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11bee

Very cool Blackhawk!

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Glad to see the Army is letting the boys pimp out their rides a bit.  If you squint hard enough, you can see a "punisher" skull on the grey portion of the engine cowling.   Gotta like the skull logo on the cargo door as well.  This picture was just taken a couple of days ago in Mosul, Iraq.   I was actually pumped to ask Floyd Werner to put out some decals on this bad boy but with the apparent demise of Cobra, my hopes of building this helo are now crushed.   Anyone have any details on what the deal is with all the grey paint?  Also, it's real hard to tell but is that a standard M240 MG or something else?   All in all, quite the interesting bird.

 

f-mosul-a-20170106-870x425.jpg

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Huh! Grey and CARC all on the same bird. ON A NEW M AT THAT! 

That bird has been flown hard and put away wet or the Army is experimenting again! 

Couldn't see the skull though!

Back in the 80's, our birds in the 82nd Aviation Battalion were "pimped out".

The nose of the helos had the AA patch on the front while the cowlings had either a hawk for A company and B company had a caveman. All of the artwork was obviously in black.

You're right 11bee, that is a pretty cool hawk!

 

Tim

 

 

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1 hour ago, hawkwrench said:

 

Couldn't see the skull though!

 

I found a slightly higher res picture but can't seem to link it.  In it, you can make out the Punisher skull on the grey cowling. If you look close out the pic above, you can kinda see the outline of the skull and the eyes.

 

This appears to be a full fledged paint job and not just some water-based temporary paint that the troops were fooling around with since they took the time to apply "United States Army" over the grey.  Love to know the backstory behind this one.  

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Very interesting indeed.  Of note, it is not a UH-60M though.  It is a UH-60L with upturned exhaust installed.  Look at the standard step sponson under the pilot's door and the straight rotor blades; both L features.

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The fresh CARC touch ups looks like they made straight patterns. Check the sliding door and the tail. Great reference for a model!

 

Rod.

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On 1/6/2017 at 2:29 PM, salvador001 said:

The fresh CARC touch ups looks like they made straight patterns. Check the sliding door and the tail. Great reference for a model!

 

Rod.

I was thinking that Rod.  I know lighting does strange things with colors but I really don't think that Hawk is a mix of very weathered / fresh CARC.   It definately has some very fresh CARC on in it but I think the color on the engine cowl, troop door and fuselage is something different.  Can't believe the Army would let the boys play around with this, especially in a combat zone.  Very strange.

 

Here is a slightly higher res version I found.  You can make out the skull on the cowling.  Anyone know what that light colored panel is right above the tailwheel?  Also, it almost looks like the crew member in front has his helmet painted in the same grey color.

 

  Image result for US Army Blackhawk mosul, iraq 2017

Edited by 11bee

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I think that replacement engine panel is off a retired AF bird, because it's Gunship Gray every day...

 

Jeff

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On 1/6/2017 at 5:40 AM, hawkwrench said:

Back in the 80's, our birds in the 82nd Aviation Battalion were "pimped out".

The nose of the helos had the AA patch on the front while the cowlings had either a hawk for A company and B company had a caveman. All of the artwork was obviously in black.

 

Tim

 

 

Last time I saw some 82nd -60s in mid-2009, those markings were back.  The bird I saw had the cavemen on the engine cowling, and the medivac bird had the Firebird design from a Trans-Am hood.  I'll have to dig through my files for them.

 

Also, that bird has the extra antenna for the enhanced commo suit, like a mini-C2 bird.

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 8:43 AM, 11bee said:

I was thinking that Rod.  I know lighting does strange things with colors but I really don't think that Hawk is a mix of very weathered / fresh CARC.   It definately has some very fresh CARC on in it but I think the color on the engine cowl, troop door and fuselage is something different.  Can't believe the Army would let the boys play around with this, especially in a combat zone.  Very strange.

