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well thats some good news. I am pretty sure most of the problems I had were with the assembly sequence. there are quite a few pieces in that area that need to be aligned perfectly.

 

Edited by dylan
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  • 1 month later...

Now where was I about a month ago. Oh yes the Foxbat.

Had taken some photos in the meantime but as usual the photobucket is not a too friendly place, but what can I do . . .

Photobucket is simply disgusting, annoying, frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   It took almost an hour to up-load the photos, with countless freezing on the way, photobucket loading all its spy things and completely useless adds . . . I am really fed up with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Still some review and a little work on the actual airframe. If you have a closer look the trailing edges of the different surfaces are nice and thin. Actually care should be taken as the plastic itself is fairly soft and it would not take much to cause damage to the edges.

 

 

ICM%2025RBT%2036_zpszzdhtam5.jpg

 

An interesting thing is that the counter rotating engine turbine blade has striked again. I imagine that during CAD development a simple mirroring of one side resulted in this. It is a nice little joke but in the end there will be little visible of it.

 

 

ICM%2025RBT%2037_zpsy9ec1gxi.jpg

 

 

The afterburner flame holder rings have the correct concave shape and when put in place little will be visible of the turbine blades, so in the end the counter rotating bug is not really visible only an annoying mistake from the designer.

 

 

ICM%2025RBT%2038_zpsftywm67c.jpg

 

The instruction sheet is fairly good but it has some interesting things in it. A whole page was left for a nice computer line drawing of the finished kit. It looks good but takes away space from more important information.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2040_zpsdgxxqekz.jpg

 

 

Only side views of the chosen subjects are given with just a top/bottom  view of the wings to indicate the position of the national markings. The one page space taken up by a view of a fully completed airframe could have been used to give a full top and bottom view of the painting guide. At least for one aircraft. Well they are all the same overall grey airframes so it would have been enough to give one such drawing. It would have helped with the position of natural metal panels on both top and bottom surfaces. It has to be added that the leading edge of the stabs was also rust free steel colour. And in some cases even the wings had steel leading edges.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2041_zpsvhx5xhpt.jpg

 

One advice:

As to the positioning of the stars on wing top and bottom surfaces, please note that they not always point forward! On many Foxbats (just as on many other Migs) they were painted at an angle so have a closer look at the references. There are some very good top views out there on the internet where this can be seen.

 

A fairly comprehensive selection of stencils is given in the kit. And this has already been discussed. ICM is giving blue stencils for the darker technical markings while about 96% of the Foxbats life time they were black. Why I mention this again, is simple. At Nurenberg Show Revell has presented its Foxbat kit, which is a repack of the ICM kit and it also had blue stencils. (Yee, I understand that they had an ICM kit built for presentation and they probably used the original ICM decals) I just hope that the Revell decal designers will have a closer look when preparing the stencils for the real kit.     

 

 

ICM%2025RBT%2039_zpsy4zpzx2i.jpg

 

OK I have been also doing some real work on the kit, here and there. Including the instrument panel. Some paint was added and a little detail. The ICM instrument panel was thinned down and additional three instrument faces were drilled out.

 

Will have to add some more detail with paint, some more switches and other fine parts. Weathering and a final semi gloss will seal the instrument panel.

 

 

ICM%2025RBT%2042_zpspr8ib8su.jpg

 

Work is on in other areas of the kit, but more on this next time. Hope not in a month’s time.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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3 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Hi Aigore,

I have something else in mind. :coolio:  More on this latter.

But thanks for the link! 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Exciting. Can't wait to see what it is. Great looking IP.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, Aigore said:

Oooo...exciting :D

 

Nothing really special.

I did give a try with the original kit part. Was hoping that the transparent ICM part would work as a lens. An instrument decal was put on the back side of it  (the furthers away point from the front of the instrument panel). Well it was a failure, nothing was visible even though the ICM part is crystal clear.

What I liked about the ICM part was that the transparent tubes all came out to the front of the panel and gave a nice flat glass instrument dial imitation, just like on the real aircraft.

So the question is how to add the details of the dials? Not easy! It seems that the ICM designers decided that they rather have the nice shining dial faces instead of all the microscopic details. Well it is valid, since even with an open cockpit I am not sure how much will be visible of the actual instrument faces. But the shining faces are big enough to be visible. There is no perfect or even good solution to this.

 

The instrument panel details on the plastic part look superb and when comparing them to photos of the real cockpit all the knobs and panels are authentic. It would be a shame to waste all this for a simple decal.

 

I have seen that Eduard is going to do a prepainted instrument panel but it is still just a 2D affair and the it will not reproduce all the facets and angled panel parts of the real cockpit.

