breadneck Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Looks like i spent one too many hours last night looking around for the "white 1" scheme from the old 1992 Hasegawa FW 190 D9 kit. I wanted to get some corrobberating crossreference done up front of deciding on the scheme to go with for my kit, but all i seemed to end up with was a good portion of contradictions. The AP6 kit depicts the Dora in flight above an P-47 and the characteristic red belly with the white stripes tell tale signs for the german gunners to hold their fire. I always quite fancied this particular subject, but now i am having a really hard time with myself deciding what to do. Should i go ahead and build "white 1" even with the knowledge this is fictitious?! https://www.scalemates.com/kits/120689-hasegawa-51306-focke-wulf-fw-190-d-9 The larger scale Hasegawa kits with the same boxart call out "Sachsenberg schwarm" but from looking around i believe the white number one was actually red 1/3 and the spinner was yellow. I guess some manufacturers prefer to apply their own artistic license with kit decals. So how about yourselves, ever built a fictitious scheme kit just because you really liked the look of it ? Edited April 11, 2017 by breadneck typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lancer512 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Seems like Hasegawa took a liberate amount of artistic license, there. I've built a Ho 229 in completely fictious desert markings, just because it looked so cool. So why not. But be prepared for some criticism if you show your model to modelers with knowledge or in public. You could even paint the bottom white with black stripes to match the white 1 as a "What if". In the end, it is your model. If you like the look of it, then do it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Yeah it does seem they leaned heavily on their creative side. Maybe they should consider doing a japanese luft 46 range to help boost their position on the open market. There were a lot of japanese -46 types that hasn`t been catered for by others than the Czech cottage industry and the japs arent exactly known to disapprove of animated figures or science fiction. They don`t make many new toolings anymore do they? I can`t help wonder what other kits out there posess the same amount of "ingenuity" I do have a Hasegawa twin 111, but that one is stated as being fictitious so a nobrainer right there. With the constant debating over the various RLM schemes and tonal variations, i am very happy to announce this really doesn`t mean all that much to me. Like someone on here said, it`s more the case of semantics. Tomatoes or tomaters :) I think the main issue with the Dora kit i referred to is the difference between the red white underbelly schemes and the other much less striking schemes. But i wasn`t kicking off this topic purely for the sake of 190s. I`d love to hear of other examples i am unaware of. Promise i won`t bite.. Edited January 22, 2017 by breadneck tyop Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D Bellis Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 There were four (known) Fw 190Ds of the "Sachsenberg Swarm", and all had red numerals with white outlines: 4 (Fw 190D-11), 1, 3, 13 (fw 190D-9s). All had yellow spinner caps with black aft portions. Much more information has come to light since Hasegawa released that boxing in 1992. At least they went with the correct red undersides striped in white, because it wasn't long before that their undersides were thought to have been black with white stripes... These decals provide all you need to make it happen, and also a good bit of accurate documentation: http://www.eagle-editions.com/eaglecals-14-dora-of-the-galland-circus.html HTH, D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Oh really, i didn`t realize there were so few of the red belied Doras. Luftwaffe fighters sporting b/w invasion stripes, well that`s a laugh. Trying to deceive the opposition into thinking they were friendly? Well that certainly makes these red/white Doras a bit more interesting. Amusingly, my japanese Aero Detail reference book about the Dora has a black white picture of the Sachsenberg "white 1" and the text tells of an accompanying white/red spinner. The Dora booklet was issued in 1990 but my copy is a 2006 apparently unrevised example. Also, the vintage Heller Spitfire XVIe springs to mind. Has some vivid green D @ GE squadron codes, but they`re supposed to be white. Ironically this one`s been collecting dust on my shelf for more than 20 years now, but still as green as ever. http://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/previews/heller/80282.htm Edited January 19, 2017 by breadneck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) disregard. Edited January 19, 2017 by jester292 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 DISREGARDED. