Su-27 Questions

[falcon20driver]

I'm going to be starting a Su-27UB soon, and had some questions since I know nothing about the aircraft.  I'm building the 1/32 two seater from Trumpeter.  I currently plan on the Ukrainian splinter scheme from the Linden Hill sheet.  Besides the extra seat, is there any other big differences between the dual seater and single seater?  I ask because reference pictures seem to focus on the singles.  Also, what color is the cockpit?  It seems to be a bit grey but with a tint of that Russian green/blue color too?  I know I'll have a lot more questions so any direction for helping with references would be appreciated.

[Janissary]

I came here and was just about to start a new thread on Su-27UBs myself! What a coincidence. I have a few question too but I will wait for your questions to be answered first. 

[falcon20driver]

The more the merrier.  I'm having the darndest time finding good photos of the UBs.

[Helmsman]

Have you seen this?: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/photo/viewcat_cid_429.html

[Flankerman]

Cockpit colour of Russian Flankers is light blue-grey.

 

I use Humbrol Helblau - with a few drops of grey added.

 

Here's a pic of a Su-33 cockpit - excuse my bare knees!!!

 

 

Apart from the twin cockpit/canopy, larger dorsal airbrake and bigger fins, the Su-27UB is the same as a single-seat Su-27.

 

Back in the olden days, Airfix did a Su-27 and Heller did the Su-27UB - the only difference being a new upper fuselage moulding, twin tub and seats, new canopy, new airbrake and twin fins in the Heller kit - the rest of the Airfix/Heller parts were the same.

 

Ken

[dsahling]

I used Mr Color RLM 65 for the Flanker I did about a year ago, worked out nicely.

[falcon20driver]

Thanks guys. 

[Flankerman]

Humbrol Helblau is RLM 65 - but I added a dash of grey to try and match my photo.

 

Here's a pic wot I took in the back seat of a Ukrainian Su-27UB.....

 

 

 

 

.... as you can see, it's a bit darker and 'greyer' than the Su-33 - presumably overhauled in Ukraine.

 

I wouldn't get too hung up over an exact match - the builders of the real thing obviously don't.

 

Whatever you use - don't go with the old MiG-style turquoise.

 

Ken

[falcon20driver]

Those are great photos since mine will be Ukrainian.

[Janissary]

My question is a little convoluted so apologies in advance. My two questions will be:

 

(1) Ideas for gray-tone camo.

(2) Best 1/48 kit for a two seater Su-27 or Su-30.

 

Let me specify what I am looking for, in hopes that this will help limit the options. 

- A winter camo (?) that has white and gray tones (perhaps a little bit of blue too). Some examples are here, here, and here.

- Two seater Su-27 or Su-30

- No canard version (Su-33, Su-37 etc.)

- No splinter camo, no digital camo.

- No green/brown camo.

- No China, no Indonesia markings. Open to Russia, Ukraine, Venezuela, Eritre, Angola and others. 

 

So back to my questions:

 

(1) Given the above, are there camo/marking options beyond the first two examples I linked above? I really like the Russian and Venezuela (Caracal has decals for this), but I wonder if I'm missing something uber cool. 

 

(2) What are the best kit options (existing or in the pipeline) that might be a good starting point for, say, the above Russian or Venezuelan versions? My only hope here is to avoid the Academy plastic. But, I am at a loss with Hobby Boss' new J-11B and Su-27. I know these are single seaters, but HB I think is working on the UB, is that the best option?

 

(3) What would it take to convert a Su-27UB into a Su-30MK. I roughly remember the radome base angle, refueling probe, thin tail fins etc., but I am unsure. Along the same lines, what are the differences between the MK and MK2? I see the fin tips but beyond that I could not see the difference. The reason I ask this is that I anticipate HB will put out their Su-27UB first (just a guess), and then I will want to build a Venezuelan MK2. I just cannot figure out how difficult this conversion is. 

[foxmulder_ms]

45 minutes ago, Janissary said:

My question is a little convoluted so apologies in advance. My two questions will be:

 

(1) Ideas for gray-tone camo.

(2) Best 1/48 kit for a two seater Su-27 or Su-30.

 

Let me specify what I am looking for, in hopes that this will help limit the options. 

- A winter camo (?) that has white and gray tones (perhaps a little bit of blue too). Some examples are here, here, and here.

- Two seater Su-27 or Su-30

- No canard version (Su-33, Su-37 etc.)

- No splinter camo, no digital camo.

- No green/brown camo.

- No China, no Indonesia markings. Open to Russia, Ukraine, Venezuela, Eritre, Angola and others. 

 

So back to my questions:

 

(1) Given the above, are there camo/marking options beyond the first two examples I linked above? I really like the Russian and Venezuela (Caracal has decals for this), but I wonder if I'm missing something uber cool. 

 

(2) What are the best kit options (existing or in the pipeline) that might be a good starting point for, say, the above Russian or Venezuelan versions? My only hope here is to avoid the Academy plastic. But, I am at a loss with Hobby Boss' new J-11B and Su-27. I know these are single seaters, but HB I think is working on the UB, is that the best option?

 

(3) What would it take to convert a Su-27UB into a Su-30MK. I roughly remember the radome base angle, refueling probe, thin tail fins etc., but I am unsure. Along the same lines, what are the differences between the MK and MK2? I see the fin tips but beyond that I could not see the difference. The reason I ask this is that I anticipate HB will put out their Su-27UB first (just a guess), and then I will want to build a Venezuelan MK2. I just cannot figure out how difficult this conversion is. 

