Pappy121 Posted January 6, 2017 Author Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 hours ago, a4s4eva said: Pappy The SH-2G(NZ) is (were) original G models bought by the RNZN (they had SH-2F's for a while before that also). These were effectively standard SH-G with a few minor mods (glass AI/flight director instead of analogue and AGM-65 Maverick capabilty. They have now been replaced by the SH-2G(I) which were the RAN SH-2G(A) frames. Externally , from what I've seen the SH-2G(I) , and SH-2G(A) look identical. I don't recall an APU exhaust on the top of the tail boom of the SH-2G(A) , the APU exhaust on the SH-2G(A) / (I) looks to be in the same place as the SH-2G(NZ) and hence the same as the polish ones. The RAN intended to operate the SH-2G(A) with 2 crew only (1 pilot and 1 TACCO), and from what I remember there was very little in the back as it was intended primarily for the ASuW mission, not ASW (ASW info would be datalinked back to the ship). The 2 crew requirement of the RAN was one (of many) contributing factors to the issues they had with the aircraft. From what I understand (and I could be wrong) the RNZN are operating the SH-2G(I) with 3 crew (2 pilots and 1 crewman in the back) G'day Calum, Have a look here http://www.grubby-fingers-aircraft-illustration.com/images/Seasprite_847_05_med.jpg Note the 'normal' APU exhaust that exits on the right side of the doghouse, as well as the additional exhaust that is behind the SATCOM antenna on the tail boom. I may have been wrong when I called it an APU exhaust, perhaps it is related to the ECS, the point being that there is an additional exhaust that was on the RAN birds. You are correct, the RAN wanted to dispense with the second pilot which was a brave decision on many fronts, not the least of which was that the FCS had a know issue of control departure, combine this with low level over ops over the 'oggin and you start to ask for trouble. There are lots of other reasons as you say, and all of those are beyond the scope of this thread. cheers, Pappy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ichitoe Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 That's some nice detailing Pappy! What color are you using for the wash to dirty things up? Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Ichitoe said: That's some nice detailing Pappy! What color are you using for the wash to dirty things up? Mike G'day Mike, I have been playing around with a few different methods. I have been using pastels on the floor and sound quilting, I bought some artist pastels a long time ago. I basically rub these onto some coarse sandpaper and apply with a soft brush. I use a selection of black, brown, ochre and white. I just mix up what looks right. For the washes I am using enamel paint, in this case varying mixes of black and brown thinned with white spirit. It is not scientific, but basically I vary towards cool shades for the grey parts and used a warmer toner around the seat cushions. G'day people, I have deviated from the assembly sequence and have been working on the stores. I have not been able to get any answers on my torpedo question (posted in the helicopter modelling section) so I am going to go with a jug on each side plus the towed MAD sensor and pylon on the right. The MAD pylon is pretty straight forward and looks nice when built up, it will only require some external wiring which I will add after it is attached to the jet. KH supplies the towed MAD sensor with a solid plastic tail cone and a PE skirt with lots of perforations. It is not entirely clear (to me at least) if the PE part is supposed to be fitted over the plastic body but this would make the most sense as there back end of the PE cone would just be an open void otherwise. My references do not show the Polish navy version to have the perforations, so I decided to leave the PE skirt off. The USN versions seem to use the PE skirt. Painting the MAD sensor body was interesting due to the chequered red and yellow pattern. My references show plenty of weathering on the MAD sensor so I was able to have a little fun here I am thinking that I would like a torpedo displayed next to the jet so I started assembling the tin fish. The strap detail is very nice and restrained however the two solid discs at the back are supposed to represent the twin screws. They are crap and I would have preferred nothing at all, as at least then you don't have to remove anything before you can add the details. I also found that the nose of the torps is slightly wider than the body. I was going to sand these down to match but decided to leave these as is as they could represent the protective covers fitted over the front of torps. Air launched torps also have a parachute assembly fitted behind the twin screws, which is also missing. The discs have been sanded away cheers, Pappy Edited January 7, 2017 by Pappy121 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grandboof Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Nice work on the MAD Martin H Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a4s4eva Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) On 1/6/2017 at 0:32 PM, Pappy121 said: G'day Calum, Have a look here http://www.grubby-fingers-aircraft-illustration.com/images/Seasprite_847_05_med.jpg Note the 'normal' APU exhaust that exits on the right side of the doghouse, as well as the additional exhaust that is behind the SATCOM antenna on the tail boom. I may have been wrong when I called it an APU exhaust, perhaps it is related to the ECS, the point being that there is an additional exhaust that was on the RAN birds. cheers, Pappy Ah ok, that's on the SH-2G(I) as well. It does look ECS like. Whatever is coming out looks like it's hot. Hpefully someone will get some inside shots of the SH-2G(I) at the RNZAF Airshow this year. Edited January 7, 2017 by a4s4eva Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon20driver Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Holy crap! That MAD sensor is amazing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-ONE27 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 7 hours ago, falcon20driver said: Holy crap! That MAD sensor is amazing. AGREED!!! Shaping up to be a gorgeous build Pappy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, falcon20driver said: Holy crap! That MAD sensor is amazing. 