Also having tried few of the Eduard instrument panels (which have some very nice details printed on them) they still could not solve the problem with the printing. The instrument faces are still layers of different paints and that shining glass surface is not reproduced.

I tried adding few layers of varnish to the back panel (which has all the instrument/dial details) or even covering it with extra thin cellophane before gluing on the front part but it was still not what I was looking for.

 

So now, the ICM instrument panel has been sanded down to paper thickness and will try to add the instruments from the back with a help from a good friend, but more on this when it happens.

 

Just a reminder of the original panel

 

ICM%2025RBT%2014_zpsfqaluelq.jpg

And when the transparent part, all those tubes are put in place

 

ICM%2025RBT%2015_zpsgz864np4.jpg

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Just a suggestions, a sheet of plasticard at the back and put decal dials onto it and a drop of clear varnish in each instrument face or if you have old instrument films like in Aires cockpit sets.

I wasn't all convinced by the look of the clear part into the instrument faces.

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On the photo above you still have the original kit clear part, the way it came from the box. I did not like it either in its original form. It was fairly good but I polished the "faces" completely flat (at the end of the "tubes") and it gave me that perfect instrument face glazing look that I was after. It is possible that I will try this solution on the other build.

 

Hope to have an update on the instrument panel soon. :rolleyes:

 

Best regards

Gabor

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On another forum question was asked about the position of the flaps and the Nuke capability of the Foxbats.

 

The flaps are about 99% of cases in up position. Yes, on some museum aircraft you will find them down (or even missing completely :angry:) but they are not operation aircraft.

The stabs were “hanging” in many cases when on the flight line but not the flaps or the ailerons. Rudders could be slightly off set, but that is all.

 

As to the nuke version. Yes, it has been mentioned in many places. One would need to have a look at the “Technical Manuals for the “Special” ordnance”  but the chances for that are very close to ZERO.

Many technical manuals are now available for the public but the chances that the Russians will declassify the manuals about the “Special” ordnance is highly unlikely! The secrecy of the documents they call “Griff” and I don’t expect that they will remove it.

As to any photos of it, anyone who has taken such pictures I am sure would have enjoyed a very long and friendly welcome from the Military Security people.

 

There are photos on the net of some Russian nuke loads in museums or the training rounds for them which were a weight and shape equivalent of the “real “ thing. For example of the nuke pylon for the MiG-21 there are few photos of it separately and even some photos when they were carried ( I mean the pylon) by Soviet AF aircraft. But to have the bomb and the pylon on the aircraft . . .

 

Speaking of the bombs, there are even very few if any photos of 25’s in real service with conventional bomb loads. Yes, you see some museum aircraft with the pylons (in some cases not even compatible with the MiG-25) and there are photos of the special Foxbat “Heat resistant” bomb (separately)  but how many photos of active service aircraft dated 70’s, 80’s with conventional gravity bombs???? None I would say. So what about the even more extreme and secret Nuke’s. No chance. In parallel: how many photos out there of Western aircraft from the same era with Nuke loads????? Not too many I would say.

 

I am sure it would have been on a centre line. As to which of the several possible stations, I don’t know but it would be easy to do some CG calculations and there would be a possibility. . .  There have been some side view drawings published of Foxbats with Nuke loads. They are fiction I would say, or if they have photographic proof of it why not publish it??? One of the drawings was showing 3 nuke bombs, one under the centre line and one each under the wings. One on centre line is likely, but the underwing ones are fiction. What would be the purpose of it, secondary and tertiary targets on the way? A kamikaze Foxbat? Or 3 bombs on one target, just in case? Remember this is not a dumb gravitational bomb and in case of a conflict the availability of ordnance would be limited, why waste 3 on one target . . .   

 

Best regards

Gabor

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  • 2 weeks later...

Look what has arrived yesterday!!!!!!  :woot.gif:   :woot.gif:   :woot.gif:

 

ICM%2025RBT%2043_zpslsfmjlz7.jpg

 

Yes, this is the Cold War Studio up-grade set (CWS 48006) for the ICM MiG-25RBT kit. I have been waiting for this for some time. To be more precise it has been in the post for almost a month. It seems that the problem is in the Hungarian Post Office and the way it is run. Something very fishy is going on. The Bulgarian Post Office was able to process the parcel and have it sent to Hungary in just 2 days. From then on some very strange things happened with it in Hungary. It took almost 20 days for the parcel to move in the inky blackness of nowhereland. Personally I think that a postman was dispatched on foot to get it as part of his training for the ultra long distance “walk around the globe” championship. Well eventually on 3rd of March the parcel did get to the central sorting office and from there to me to arrive on 6th. What an achievement!

