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Z-M F-4J Question


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On 17/12/2016 at 11:08 PM, Stefan buysse said:

 

Jeffrey,

 

If you look into inboard pylons, I could use some 1/72 Navy style inboard pylons for Hasegawa kits.

How are the 1/48 Skywarrior canopies coming along? The last thing I remember is that you said the test shots weren't satisfactory yet.

 

Cheers, Stefan.

 

For the moment, inboard pylons (1:48 or 1:72) are not on my list. event he stuff that IS on my list is too much to handle at the moment, hence my constant delays in finishing any new products.

But outboard ones are definitely something I'm looking into at the moment.

 

The Skywarrior canopies are really wearing me out! The casting problem seems to have been overcome (famous last words!), but I'm struggling with achieving a really nice, "glass" surface finish on the masters. They've already been stripped and re-painted 6 or 7 times. Always something small goes wrong, I try to fix it and then disaster strikes. Strip - prime - fine sand - paint - sand - paint - polish - make moulds. That's the idea, it only has to work....

 

Cheers

J

Edited by JeffreyK
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On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 10:34 AM, Tailspin Turtle said:

The early Js, some or all with the short -8 afterburners, did not have the AWG-10 radar installed since (as with the -10 engines) production deliveries were behind schedule. My understanding is that they never received a radar since they, the so-called "lead-nose" Js because ballast was installed in lieu of the radar, wound up being the Blue Angels new mounts. As far as I know, the Ns never received the J's radar.

Thanks for the info Tommy. I thought it might be so.

 

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Also, keep in mind that those "lead nosed" F-4Js later showed up in various USN units, and kept their "smooth F-4K type" radomes. So, just as a quick check on ourselves, we need to look at any F-4J in some test unit's markings, and see if it has a former BA BuNo. If it does, it probably doesn't have the F-4J radar bump on the bottom rear of the radome.

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21 hours ago, Rex said:

Also, keep in mind that those "lead nosed" F-4Js later showed up in various USN units, and kept their "smooth F-4K type" radomes. So, just as a quick check on ourselves, we need to look at any F-4J in some test unit's markings, and see if it has a former BA BuNo. If it does, it probably doesn't have the F-4J radar bump on the bottom rear of the radome.

Rex, what radar "bump" are you referring to? The B had the IR seeker and the J's had that removed but had the ILS antenna. Is there something I'm missing or did the early lead nosed J's have the B's nose?

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I'm talking about the absence of that antenna on the bottom rear of the radome, seen on the F-4J and F-4S, that housed the AN/APR-32 RHAW.

 

Blue Angels while with the team, and after moving to support units, F-4J(UK), late F-4C, early F-4D, the F-4K and F-4M had "smooth" radomes, with no provision for that RHAW. (in other words, were cast without the slot)

 

Short nosed radomes were produced in 4 types, those with the slot towards the front for the IR and other pods (F-4B, C and D), those with a mounting at the rear for F-4J, etc, and those with no slots at all, as I listed in the previous paragraph. I don't know how the 4th was produced, that was the one-off for the Doppler equipped F-4K,,,,I don't know if that was made that way, or if it was modified from an existing F-4K radome.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My kit just arrived. Very nice! I'd already be diving into it, but I'm determined to finish my Hasegawa F/A-18 and F-16, first. Anyone think I can hold out that long? 

 

I don't really see the need for a lot of aftermarket to dress up this kit. It could definitely use some of Jeffrey's canopy details. The set intended for the Academy kit won't fit. The forward canopies are close to the same length, but Academy's aft canopy is 4-5 mm longer than Z-M's and Hasegawa's. The set intended for the Hasegawa kit looks like it might fit, but I don't know how close the bow of the canopies are across the two kits.

 

I'm going to drop some resin seats in my kit, just because I don't like fighting with PE seat belts. True Details' and Verlinden's seats are the same size as Z-M's.

 

I took some rough measurements, and it looks like Eduard's afterburner nozzles can be adapted to fit. I'm going to build mine as a Blue Angles jet, so I'll have to lengthen the aft fuselage for the short nozzles. I guess when they release the F-4C/D, they'll include the appropriate parts, but I'm too impatient to wait that long to see if I can order them!

 

Ben

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12 minutes ago, Ben Brown said:

My kit just arrived. Very nice! I'd already be diving into it, but I'm determined to finish my Hasegawa F/A-18 and F-16, first. Anyone think I can hold out that long? 

 

I don't really see the need for a lot of aftermarket to dress up this kit. It could definitely use some of Jeffrey's canopy details. The set intended for the Academy kit won't fit. The forward canopies are close to the same length, but Academy's aft canopy is 4-5 mm longer than Z-M's and Hasegawa's. The set intended for the Hasegawa kit looks like it might fit, but I don't know how close the bow of the canopies are across the two kits.