11 hours ago, B-ONE27 said: AGREED!!! Shaping up to be a gorgeous build Pappy! Thanks very much fellas! My references show that the the jet needs an avionics rack in the rear cabin behind the SENSO. I scratched one up based on TLAR I have come to the conclusion that the aft cabin door cannot be slid back when the sonobuoy launcher cover is fitted, so the only way to see into through the SENSO's window (most of the view is blocked by the SENSO's seat) and from the front right door looking back, which limits what you can see, so I don't need to be too pedantic about accuracy as it will be dark and the viewing angles limit what can be seen. I will need to do something about the avionics boxes next. Meanwhile, I have started adding the fuselage and door windows. Most of the windows went in okay, but the SENSO window frame needed some careful sanding to get the window to sit in the frame nicely. The quarter windows popped straight into place which was very pleasing . cheers, Pappy Edited January 8, 2017 by Pappy121 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ichitoe Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Nice bit of scratch building Pappy! What glue do you use for the windows? Also, I like the dark background you use for your pics. Are you using a light box? Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ichitoe said: Nice bit of scratch building Pappy! What glue do you use for the windows? Also, I like the dark background you use for your pics. Are you using a light box? Mike G'day Mike, Thanks. I am using liquid glue. I touch the brush to the edge of the part and capillary action draws the glue around it. It is important not to adjust the part while the glue sets of some melted plastic glue can bubble out and marr the clear part, so I need to be sure the part is where I want it before I commit. I have a couple of lamps (you can see the reflections in the windows) above the cardboard background. It is quite primitive but since I usually just end up taking macro shots, it does not need to be fancy. I am not a very good photographer, the camera is a simple auto jobby, it is about 8 years old now so it will probably die now! cheers, Pappy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 G'day people, Having already built the avionics rack, I now needed to add some avionics. I used some resin details from the gash box which were modified to closer resemble my references. I will add some cables and a few more handles once the rack is installed in the aft of the cabin, Most of this will not be easily seen, which is probably for the best as my reference pictures were a little limited so it was a bit of a guess based on a couple of different angles. Most importantly, it will look like something 'busy' (but not necessarily accurate) is installed In order to keep moving forward, the main undercarriage was assembled The addition of some hydraulic lines will add a little more interest. cheers, Pappy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon20driver Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Great looking radio stack. Your are certainly a very skilled detail painter. I can't wait to see the paint on the exterior. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 6 hours ago, falcon20driver said: Great looking radio stack. Your are certainly a very skilled detail painter. I can't wait to see the paint on the exterior. That is a long way off yet, I still need to do some work on the interior. I think that once the fuselage is closed, things should go pretty quick from there, cheers, Pappy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 G'day people, A little more progress. I wired up my avionics rack and added a bench seat. The bench seat was donated by a fellow modeller (thanks Whitey!) who had one spare. The cabin is getting close to done, only a few more bits to go. I have also assembled the engine nacelles These went together effortlessly. cheers, Pappy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winnie Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Here's a reference for ya! Aside from my awesome reference, I have to say your build is amazing, wish I had half the skills! Oh well, I get to go play some tomorrow! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Winnie said: Here's a reference for ya! Aside from my awesome reference, I have to say your build is amazing, wish I had half the skills! Oh well, I get to go play some tomorrow! LoL G'day Winnie, I remember when this pic did the rounds under the title "RAN (Royal Australian Navy) finds cracks on their new Seasprite helicopters" cheers, Pappy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Oh man, that is looking real good! I like that this version supplies the SENSO station. The cabin interior looks wicked nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ichitoe Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 WOW Pappy, great looking cabin work! I really like how your washes give a nice used look. I really need to work on this technique. Looking forward to your exterior painting and weathering. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nzgunnie Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) I can confirm the additional exhaust vent is for the ECS, one of the changes between the NZ and the I. The APU is in the same place on both types, and is similar, except that the I model is actually an APU as it has a generator on it, while the NZ is really just a GTC for bleed air. Anyone wanting to build an NZ might find these images of mine useful: http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/pgarmonsway/library/Seasprite The I model is quite different to the NZ as far as antenna fit and cockpit layout. It's not a huge stretch to build an NZ from the kit, but an I model would take quite a bit more scratch building. There are a lot of little (or not so little) details missing for an NZ though, off the top of my head: Decklock; HF 9000 antenna (this is the very obvious tubular antenna that runs down the entire of the LHS of the aft fuselage); ALE-47 dispensers (there's sort of a blanked one on the RHS, nothing on the LHS for some reason); Winch boom on canted bulkhead; Radar RT in aft cabin; Troop seats in aft cabin; OTBD Weapon pylons need aft structure added; Centre lower console isn't really right as it is only one row of panels wide; FLIR hand controller; Observers mission panel, which includes ALE-47 DCDU and smoke marker control panel; INBD weapons pylons