Falconxlvi Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 When did the Tomcat start to carry external fuel tanks? I can't seem to find any pics on the web of early Tomcat units (LGG/white schemes) carrying external tanks. So, if you were building the Tamiya F-14 as an early VF-41 or VF-84 jet in the LGG/white schemes from the Furball sheets, should you leave the external tanks off? - Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 The tanks were seen very rarely during the Gull Gray/White days. They seem to make a regular appearance after the change to overall Gull Gray. I'd say the early to mid 80's is when they seem to be seen quite often. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falconxlvi Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 33 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: The tanks were seen very rarely during the Gull Gray/White days. They seem to make a regular appearance after the change to overall Gull Gray. I'd say the early to mid 80's is when they seem to be seen quite often. Thanks Darren- that is what I have seen on the net as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 VF-1 from around 1974/75. No tanks but the tank pylons are present. http://collections.naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=69080 http://collections.naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=71201 VF-2 from 1975. No tanks but has the tank pylons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I really don't know why the tanks weren't used all that much back then. Hopefully someone in the know will answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Tanks existed as early as the prototypes went into testing. There are plenty of pics around even showing the prototypes with tanks. Early fleet birds also had the tanks and carried them also during the first F-14 cruise 74/75. However, first: not enough tanks to equip all birds in the fleet and more immanently second: the initial tanks had little winglets applied to their rear. It was found that these little winglets actually caused quite some problems by keeping the tank just that fracture of a second too long gliding under the intake trunks upon drop to damage the ventral strakes. Hence the tanks that were handed out at the time had to be withdrawn in order to remove the winglets and the newly produced tanks had to be reconfigured. All that caused a temporary shortage of tanks. But there are plenty pics of the early birds, including also VF-1 -2 etc. with the early tanks strapped on. You would have to rework the tanks in the Tamiya kit however. As of 76 onwards there are pictures floating around showing early VF-114, -142, -143, -211, -213 etc. birds with white bellies and the tanks but with removed winglets. I'd have to check my archive but I do have pictures of first cruise VF-1 and VF-2 Tomcats aboard Enterprise sitting on the catapult with tanks strapped on. Edited December 6, 2016 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Edited December 6, 2016 by twong Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) BTW: The bird in the above pic with the 4x2x2 load banking and still in production livery is 159853, i.e. the later famous VX-4 Black Bunny F-14A of 90-92 ;-) Edited December 6, 2016 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomthegrom Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 I would also like to know when the tanks changes from the sort of half domed end like in the hasegawa kit, the the flattened end. Sometimes the flattened end seemed upainted also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Viper_944FW Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Just to confirm what was already said, they were carried late 70's onward. In VF213 they were used only when there were no "friendly" bingo/divert fields available, like way out in the middle of the ocean or near hostile nations. The pic below of the gray/white is not mine, but this was from 78-79 time-frame and I joined the squad in 1980, which by then were either all gull gray or in the process of being painted that color. When not carrying tanks the pylons were always installed, never saw one without it in my 2yrs with the unit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizar Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 On 7/12/2016 at 6:37 AM, tomthegrom said: I would also like to know when the tanks changes from the sort of half domed end like in the hasegawa kit, the the flattened end. Sometimes the flattened end seemed upainted also. dropping the bomb as I was looking to old books and mags with Tomcats in and it looked like they were used from mid/late 80s If those were made by fiberglass I suspect that the mold was flatted or those were just old tanks with fins and once they removed the fins they also flattened the ending Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Viper_944FW Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 The ones our tomcats were using in the early 80's were metal, I'm assuming aluminum. Never heard of there being any composite/fiberglass types . . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 The flat end is nothing but a cap put on the end after the part with the winglets had been removed. It ad to be manufactured by Grumman and its subcontractor Rohr aviation in the meantime in order to seal the open ends until new production tanks with the corrected end hit the fleet. On some pictures of late seventies / early to mid-eighties birds you can still see the round tank containers sticking out of the open hull of the tank. I think Hasegawa rendered that quite nice in their kits?