MacStingy Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 So Trump has cancelled his new ride. What are my friends to the south saying about this? Our PM has an Airbus. Is this like showing up to the front of the Oscars in a Hyundai? Has Boeing just gotten too comfortable? Leave politics out or I'll get blacklisted. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose135 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Nothing has been cancelled. He isn't the President, so he can't approve or cancel the program at this point. I'll leave it at that, lest this become political. Link to post Share on other sites
Raceaddict Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 There is no "order" for a new Air Force One. There is only a contract for the development of a plan for the new one. "We are currently under contract for $170 million to help determine the capabilities of these complex military aircraft that serve the unique requirements of the president of the United States," the company said in a statement Tuesday. "We look forward to working with the U.S. Air Force on subsequent phases of the program allowing us to deliver the best planes for the president at the best value for the American taxpayer." Link to post Share on other sites
Gordon Shumway Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 The next AF1 is not cancelled. Trump is only injecting his view that as POTUS he wants Boeing to not gouge the tax payer. Now maybe Boeing is at about $4B for the next AF1 programme maybe it's not. NONE OF US KNOW! But President [elect] Trump is wise to at least shine a light on this to see if any gouging is happening. Don't forget he is a career businessman and thinks like one even when he will be POTUS. Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) 474-8I has been in production for six years. Airliner model costs about $380M. Custom interior and electronics fit certainly adds to the price. But $4B spent just for planning two new aircraft sales? That's ridiculous. Edited December 9, 2016 by Slartibartfast Link to post Share on other sites
MacStingy Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 Boy, do I feel silly. I don't remember what news blurb I saw now, but it sounded like a done deal. Thanks for setting me straight. Think I'll take a nap now. Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Man who isn't yet president cancels aircraft contract that isn't yet formalized? 21 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: 474-8I has been in production for six years. Airliner model costs about $380M. Custom interior and electronics fit certainly adds to the price. But $4B spent just for planning two new aircraft sales? That's ridiculous. I think it may be excessive, but I don't think its far off. This is not a couple of special ordered 747s these custom made, military grade, mobile command posts that are hardened against nuclear attack. 50 percent of the Raptors costs (and maybe even more for F-35) are avionics. Its not far fetched to see the some pretty dramatic increases when the 21 century comm. gear and defense systems get added in, IMHO. When the last administration canceled the new Marine One with this "aww shucks, ive never had a helicopter before" Even President Obama seemed bewildered by the runaway program. “The helicopter I have seems perfectly adequate to me," Obama said. "Of course, I've never had a helicopter before. Maybe I've been deprived and I didn't know it.” thing I just shook my head. Of course he doesnt have to work on the old helicopter and keep a super high serviceability rate. I knew a Marine with HMX-1 when that contract got canceled and he just head desked at that cancellation. and 3 billion dollars had already been spent. Now the next contract of course is looking even more expensive, and we can't get that 3 billion back. I'm fine with Trump wanting to fight to get a better deal, I'm not fine with cancellation, because they have to be replaced eventually. Link to post Share on other sites
Nathant Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Both Boeing, And the U.S Government have gotten way too comfortable!! Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Does seem a tad over the top. Our Prime Minister flies in an old Airbus with a snazy paint job. When not being used by the PM its used by the Royal Family if visiting, the Governor General or as a troop transport for the Canadian Forces. A couple of Prime Ministers ago the government tried to sell the plane of to look good. But no one wanted it and it would have reduced military readiness for the remainder of the 5 plane airbus fleet. Having a couple planes (air force one) dedicated for one guy and his entourage and then all the support aircraft just seems a waste of money. Link to post Share on other sites
jpk Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Well if money is the problem I say when he's pres let Trump use his 757 and just park the 747's. Ok by me. Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 hour ago, phantom said: Does seem a tad over the top. Our Prime Minister flies in an old Airbus with a snazy paint job. When not being used by the PM its used by the Royal Family if visiting, the Governor General or as a troop transport for the Canadian Forces. A couple of Prime Ministers ago the government tried to sell the plane of to look good. But no one wanted it and it would have reduced military readiness for the remainder of the 5 plane airbus fleet. Having a couple planes (air force one) dedicated for one guy and his entourage and then all the support aircraft just seems a waste of money. Not to sound snide but the POTUS has different needs. I'm willing to bet that the "old" Airbus (is it any older than the current AF1?) is a commercial spec airliner with none of the equip TT listed above. To put the Prez in an aircraft with no defensive system, secure communications systems, etc just isn't going to happen. In addition to many other requirements, AF1 needs to allow the big guy to be able to authorize a nuclear strike in the event the US is targeted while he is airborne. On second thought, maybe having this last feature for the incoming president isn't such a good idea. Kidding boys..... This is a non-story. I believe that after the dust from that tweet settled, Trump then said that he'd negotiate a deal with Boeing on these aircraft. Some have implied that the tweet was payback because Boeing's CEO had made a disparging comment about Trump in an earlier speech. Link to post Share on other sites