 

ICM%2025RBT%2044_zpsc3cninno.jpg

 

Well the good thing is that it is here and while the Bulgarian side of the Postal service was working exceptionally well, the Hungarians are a heap of steaming manure. So whenever I can I will avoid them.

 

The Cold War Studio set comes in a sturdy cardboard box so the long journey fortunately did not have any detrimental effect on it. The set is well packed and protected inside the box.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2045_zpsuqdintx0.jpg

 

What we get in the set? The parts are packed in separate plastic bags for additional protection. There are two resin parts, of course the massive nose section and a small casting which has the IFF triangular antenna, the SOD antenna and the bigger blade antenna which is in front of the nose wheel bay.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2046_zpsq4fuqyyi.jpg

 

The manufacturer provides us with a masking film for the nose part, mainly for the dielectric panels but also for the search light and four additional masking circles for the camera bay windows.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2047_zpsnrgwytxl.jpg

 

Had a quick look at the nose. The casting is excellent. You may ask what difference it has in comparison with the ICM original. Well first of all the under nose bulge for the DISS-7 Doppler system is reproduced.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2049_zpscpnv7uj1.jpg

 

It is little know that on the top of the nose there is also a slight bulge which is was also reproduced. Well it is not so much a bulge but more a brake in the outline. More on the nose a but later.  

 

 

An A4 size colour instruction sheet is provided to make clear for the modeller what is what in the set.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2048_zps0ozgv6vd.jpg

 

 

As an additional bonus in the set we find a film with the instrument details. I have to say that this is one of the low points of the ICM kit. But some words have been said before about this already. Now what Cold War Studio did with the instrument face film is a perfect correction to the ICM instrument panel.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2050_zps61hnjtef.jpg

 

This is what I have been waiting for. To prepare for it, I have sanded down the back of the plastic panel for it to be as thin as possible. This way the instrument faces will be almost as close to the surface as possible.

 

ICM%2025RBT%2051_zps23pcywro.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

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  • 2 weeks later...

Very nice looking set that Cold War thing.

 

I realized I'm not that educated when it comes to non-Fighter versions of the mighty Foxbat. I've always fancied the fighter '25s and seem to know them better - until now.

 

My question thus is: is this nose correction set obligatory for all RBTs or for certain sub-versions or modifications? 

 

Can't wait to see more! 

 

PS. Excellent collection of related books you have, Gabor!

Edited by janman
Grammar
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Hi Janman,

 

Have to say that I envy you for being not so far away from an RBS version in Finland! :woot.gif: I have seen that it was moved from its original owner but I don’t know how accessible it is at its new place.  

 

Yes, I love the interceptor version much more than the bombers but the RBT’s are more and more fascinating as you get deeper into them.

 

The correction nose from Cold War Studio is for the RBT version. Only some very early RBT’s had a nose shape as given by ICM. To be precise, the early planes did not have the DISS-7 antenna and the bulge associated with it. So check your references.

 

Please also note that there are several minor differences in the nose, like the absence of the DUA angle of attack vane on some aircraft, to be precise, the vane on the bottom of the nose is missing from some aircraft production batches so once again check your references.

 

Thanks for complement about the books. The library has some books, of course I would like to have more but . . .

 

Sorry for not doing any up-dates lately but for the moment I have to do a lot of urgent work on my 1 to 1 scale parts, my museum pieces, ejection seats and all the rest. I get back as soon as possible, hope in a couple of weeks time.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Does the correction nose also fixes the upper line of the nose? ICM nose looks to be basically straight line while the actual nose has two main angles on top, ie there is a "breaking point".

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17 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Hi Janman,

 

Have to say that I envy you for being not so far away from an RBS version in Finland! :woot.gif: I have seen that it was moved from its original owner but I don’t know how accessible it is at its new place.  

 

 

Well, unfortunately it isn't so accessible anymore, since it was sold to Estonia. At least so I've read. I never managed to see it with my own eyes either.

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2 hours ago, janman said:

Well, unfortunately it isn't so accessible anymore, since it was sold to Estonia. At least so I've read. I never managed to see it with my own eyes either.

 

My information was that it was sold to a musuem in Finland. So I was wrong. I did not know that it went to Estonia. :crying:

 

Still it is an interesting airframe and it is good that it is outside Russia. I have seen some very nasty things happening in Russia to old aircraft, either scraped (in most cases) or "restored" with some far from authentic paints and bits and pieces. The Zadorozhnij museum is perhaps the only exception from this!:worship:

 

Apart from the RBS the previous owner also had a MiG-23MLD also. Was it also sold?