 

Here is a slightly higher res version I found.  You can make out the skull on the cowling.  Anyone know what that light colored panel is right above the tailwheel?  Also, it almost looks like the crew member in front has his helmet painted in the same grey color.

 

  Image result for US Army Blackhawk mosul, iraq 2017

 

I dunno what the deal is with this paint, but, I'll say this.  If you look under the forward flare bucket, you will see a "splash" pattern where it appears the CARC is coming through whatever is on top of it.  Also, behind the bottom of the door and above that blade antenna just ahead of the forward flare bucket.  And if you look on the sliding door's rearmost window, the grey is fading into CARC almost like a wet surface drying in the rain.  Under the cockpit looks similar.  There are patches of grey/CARC on a couple places on this bird that are odd for sure.  Why, I dunno.  One of you guys is gonna have to figure that out.  But, my .02 is that it seems the grey is on top of the CARC and is almost washing away.  Look under the "ARMY".  Looks like it's something applied over the CARC.  Maybe the "splash" pattern under the flare bucket is oil, but, it doesn't explain the rest of the wear pattern on the grey.  Edit:  I will say, the light grey sections, while viewing them on my desktop that I do photos on, really look like VERY faded CARC, like you see on old birds on sticks or outside the museum at Rucker.  Screens can vary.  It would explain to me why the "splash" looks like green CARC to me while the dry parts look grey-ish.

 

Edited by BrittMac
more opinions

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6 hours ago, BrittMac said:

...the light grey sections, while viewing them on my desktop that I do photos on, really look like VERY faded CARC, like you see on old birds on sticks or outside the museum at Rucker.  Screens can vary.  It would explain to me why the "splash" looks like green CARC to me while the dry parts look grey-ish.

 

I tend to agree with the above.  To me, it looks like the aircraft has been partially repainted and some of the older, faded CARC Green was left in place for some reason.  If you look at the upturned exhaust sections, they look like new CARC Green since they were probably added recently as they are replacing the HIRRSS exhaust across the Army.  The engine cover was probably left since it has the skull artwork on it.  It also looks like they taped off the cargo door to look like a skull as well.   The tailboom could be that we are seeing new panels around the tailwheel, where the serial numbers are, 45 degree gearbox cover, and under the stabilator.  The rest looks like faded CARC Green.  Look at the antenna panel on the front of the vertical tail as well; it is really faded.  The dark sprays around the flare buckets and under the nose look like oil sprays to me. 

Edited by HeavyArty

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I guess I have to agree with Heavy and Britt Mac.  Really is no other answer.  I'll write it off to a combo of very faded CARC with a lot of new touchups / perfect lighting to accentuate the old CARC and some very bored and creative troops.   Would still love to build this helo but alas, no more UES resin bits from Cobra.  Hoping someone purchases all the CC molds and keeps popping out the parts and/or we finally get a decent 1/35th Hawk kit with the UES. If we do, Floyd hopefully will step up with some decals for this monstrosity. 

 

Still looks like the crewman standing near the cargo door has a grey helmet though...

 

 

Edited by 11bee

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That is faded CARC.  I have seen that a lot.  Every lot of CARC paint has a different hue and fades differently.  I remember seeing this color (even more grey) in ships that originally painted in Germany.  I was told the paint was more environmentally friendly.  The only differencet I saw was that it faded to a very light greenish grey. 

Edited by huey_crew_chief

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There are two types of CARC paint.  One that was used in the US which was gritty and VERY dark green, US ARMY HELICOPTER GREEN Acrylic in the Model Master paint line, then there was another paint that was smooth and much greyer, US ARMY HELICOPTER GREEN Enamel in the Model Master line.  We had one Cobra that was repainted in Europe, Belgium I think, and that one came back to us with the smooth greyer paint but was CARC and FS34031.  I don't see how but that is what they said it was.  We named it the 'Grey Ghost', 952' if I remember it correctly, it was so noticeably different in color and shade. 