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Here's my build. Used Eaglecals, and information from Jerry Crandall's excellent 2 volume series on the Dora. IIRC, this is the Eduard kit. This model of course is a D-11. (Note outer wing guns, and lack of cowl guns.) The decal sheet includes the original airplane nu,mber, in full strength. I gently sanded that down, while still on the decal sheet, then applied 2 coats of decal maker fluid to give it body, before I cut it from sheet. Then, the red 4 was applied over it, in the manner of the real plane. Note the black spinner with yellow cap. I painted the bottom white, and used 1/8 in tape strips to mask off the stripes, then painted it Model Master Guards Red. The upper camo colors were WEM (Colorcoats) enamels, RLM82 & 83 over MM Blue 76. Edited January 19, 2017 by Hal Marshman Sr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D Bellis Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, breadneck said: Oh really, i didn`t realize there were so few of the red belied Doras. Smith & Creek made a case for a possible 5th aircraft of the Swarm in their Fw 190 volumes from Classic Publications. But, they only provide one grainy photograph and some speculation. Possible, but not yet conclusively proven. The point of my previous post is that the Hasegawa scheme is NOT fictitious. They merely botched the details of the scheme due to inadequate information available to them at the time. Back to your original point, I find it hard to imagine that anyone would completely trust kit instructions for any colors, schemes, or even camo patterns given how often they ALL tend to botch things so horribly. A quick Googling session can usually sort out the correct information in just a matter of minutes. But, does box art inspire builds? Sure! That's what it's there for. D Edited January 19, 2017 by D Bellis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) On 1/19/2017 at 11:32 PM, D Bellis said: Smith & Creek made a case for a possible 5th aircraft of the Swarm in their Fw 190 volumes from Classic Publications. But, they only provide one grainy photograph and some speculation. Possible, but not yet conclusively proven. The point of my previous post is that the Hasegawa scheme is NOT fictitious. They merely botched the details of the scheme due to inadequate information available to them at the time. Back to your original point, I find it hard to imagine that anyone would completely trust kit instructions for any colors, schemes, or even camo patterns given how often they ALL tend to botch things so horribly. A quick Googling session can usually sort out the correct information in just a matter of minutes. But, does box art inspire builds? Sure! That's what it's there for. D Certainly might not be an act of premeditation from Hasegawa, nevertheless (is that one word??) if it`s not factual, then what is it? In my opinion it is fictitious because it is not factual however much effort was put into the final product. Amusing to see this more recent Hasegawa D 9 boxing and how they changed it ;-) https://www.scalemates.com/kits/136746-hasegawa-00722-focke-wulf-fw190d-9-jv44 This box art does not inspire me to build it, however the old "white 1" does, lol... Edited January 22, 2017 by breadneck typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D Bellis Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 So, the colors given for the numbers and the spinner cap make the entire scheme fictitious in your eyes? Ok. Have it your way. D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Entire, that`s your choice of words not mine. As long as the instructions does not reflect the correct scheme, it is no longer factual. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D Bellis Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Again, have it your way. D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 Well i always was a sucker for BK :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 On 1/19/2017 at 10:04 AM, Hal Marshman Sr said: I gently sanded that down, while still on the decal sheet, then applied 2 coats of decal maker fluid to give it body, before I cut it from sheet. I like that! I'm keeping that in mind should I ever get a chance to try it out-thanks for sharing Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stona Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 What anyone does with their model is entirely up to them. However, there were five Doras known to have served with the Platzschutzstaffel of JV 44. Some are better known and more photographed than others, but we have a fair idea how they looked (Reds I, 3 and 13 were extensively photographed, Reds 2 and 4 not so much). For anyone wanting to accurately model one of these aircraft, the information is available. Just saying :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Bear in mind, 2 of those birds were D-11s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breadneck Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Mind in beard, check ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stona Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 On 08/02/2017 at 11:29 PM, Hal Marshman Sr said: Bear in mind, 2 of those birds were D-11s. Indeed, Reds 2 and 4 are not options for a D-9. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jester292 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Eduard includes Rote 4 in their 1:48 Fw 190D-11/13 Dual Combo kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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