probe -- standard 2-holed gun vent -- ALQ-100 F-14A-125 (161597 161626) F-14A-130 (161850 161873) F-14A-135 (162588 162611) F-14A-140 (162688 162711) -- TCS/ALQ-100 chin pod -- ECM blisters under glove vanes and beavertail -- standard beaver tail -- nose alpha probe -- standard 2-holed gun vent F-14B-145 (162910 162927) F-14B-150 (163215 163229) F-14B-155 (163407 163411) -- TACAN antenna -- ECM blister on left nose gear -- ECM blisters on sides of intakes -- NACA gun vents -- GE F110 engines -- TCS/ALQ-100 chin pod -- standard beaver tail -- nose alpha probe F-14D-160 (163412 163418) F-14D-165 (163893 163904) F-14D-170 (164340 164604) -- dual IRST/TCS chin pod -- new cockpit layout and seats -- TACAN antenna -- ECM blister on left nose gear -- ECM blisters on sides of intakes -- NACA gun vents -- standard beaver tail -- nose alpha probe -- GE F110 engines -- ECM blisters under wing glove removed Overall notes of interest: The above info is how they came out of Grumman. As the airframes aged,many were upgraded to Block 135 standards. Late in life, A's began being upgraded with the ECM gear found in Bs. This means the only way to tell the difference between a late A and a B is the engine nozzles and the glove vanes (As had them, Bs didnt). The early 7-holed gun vent/beavertail arrangement could be found up to as late as 1989, if not even into the early 90s with the reserve squadrons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Didn't VF-2 Bounty Hunters F-14As also fly top cover for Frequent Wind?---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bozothenutter Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 so...how do we get Fightertown to do another run of 48014? I have two healthy kidney's! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan buysse Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 On 4/01/2017 at 3:07 AM, Darren Roberts said: It also contains the RIO's boarding step stiffener, hex stiffeners Hi, I'm curious about when these were installed. I know there aren't any exact dates, but do we have approximate "not seen before...." and "very few Tomcats without them after...." dates for these? Cheers, Stefan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) Stefan: Do NOT use the reinforcements for the RIOs boarding ladder on your early Tomcat. They had to be installed (in addition to several other patch ups around the airframe) only around the nineties as the Tomcat grew older and spare part / replacement supply by Grumman and its sub contractors seized due to the cancelled production line. The RIOs step was way more frequented than the pilots step as maintainers reached the top hull via this step and it was also set in an area where the airframe had less inner beams thus making it more prone to wear in terms of hull integrity. You'll find that fairl standardized reinforcement on a lot of birds rather late in their carrier i.e. the mid/late nineties on towards the end but it has nothing left on an 80s bird or even an early bird from the 70s. Edited January 7, 2017 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, john53 said: Didn't VF-2 Bounty Hunters F-14As also fly top cover for Frequent Wind?---John Yes both squadrons did air cover for the evacuation of Saigon. VF-1 became a little more "infamous" because of the elusive rumor of an alleged gun strafing which has so far not been confirmed however. Edited January 7, 2017 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Thats an awesome list Darran. However! As Darren stated, that is how they rolled of the production line in Bethpage. First changes and upgrades hit the fleet rather quickly though. For instance the short gun muzzle was only installed on very few birds when they hit the fleet and were replaced almost as soon as they entered squadron service. When it comes to Tomcats and Navy birds in general I would always suggest to look for an Original you like, track down the BuNo and at least as much importantly the time when the Original is supposed to be depicted. Do the research and than evaluate which model kit requires the least changes (not referring to the general quality of a kit here though!). If you just model randomly only according to a certain BuNo you've come to like without checking the timeframe and potential reference of the original or a camo you like you'll most likely end up doing a "flawed" version of the original as you might end up not having incorporated a certain specific the bird had already at the time the serial whore the camo you prefer or the other way around for that matter. It's tough for the modeller who wishes to stay authentic but hey, it's the Navy, what else but an "adventure" do you expect?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) On 4.1.2017 at 10:09 PM, john53 said: Will these decals work? I have them left over from my 1/72 AMT Top Gun build. They have NK 100 158979 which was on that cruise BUT did it overfly Vietnam? There are also numbers to make 103, 104, and 105. I have another F-14A in 1/72 on the way, this has interested me for years.---John OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by jvandeu53, on Flickr You will need a boat tail plus 7 louvre grill for Wichita 100 during the first cruise (IRST on off and dialectic panels on / off boat tail as you please) and Gayblade 204 (like that more than Gypsy hihi ) requires a 7 louvre gun grill, beaver tail is o.k.. (BTW: 159015 later on became the ominous "Deer Hunter" of VF-101 after it went through substantial Block upgrade) Edited January 7, 2017 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) On 3.1.2017 at 11:11 PM, Darren Roberts said: Would it be correct to say that once they went with the overall gull gray, the tan radome went away? I love the look of the overall gull gray with the full Wolfpack markings. Maybe it's just because I hate painting white! Not necessarily Darren. I remember to have shot of a '78 VF-1 bird with already overal gull grey but with tan nose somewhere in the pile but can't find it at the moment. Yet I think it was not common though and I might even go so far as to say the photo was just a lucky shot during that "transition" phase. During the third and last cruise of VF-1 aboard Enterprise the tan noses were generally gone. I got some shots of that cruise and I cannot find any Tomcat with a tan nose in both squadrons. Edited January 7, 2017 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 On 4.1.2017 at 0:24 AM, Stefan buysse said: Yes, you must. I'm pretty much committed to building one now that I have removed the hexagonal plates from a Tamiya Tomcat. Luckily, I have a genuine interest in those "early birds". Cheers, Stefan. Be careful Stefan. If you really want to do one of the very early protos you are set for quite a pile of rework. The extended overwing fairings are just one of the more obvious changes but far from everything that needs to be considered. There are changes in the cockpit including a second "HUD" for the Rio, larger strackes on the wingbox, partially a different engine layout as the early P412 version of the TF30 missed some of the overlay feathers past the brace, antennae are different, the stencils were applied differently, they had an extra formation light on each side and depending on which serial it is going to be the antennae on the tailfin and the boat tail itself looked extensively different. Practically each of at least the first half of the 12 protos looked different to its sisters in one or other aspect. Almost none of them were the like. Well ... prototypes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 On 1/3/2017 at 5:11 PM, Darren Roberts said: Would it be correct to say that once they went with the overall gull gray, the tan radome went away? I love the look of the overall gull gray with the full Wolfpack markings. Maybe it's just because I hate painting white! Not VF-1 but VF-84 from 1988 with tan nose cone. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/F-14A_VF-84_at_NAS_Fallon_1988.JPEG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Didn't some of VF-2 have NO tan nose on 1975 Enterprise cruise?---John F-14As VF-1-VF-2 on Enterprise 1975 by jvandeu53, on Flickr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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