 

I'm going to drop some resin seats in my kit, just because I don't like fighting with PE seat belts. True Details' and Verlinden's seats are the same size as Z-M's.

 

I took some rough measurements, and it looks like Eduard's afterburner nozzles can be adapted to fit. I'm going to build mine as a Blue Angles jet, so I'll have to lengthen the aft fuselage for the short nozzles. I guess when they release the F-4C/D, they'll include the appropriate parts, but I'm too impatient to wait that long to see if I can order them!

 

Ben

 It will definitely get a newly designed, dedicated set, neither the Hasegawa nor the Academy shapes fit into the ZM canopies. Will take time though as it was quite a lengthy process to make the masters for the A. and H. kits.

 

My guess is that ZM designed the aft fuselage nozzle shroud as a separate part so that they can re-use the same fuselage tooling for other variants without compromising on accuracy (both Academy and Hasegawa didn't).

 

Can't wait to get start working on various sets for the kit, but I've got other stuff to finish first...

 

Jeffrey

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1 minute ago, Gene K said:

Jeffrey,

 

Are you aware of this ZM Set that includes canopy parts?

 

Gene K

 

Yes, I had seen it, but as with the various Eduard sets for previous Phantoms, it's not just about the PE parts. It's the 3D resin inserts that make the main difference. Let's see if anything like that will show up from other mfs in the near future, but I doubt it.

Cheers

Jeffrey

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50 minutes ago, Gene K said:

Jeffrey,

 

Are you aware of this ZM Set that includes canopy parts?

 

Gene K

 

The only detail parts I've seen that come close to Jeffrey's are the PE and white metal ones that came with the old Hasegawa High Tech F-4 kits. 

 

I'm a big fan of Jeffrey's canopy sets. I begged for something like them for years. 

 

Cheers!

 

Ben (all the usual disclaimers about no financial affiliation with Jeffrey, Hypersonic, etc.)

Edited by Ben Brown
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35 minutes ago, Ben Brown said:

I'm a big fan of Jeffrey's canopy sets. 

 

Same here ... have many of his other items also.

 

As an aside (since we're talking Aftermarket), I was delighted  :thumbsup:  to "find" unnumbered strip lights on ZM Tree C. Good for the F-4J(UK), as well as the spares box (since it's a common sprue for future ZM kits).

 

ZM%20Strip%20Lights%20Small.jpg

 

Gene K

 

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On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 0:06 PM, Rex said:

I'm talking about the absence of that antenna on the bottom rear of the radome, seen on the F-4J and F-4S, that housed the AN/APR-32 RHAW.

 

Blue Angels while with the team, and after moving to support units, F-4J(UK), late F-4C, early F-4D, the F-4K and F-4M had "smooth" radomes, with no provision for that RHAW. (in other words, were cast without the slot)

 

Short nosed radomes were produced in 4 types, those with the slot towards the front for the IR and other pods (F-4B, C and D), those with a mounting at the rear for F-4J, etc, and those with no slots at all, as I listed in the previous paragraph. I don't know how the 4th was produced, that was the one-off for the Doppler equipped F-4K,,,,I don't know if that was made that way, or if it was modified from an existing F-4K radome.

I thought the bump was the radar altimeter antenna. The APR antennae were in the leading edge of the wing just inboard of the leading edge flaps.

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Okay, Dave, you are probably right. But even so, we are talking about that same "bump" on the back of the J radome.

 

Here's a laugh for you Dave,,,,,,,almost all of the F-4 books I have say that the folding radome was invented for the F-4K,,,,,,do you remember how we opened them on the F-4B, J, N or S? yup, we folded them to starboard, lol.

 

(apparently they got the folding radar mixed up with the radome, I guess)

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On 1/1/2017 at 10:25 AM, Grey Ghost 531 said:

I thought the bump was the radar altimeter antenna. The APR antennae were in the leading edge of the wing just inboard of the leading edge flaps.

I believe that bump was associated with the APR-126 ECM equipment.  

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The bump at the back bottom of the Radome.

 

It couldn't have been AN/APR-126 because the J didn't have that until later on. They had an earlier number (-51 or -100?,,,,,,ahh, -51A or -100)

 

Here is Kim's F-4J page from before the -126 timeframe.

 

http://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/p/shoehorn-mod-4_29.html

 

and his page from -126 timeframe and up

 

http://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/p/analq-126.html

 

and of course, some books call that bump an AN/APR-32 RHAW Antenna on the early Js.

 

So, as an F-4B and F-4N p*ke,,,,,,,I know just enough to just shave that F-4J bump off or leave it on, depending on what I am building. (plastic doesn't care what I or anyone else says is inside of there, lol)

Edited by Rex
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