 

Best regards

Gabor

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1 hour ago, ya-gabor said:

 

My information was that it was sold to a musuem in Finland. So I was wrong. I did not know that it went to Estonia. :crying:

 

Apart from the RBS the previous owner also had a MiG-23MLD also. Was it also sold?

 

I'm quite sure it would have been publicized quite widely if such an aircraft was placed in a museum. "It belongs to a museum!", like Indy would say, but museums here, just like most probably there too, lack funds and the owner (as far as I've understood both MiGs were owned by a same guy) was asking quite a lot for the MLD and quite possibly asked a lot for the Foxbat as well. I would suspect the MLD is still around. 

 

It would have been cool if one of the two bigger aviation museums (the other one is here in Helsinki near the airport) would have gotten it, but the museum pieces here mostly consist of ex-AF donations and foreign planes bought for a museum are basically nonexistent.

 

Luckily I've seen a Flogger live when I visited Papa airbase some 6-7 years ago. I would have seen a lot more (incl. the graveyard near the base with rows of MiGs and Sukhois and getting inside C-17s) but due to unfortunate circumstances (Easter holiday) this opportunity collapsed.

 

Sorry for a hijack! I'm looking forward to see more of the ICM MiG when you have time!

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The MiG-25RBS was sold to Tartu Aviation Museum. Here is a link to the story

 

http://www.lennundusmuuseum.ee/en/gallery/fighters/mig-25/

 

Yes, it was one person who had all the Migs (the history of the migs is fascinating and by now almost fully retraced by Russian researchers on Russian forums), he is Mikeal Oja and as far as I know he still has the MiG-23MLD. He also has an interesting K-36DM, which was repainted into grey colour with questionable authenticity. (The K-36 seats were manufactured both at the Zvezda OKB's own factory near Moscow but also at a Soviet millitary factory which was also making air defence missiles and in both manufacturing places the K-36 seats structures were painted semigloss black!!!) so the grey seat in Finland is not really authentic.

 

I dont think the questions we talk about above are in any form "off-topics". It is all part of the history of the MiG-25 and as such very important to know as much as possible about the real aircraft which helps in building a scale replica, the kit!  It is the same with my library and any reference books which are very important when building a kit. You can say that the books are off-topics, but I believe they are a very important part of a kit building!

 

Best regards

Gabo

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Shame that we lost that MiG. Apparently someone in Estonia has money. 

 

I recently saw a picture of that seat! And was wondering about the colour, although I must say it looked almost real! Another funny thing is, I've seen another grey seat live in a local aviation book store. I guess it's still there. I don't think it's the same example. But who knows, maybe the guy got the idea for gray color from this particular seat located in an aviation book store. Although I don't know why the store seat is gray... 

 

Yeah, sure all this has some connection with the MiG-25, but I just thought I might have gotten too far with my Hungary trip stories! :) Can I ask where do you live in Hungary, Gabor, and are the Papa MiGs and Sukhois still there..?

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Is the book store seat also a K-36DM early version with the big headrest? Is it possible to get a photo of it? (two or three or even more??):woot.gif:

The grey seat also had an additional O2 bottle on its back which was not a standard feature of the seats. I would think that the seat also came from the Soviet era avitaion school where the Flogger and the FOxbat originated from so it could be a training / instructional version.

 

I am in Budapest. The aircraft at Papa were purchased by a private company from the military more than a decade ago. They sell / manufacture / trade sniper guns and amos and the aircraft were a kind of investment into some metal with the hope of selling them at a high price. The aircraft were moved out from the actual base onto a road leading into the base which was originaly a secondary dislocation area in case of war, so they were both outside and inside the base.

The company never managed to sell them (they only had the right and the license for selling them as scrap) and the cost of guarding the aircraft was very high. So eventually they started to sell them to private owners / museums / for scrap or what ever, just to get rid of them. 

 

The Suhojs and the MiG-23's are gone but there are still some MF and bis fighters around. It is a big burden for the owner and by now after close to 20 years under the open sky without servicing they are in a very bad state both outside and inside.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

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As far as I can recall, the store seat is an early DM with a big headrest. We used to live near the store so I used to visit it more often. Now I haven't been there for a couple of years. Seems I've found the joys of Amazon, especially because the price level in the store isn't always competitive. It's basically their warehouse (Aviation Shop mostly sells through internet) so the opening ours are extremely limited. When I visit them I'll try to remember to take some photos! Might take some time though.

 

Okay, just like I thought. Although good to hear some found a home and avoided scrapping. But, just like I said before, I could at least see the little collection outside the base HQ and meet MiG-23 and Mi-24 for the first time in my life. 

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