are technically F model ones, which are slightly different in shape to the NZ ones. Edited January 22, 2017 by nzgunnie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nzgunnie Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) On 5/01/2017 at 6:04 PM, Pappy121 said: The SH-2G(A) had an APU exhaust poking out of top of the tail boom aft of the doghouse, as well as a few other external features missing on the SH-2G (NZ). Have these external features have likely been deleted in NZ service i.e SH-2G(I) or do they remain as externally distinct from the SH-2G(NZ) ? Pappy The SH-2G(I) in NZ service is almost identical to the configuration they existed in when called SH-2G(A). There is a small difference in the instrument panel, with the MDLR card loader moved from the IP to behind the pilot's head and additional standby instruments added. Externally the only real difference is the addition of decklock replacing the RAN's RAST system. Currently the I is even painted the same, with the only changes to the markings being the replacement of Roo roundels with Kiwi ones, and the change in tail numbers. Currently there are some random NZ (common) parts in use on the I, such as AUX tanks, FLOT pack farings, smoke marker dispensers, nose gear box fairings and possibly even some blades. This means most I model airframes have at least one item painted in the NZ's FS26440 (light gull grey) contrasting with the Australian paint scheme. There is currently work being carried out to look at repainting the I, but I'm not privvy to the intended scheme at the moment. Edited January 22, 2017 by nzgunnie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, nzgunnie said: I can confirm the additional exhaust vent is for the ECS, one of the changes between the NZ and the I. The APU is in the same place on both types, and is similar, except that the I model is actually an APU as it has a generator on it, while the NZ is really just a GTC for bleed air. Anyone wanting to build an NZ might find these images of mine useful: http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/pgarmonsway/library/Seasprite The I model is quite different to the NZ as far as antenna fit and cockpit layout. It's not a huge stretch to build an NZ from the kit, but an I model would take quite a bit more scratch building. There are a lot of little (or not so little) details missing for an NZ though, off the top of my head: Decklock; HF 9000 antenna (this is the very obvious tubular antenna that runs down the entire of the LHS of the aft fuselage); ALE-47 dispensers (there's sort of a blanked one on the RHS, nothing on the LHS for some reason); Winch boom on canted bulkhead; Radar RT in aft cabin; Troop seats in aft cabin; OTBD Weapon pylons need aft structure added; Centre lower console isn't really right as it is only one row of panels wide; FLIR hand controller; Observers mission panel, which includes ALE-47 DCDU and smoke marker control panel; INBD weapons pylons are technically F model ones, which are slightly different in shape to the NZ ones. G'day NZ Gunnie, I was aware of most of the differences, but the one area I don't have any refs for is the aft cabin of the I model. Is there any chance of getting some pics of this area? I agree that the NZ version would not be too much of a stretch, the HF900, ALE-47 and winch are also common to the SH-2G(A) model. The pylons are also wrong for the A. "The armourer, without him there is no need for an air force" - Lord Trenchard 1 hour ago, nzgunnie said: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nzgunnie Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Good quote, one of my favourites. The outboard weapon pylons aren't any more wrong for the I, than they are for the NZ. That is they are missing the rear support structure, which is the triangular shaped bracket that sticks out the rear end. The NZ and I have different support structures (the I being larger and more solid to support the Penguin Wing Lanyard System), but since the pylon is missing it, scratch building one is no harder than the other. You see the outboard pylons have two basic configurations: Penguin, and Torpedo. The Torpedo configuration uses the short forward fairing which is identical to the NZ forward fairing. If you want to model the Penguin configuration, than yes, the kit pylons are wrong in that they require the longer forward fairing the covers the Penguin Umbilical Release Unit. I will see if I have any images of the cabin, but I don't think I have any I can post on the internet. The inside of the I model is notable for the individual crash worthy seats that replace the NZ (and F model) canvas seats and troop seats. Also there is no Radar RT in the rear like their is in the NZ, so apart from the seats the rear cabin is basically empty. Edited January 22, 2017 by nzgunnie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stakor Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Excellent job !!! :) Are you going to make a hoist? If you want to make doors opened hoist would be required... To do this you would have to correct bulkhead as there is no space for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pappy121 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 On 27/01/2017 at 0:15 AM, stakor said: Excellent job !!! :) Are you going to make a hoist? If you want to make doors opened hoist would be required... To do this you would have to correct bulkhead as there is no space for it. G'day Stakor, Thanks very much. I was thinking about this issue a few days ago need I need to think how to remedy this. I think the easiest way is to shave off the upper corner of the forward bulkhead, but this will not be easy with the seat already installed. G'day people, I have added a little more to the cabin. My references show that there is some webbing installed on the right and aft cabin walls. I decided the easiest way to reproduce this was to use thins trips of masking tape. Most of the webbing will not be seen so I was not too fussy about getting it absolutely correct. Just a few more bits to go and I can hopefully close up the fuselage, cheers, Pappy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ice225 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 What else can I say than: "Great work!" Especially your painting skills are awesome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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