Gordon Shumway Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, jpk said: Well if money is the problem I say when he's pres let Trump use his 757 and just park the 747's. Ok by me. As cool as Trump's 757 is, it lacks the things needed for POTUS. President Trump will be using the existing AF1. Only if and hopefully when he has served 8 years will he likely be riding in the new AF1 near the end of his 8 years as POTUS. His son's will be using the TRUMP 757 as they take control of his business empire. From what I hear it sounds like D.J.T. wants Ivanka as a part of his W.H. team. Edited December 10, 2016 by Gordon Shumway Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 7 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: But $4B spent just for planning two new aircraft sales? That's ridiculous. That's because it's not true. Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 well, looks like the next 4 years won't be boring, but will it be good??? Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 3 hours ago, phantom said: Does seem a tad over the top. Our Prime Minister flies in an old Airbus with a snazy paint job. When not being used by the PM its used by the Royal Family if visiting, the Governor General or as a troop transport for the Canadian Forces. A couple of Prime Ministers ago the government tried to sell the plane of to look good. But no one wanted it and it would have reduced military readiness for the remainder of the 5 plane airbus fleet. Having a couple planes (air force one) dedicated for one guy and his entourage and then all the support aircraft just seems a waste of money. I still find it funny that another PM took suitcases stuffed full of money from Airbus and didn't serve a day in jail. That just isn't normal business practice for anyone except for actors in movies playing bad guys. Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 hour ago, 11bee said: Not to sound snide but the POTUS has different needs. I'm willing to bet that the "old" Airbus (is it any older than the current AF1?) is a commercial spec airliner with none of the equip TT listed above. To put the Prez in an aircraft with no defensive system, secure communications systems, etc just isn't going to happen. In addition to many other requirements, AF1 needs to allow the big guy to be able to authorize a nuclear strike in the event the US is targeted while he is airborne. On second thought, maybe having this last feature for the incoming president isn't such a good idea. Kidding boys..... This is a non-story. I believe that after the dust from that tweet settled, Trump then said that he'd negotiate a deal with Boeing on these aircraft. Some have implied that the tweet was payback because Boeing's CEO had made a disparging comment about Trump in an earlier speech. You are correct, there is nothing special on that Airbus except for gold facets in the toilets and the fancy paint job. It does have secure voice and IFF, but that is it. I recall seeing comsec equipment on Kennedy's 707 in Dayton. Although I am sure it wasn't coded I was shocked it wasn't removed. Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 9 hours ago, MacStingy said: So Trump has cancelled his new ride. What are my friends to the south saying about this? Our PM has an Airbus. Is this like showing up to the front of the Oscars in a Hyundai? Has Boeing just gotten too comfortable? Leave politics out or I'll get blacklisted. Since when did Trump actually do what he says? Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 If he canxels airforce one its probably to update his own trump plane then pay one of his companies to be airforce one Link to post Share on other sites
graves_09 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 12 hours ago, jpk said: Well if money is the problem I say when he's pres let Trump use his 757 and just park the 747's. Ok by me. Because the plane isn't for Trump, it's for the President of the United States. After 2020 or 2024 we will still need a presidential transport regardless of how trump chooses to travel. Besides the planned replacement won't be ready until 2023 (at best) so trump will probably never use the new AF1. Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 5 hours ago, graves_09 said: Because the plane isn't for Trump, it's for the President of the United States. After 2020 or 2024 we will still need a presidential transport regardless of how trump chooses to travel. Besides the planned replacement won't be ready until 2023 (at best) so trump will probably never use the new AF1. ' Indeed. And the way things are going it won't be ready until 2028, if don't get moving on it soon Link to post Share on other sites
Emvar Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 22 hours ago, Scooby said: I still find it funny that another PM took suitcases stuffed full of money from Airbus and didn't serve a day in jail. That just isn't normal business practice for anyone except for actors in movies playing bad guys. Had nothing to do with the A310s.... the "bailout" of Canadian Airlines was the result of the A310 purchase. These were all ex Wardair birds. The buckets of money came from the Then Crown Corp purchase of A320s from Airbus for Air Canada. The favoured aircraft was the Boeing 737. Edited December 11, 2016 by Emvar Link to post Share on other sites
superannuated Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 On 2016-12-09 at 2:21 PM, Gordon Shumway said: The next AF1 is not cancelled. Trump is only injecting his view that as POTUS he wants Boeing to not gouge the tax payer. Now maybe Boeing is at about $4B for the next AF1 programme maybe it's not. NONE OF US KNOW! But President [elect] Trump is wise to at least shine a light on this to see if any gouging is happening. Don't forget he is a career businessman and thinks like one even when he will be POTUS. That in itself is scary. If you think that he is "a career businessman and thinks like one even when he will be POTUS", guess you don't care about Social Security. Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 45 minutes ago, superannuated said: That in itself is scary. If you think that he is "a career businessman and thinks like one even when he will be POTUS", guess you don't care about Social Security. I Missed the connection. Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 there is no connection. there is many (even successful) businessmen involved in welfare/philanthropy. but since they don't need "to show off" to be elected, lots of people thinks that the rich ones are only greedy and heartless ones. and my comment is not related to Trump, because i have no idea of what he really does... everything is so unclear and scrambled around his businesses... (and this can be a valid way of doing business) But Please, could someone take him his smartphone and forbid him to use twitter. he could have put pressure on Boeing without making their share holders loose millions... Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Emvar said: Had nothing to do with the A310s.... the "bailout" of Canadian Airlines was the result of the A310 purchase. These were all ex Wardair birds. The buckets of money came from the Then Crown Corp purchase of A320s from Airbus for Air Canada. The favoured aircraft was the Boeing 737. Yes, I know that. Still wasn't a normal process. Link to post Share on other sites
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