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Sorry my scanner said bye bye - hence can't provide better ref at the moment but here you go: First cruise VF-1/ Vf-2 birds sitting at deck with tanks strapped on. (somewhere in my pile I have a neat B/W shot of Wichita-101 sitting on the cat with wings extended, kneeling, IRST under the nose, tanks on and a neat full compliment of Phoenix missiles under the belly and AIM-7 and -9 under the gloves. Nasty shot. If only I could find it now. I really need to clean up my darned pile. ) Aaaaand VF-41 / -84 with tanks under a white belly: Edited January 3, 2017 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falconxlvi Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Well those are awesome shots. Thanks for sharing! I would love to see the Wichita 101 shot you referenced! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manuel J. Armas S. Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 What about this VF-84? I thinkg it still have the lower fuselage in White, and the fuel tanks in flat gull gray. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomthegrom Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Wow never seen the coloured VF-84 stripes like that on the fuel tanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manuel J. Armas S. Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) And this VF-84? Edited January 4, 2017 by Manuel J. Armas S. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuNo02100 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I believe that the two pics Manuel posted show something I have been trying to reconcile, and that is whether some of the shoulder weapons pylons and possibly AIM-54 fuselage pallets were still in white during the 1980-81 cruise aboard Nimitz. Other photos seem to indicate that they no longer had white painted flying surfaces which is usually the indicator for the overall light grey scheme with no white undersides. BUT, to my eye, several of VF-84s birds on that cruise seem to have white weapons pylons. It could very well be a lighting trick but the AIM-9 carried appears to the the same light color as the shoulder pylon, and this was during the change over in schemes for both aircraft and missles, so anyone with an opinion and photos that cares to weigh in, please do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The two photos Manuel posted are not gull gray over white, they are both overall gull gray. The pylons are gull gray as well. It is just the lighting. They were still using white painted missiles from old stock so you will see some white missiles with overall gull gray schemes and even up into TPS schemes. Here is a full size of the first one he posted. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/87/d1/8a/87d18abdd19d16cea50b0f8592ced89d.jpg TPS with white AIM-54's Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 VF-84 in overall gull gray with white missiles https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/F-14A_VF-84_trap_on_USS_Nimitz_(CVN-68)_1981.JPEG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Vf-41 and VF-84 from Operation Eagle Claw with mostly white missiles. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/F-14A_VF-41_and_VF-84_Operation_Eagle_Claw-1980.JPEG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manuel J. Armas S. Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, twong said: The two photos Manuel posted are not gull gray over white, they are both overall gull gray. The pylons are gull gray as well. It is just the lighting. They were still using white painted missiles from old stock so you will see some white missiles with overall gull gray schemes and even up into TPS schemes. Here is a full size of the first one he posted. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/87/d1/8a/87d18abdd19d16cea50b0f8592ced89d.jpg TPS with white AIM-54's Check the NAVY in modex 201, it looks White and gull gray to me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ant Phillips Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Manuel J. Armas S. said: Check the NAVY in modex 201, it looks White and gull gray to me... My first thought was that modex 210 was overall Lt. Gull Grey and modex 201 was Lt. Gull Grey / White, as the flap / spoiler area seems to be lighter than the rest of the wing but its difficult to be certain, but now you mention it, there does seem to be a demarcation line behind the NAVY title too. Edited January 4, 2017 by Ant Phillips Typo corrected Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fighting Eighty-Four Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) This was a short lived transition period VF-84 went through right around the timing of the filming of the movie "The FInal Countdown" in which the undersides were still white, but all upper surfaces that had been white previously (Horz Stabs, flaps) were now painted LGG. VF-84's white demarcation line was very low compared to other squadrons, making it look as if it is all-over LGG in many pics. Here you can see the Phoenix pallets appear to be white. They went to LGG overall when the also changed the large national insignia in the center of the vagabond strip to offset to the lower right. Edited January 4, 2017 by Fighting Eighty-Four Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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