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Gray patchy touchups and fading:

 

887209-E-FYI94-652.jpg

 

hires_131017-A-SM524-244a.jpg

 

151028-Z-NI803-137.JPG

 

933945-A-RXC57-015.jpg

 

 

913161-P-PTD95-531.jpg

 

160505-Z-CQ136-010A.JPG

 

160427-A-PX354-066.JPG

 

160427-A-PG801-008A.JPG

 

John Hairell

(tpn18@yahoo.com)

 

 

 

 

Edited by FM-Whip

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Came across a pic of a recently deployed -60 in Afghanistan here:

 

https://warisboring.com/how-to-lose-the-war-in-afghanistan-a16ab6336f95#.l1yx7no4j

 

The paint job is pretty basic but I noted that the helo has a full suite of laser warning sensors.  Don't think I've seen too many hawks with these installed.  Especially in Afghanistan where they tended to remove unnecessary gear to save weight.   Wonder if they are needed due to the introduction of a new threat?   Anyone seen these mounted on other non-SOAR hawks?   Any aftermarket options for these?

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The Army for the most part only installs the full defensive suite for downrange operations. A downrange aerial port had a holding yard where birds were fitted with their defensive systems prior to being mission ready.

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5 minutes ago, Clinstone said:

The Army for the most part only installs the full defensive suite for downrange operations. A downrange aerial port had a holding yard where birds were fitted with their defensive systems prior to being mission ready.

Just never saw laser warning gear on any regular army helo in either Afghanistan or Iraq.  The equip has been out there for some time, that's why I thought the linked pic was interesting.    

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I recently saw an Army medevac L model from the 228th at Ilopango airshow.  You will not believe how is the paint of that bird. Some parts have been touch up with fresh CARC but handbrushed, I noticed she has the new laser detectors too. If you want photos, let me know. Took bunch of them.

 

Rod.

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

Just never saw laser warning gear on any regular army helo in either Afghanistan or Iraq.  The equip has been out there for some time, that's why I thought the linked pic was interesting.    

 

Must be a new thing then because all of the Blackhawks I saw over the last year in Afghanistan had them.

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6 hours ago, salvador001 said:

I recently saw an Army medevac L model from the 228th at Ilopango airshow.  You will not believe how is the paint of that bird. Some parts have been touch up with fresh CARC but handbrushed, I noticed she has the new laser detectors too. If you want photos, let me know. Took bunch of them.

 

Rod.

Would love to see those pics.  Post away.    

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Backing up what Hawkwrench said about 82nd CAB cowling markings. They still had them when my sister was deployed again in 2012 for her 2nd tour Ghazni province this time.

 

32197984803_d1f43acc3e_b.jpg

 

CARC just always has been nasty hasnt it? I was never a fan but looking at its natural ability to retain everything from water to grease to uneven fading it does provide a sort of by-product camouflage. Great images for how to weather these.

32857914632_641d594d32_b.jpg

Edited by snake36bravo

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Just noticed that HH-60M had the crew chief hanging out the window with an M4. Why can't the Army get with the times and put door guns on their MEDEVAC birds?

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1 hour ago, Clinstone said:

Just noticed that HH-60M had the crew chief hanging out the window with an M4. Why can't the Army get with the times and put door guns on their MEDEVAC birds?

The Army wants to.  The MedEvac community does not and refuses to.  Their reasoning is that if they have armed helos, they can and will be used for other missions besides MedEvac.  Commander's will abuse them and have them doing other missions that will take away from their primary MedEvac mission.  They (the MedEvac community) are fine with using M4s and other handheld weapons for self defense and having armed escorts provide a wider defense for their ops.  They see it as the ground commanders' responsibility to secure the LZ and provide escorts as needed.

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Which is why I've seen POI 9-Lines take more than 6 hours to execute on because the LZ is not secure. Then again, I'm a bit biased having four GAU-18s in the formation for defense.

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