 

 

You know that the camo you like is closest to Indonesian one, right? 

 

Anyhow, my suggestion will be for you to go with a heavily weathered Russian AF.  :) They can almost look white with some blue and gray on them :D Look at this thing:

 

 

This is an OK condition active flanker, you can go much bolder if you want with primer visible etc. 

 

If you really like blue, Kazakh ones can be crazy vivid!:

 

 

 

Also for the model, don't even think buying Academy ones in my honest opinion. 

 

 

 

 

[nikosmeta]

47 minutes ago, Janissary said:

My question is a little convoluted so apologies in advance. My two questions will be:

 

(1) Ideas for gray-tone camo.

(2) Best 1/48 kit for a two seater Su-27 or Su-30.

 

Let me specify what I am looking for, in hopes that this will help limit the options. 

- A winter camo (?) that has white and gray tones (perhaps a little bit of blue too). Some examples are here, here, and here.

- Two seater Su-27 or Su-30

- No canard version (Su-33, Su-37 etc.)

- No splinter camo, no digital camo.

- No green/brown camo.

- No China, no Indonesia markings. Open to Russia, Ukraine, Venezuela, Eritre, Angola and others. 

 

So back to my questions:

 

(1) Given the above, are there camo/marking options beyond the first two examples I linked above? I really like the Russian and Venezuela (Caracal has decals for this), but I wonder if I'm missing something uber cool. 

 

(2) What are the best kit options (existing or in the pipeline) that might be a good starting point for, say, the above Russian or Venezuelan versions? My only hope here is to avoid the Academy plastic. But, I am at a loss with Hobby Boss' new J-11B and Su-27. I know these are single seaters, but HB I think is working on the UB, is that the best option?

 

(3) What would it take to convert a Su-27UB into a Su-30MK. I roughly remember the radome base angle, refueling probe, thin tail fins etc., but I am unsure. Along the same lines, what are the differences between the MK and MK2? I see the fin tips but beyond that I could not see the difference. The reason I ask this is that I anticipate HB will put out their Su-27UB first (just a guess), and then I will want to build a Venezuelan MK2. I just cannot figure out how difficult this conversion is. 

 

A few years ago I did this model (it was my third model so please be kind)

 

http://www.modelclub.gr/forums/index.php/topic,25033.msg513438.html#msg513438

 

It is in greek but use google translator and follow the link If you have any more questions ask

 

Also please note that HB is releasing a Su-30MKK that will be easier to make a venezuala aircraft. I will also make venezuella aircraft and use AKAN colors that match better with the real colors

[Janissary]

10 hours ago, foxmulder_ms said:

You know that the camo you like is closest to Indonesian one, right? 

Anyhow, my suggestion will be for you to go with a heavily weathered Russian AF.  :) They can almost look white with some blue and gray on them :D Look at this thing:

Also for the model, don't even think buying Academy ones in my honest opinion. 

Thank you. Yes. In fact, I became so interested in this gray scheme because I had seen the Indonesian pics. The two-tome gray + the pentagon roundels just didn't excite me. The Venezuelan ones sure do, but as I said I want to make sure I am not missing something even better. The decrepit Russian ones like the one you showed are surely attractive, I may keep that as an option. The Kazakh colors, though catchy, are too blue for me. But thank you for the suggestions, that's what I was looking for. 

 

10 hours ago, nikosmeta said:

 

A few years ago I did this model (it was my third model so please be kind)

 

http://www.modelclub.gr/forums/index.php/topic,25033.msg513438.html#msg513438

 

It is in greek but use google translator and follow the link If you have any more questions ask

 

Also please note that HB is releasing a Su-30MKK that will be easier to make a venezuala aircraft. I will also make venezuella aircraft and use AKAN colors that match better with the real colors

I had actually seen your model during my research and I liked it a lot! I had no idea about the HB MKK though! That really made my day:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235009597-148-sukhoi-su-30mkk-flanker-g-by-hobbyboss-released/&

 

Can anyone explain what it would take to convert the HB MKK into a Venezuelan MK2?

[Flankerman]

6 hours ago, Janissary said:

Can anyone explain what it would take to convert the HB MKK into a Venezuelan MK2?

 

Put simply, there are two 'versions' of the tandem two-seat Su-30.................

 

The Su-30MKI ( I - for India) - with canards, Thrust-Vectoring Controls (TVC) engine nozzles and cropped Su-27UB-style fins but with wider chord rudders.

The same aircraft is in service with Malaysia (as the Su-30MKM), Algeria (as the Su-30MKA) and Russia (as the Su-30SM).

 

The airframes are built by Irkut/IAPO

 

The Su-30MKK (K - for Kitei/China) - no canards, no TVC but with taller, square-topped fins

The same aircraft is in service with Venezuela, Uganda, Vietnam, Indonesia and Russia - variously as the Su-30MKK/MK2

 

So, visually, the Su-30MKK is the same as the Su-30MK2 - there might be minor cockpit changes or aerial fit, but, essentially, they are the same.

 

Ken

 

PS - Saying just Su-30MK doesn't really mean anything - you need the last letter to denote precisely which variant you mean.

[Janissary]

Thank you very much, it clarifies everything!