Chris L Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 A question for the paint people . I converted from Enamels to Acrylics years ago and I must say that Gunze H series has become my favorite more so than Tamiya or others. I realize that they are disappearing from the meager ( US ) and now Gunze is producing something called Acrylion . I have not found a lot of info on this yet but I am curious as it is supposed to at least be water soluble . ( We know how that goes ) Does anyone here have any inputs on this new paint , IE: does it work with other Japanese made Acrylics Ect . Regards, Christian . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Are you talking about the acrysion? According to mr.hobbies site, you can thin with water so I would say I wouldn't mix with other Japanese brand acrylics. Edited January 20, 2017 by randypandy831 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 3 hours ago, randypandy831 said: Are you talking about the acrysion? According to mr.hobbies site, you can thin with water so I would say I wouldn't mix with other Japanese brand acrylics. Yes, the Acrylions paints are the question . I read about the comment about water, but those comments were also made with the original Tamiya acrylics and Gunze H series paint. That however is the thing that works the least . Gunze leveling thinner is the best thinner I have found for the other paints and Acrylion also has a proprietary thinner as well. I don't mean to sound snooty but I would prefer some practical experience with this paint as evidence of what it can or will do. Although they stated water, it did not mention weather it was airbrushed or hand brushed. If no one knows, I'm back to buying and experimenting . Best regards, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Oh no, you aren't being snooty. It seems alot of folks in the states use the mr.color line as I do as well. Edited January 21, 2017 by randypandy831 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 I hope they work as good as the others but till I try them ,or someone else tries them they will be a bit mysterious . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randypandy831 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 did they discontinue the aqueous line? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, randypandy831 said: did they discontinue the aqueous line? That's what I have been reading for a couple of years now but so far, I have been able to find them in Asia and bring them in. It does seem that they are becoming harder to locate . That's the reason I'm curious about their new line of paint . I have never tried the Mr.color line as they are lacquer based . Seems like I would be defeating my original purpose. Surely someone has tried tried by now . Just a matter of finding some feedback . Cheers, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardL Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 On 1/21/2017 at 5:39 PM, Chris L said: It does seem that they are becoming harder to locate . That's the reason I'm curious about their new line of paint . You can still order the entire line of Gunze aqueous paints from the states here: http://www.1001modelkits.com/2023-gunze-paint-acrylic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 It seems that they changed the formula a bit. I used to thin it with isopropyl alcohol but now some colors clog my airbrush. At least, tire black does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Are you referring to the Acrylion line of paints or the Gunze H series ? I use the Mr.leveling thinner for the Gunze & Tamiya paints and never have any issues , although I thin them a good bit and make multiple passes . Drug store 91% alcohol also works very well for flat coats . Cheers, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I'm confused. H is Aqueous line. I'm talking about newer Acrysion which is N. Never had any problem with H line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 13 hours ago, Chris L said: I use the Mr.leveling thinner for the Gunze & Tamiya paints I'm confused now, too. This stuff? Because that's the thinner for Mr. Color*. In which case... why wouldn't you just use Mr. Color? I mean, in terms of toxicity, all three paints are going to be pretty much the same: the problem isn't getting poisoned from swallowing the paint, it's particulate buildup in the lungs from inhaling the atomized paint, and all three use acrylic polymers, just with different solvents. The only practical difference for airbrushing is that thinning with water or alcohol doesn't create lingering odors. But if you're already using lacquer thinner to thin the paint, you're getting the same bad fumes as you would if you were using Mr. Color. So, since Aqueous is just as bad for you, and the smell is the same since you're using lacquer thinner... why not just use the more readily available lacquers? *it works well with the Aqueous line, but it's designed for Mr. Color. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 I am not a chemist , so I am not able to answer the complicated questions . When I first started down the road of using Acrylic , the Gunze H series where available . Latter, the Tamiya bottles became available so I tried those . As a matter of thinning I have experimented with water , Windex , Tamiya X-20A , Tamiya lacquer thinner, Mrcolor thinner 110 , Mr color leveling thinner , and 91% alcohol . My best results are with Gunze H thinned with the leveling thinner with the 91% alcohol being the second best . These paints must not be true Acrylics or they should thin out with water . That is one reason I am curious about the N line . What is it really and what can be used to spray it ? I have never had any Mr.color paint . None of those products have ever been readily available to me. By the way, when I airbrush , the respirator is on and the exhaust fan is on . I would recommend that to anyone . Cheers, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 On 1/21/2017 at 6:39 PM, Chris L said: I have never tried the Mr.color line as they are lacquer based . Seems like I would be defeating my original purpose. If your original purpose was related to health and safety, or eliminating smelly chemicals, then with all due respect, if you're thinning Aqueous Hobby Color with lacquer thinner, you are defeating it anyway. It poses exactly the same health risks and creates the same odour as simply spraying Mr. Color in the first place. The only difference is that with Aqueous Hobby Color, you can run water or alcohol through your airbrush to help clean it out; with Mr. Color, you would need to use lacquer thinner. If your problem is that Aqueous Hobby Color is getting harder to find (hence looking at Acrysion), then Mr. Color is readily available from a number of US vendors and, due to the specific way you are already using your paint, would be an almost direct substitute for you. Like, with the possible exception of cleanup, if someone swapped out your paint for Mr. Color and you did everything exactly the same way you normally do, you wouldn't notice much/any difference. From the reviews and comments I've read, Acrysion would be more different from Aqueous Hobby Color (based on your current practices). http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=241364&page=1 http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234999478-gsi-acrysion-review/ 1 hour ago, Chris L said: These paints must not be true Acrylics or they should thin out with water . Acrylic refers to the binder, not the thinner. Acrylic ≠ water. You can actually buy water-thinnable oil paints and water-thinnable lacquers. Meanwhile, your car is painted with an acrylic basecoat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Sorry for the slow reply. Health issues was not my reason for switching from enamels to acrylics. That decision was driven by local supply . Now There is no local supply, so I am using what I have learned to work with. Again , the supply chain might be disrupted , so I am trying to get a look at what the market will be and how to use it. Meanwhile, I have acquired a good stock of Tamiya/Gunze H and I'm trying to figure out if the acrylions can be mixed with the others paints and thinners . This way I can have a strategy for future paint jobs. Cheer , Christian I am not a chemist , so I am not able to answer the complicated questions . When I first started down the road of using Acrylic , the Gunze H series where available . Latter, the Tamiya bottles became available so I tried those . As a matter of thinning I have experimented with water , Windex , Tamiya X-20A , Tamiya lacquer thinner, Mrcolor thinner 110 , Mr color leveling thinner , and 91% alcohol . My best results are with Gunze H thinned with the leveling thinner with the 91% alcohol being the second best . These paints must not be true Acrylics or they should thin out with water . That is one reason I am curious about the N line . What is it really and what can be used to spray it ? I have never had any Mr.color paint . None of those products have ever been readily available to me. By the way, when I airbrush , the respirator is on and the exhaust fan is on . I would recommend that to anyone . Cheers, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winnie Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 @MoFo: There is a Mr. Hobby Color thinner 400 as well, smells harsher than tamiya X20A but is for the acryllic range. I love the Mr Hobby Acryllic line (H) colors, and wish I could get them more easily. Tamiya colors are nice too, but you have to mix some colors which I find tedious and I liked better being able to find the correct paint with a scroll through my paints. Cheers H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fayfaychu Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Chris, I wrote this up a while ago. Have a look: The N line is completely new. In short, it must be diluted with its own solvent and nothing other than that. Water is not an ideal dilutant. Cleaning can be done with water, although a thorough cleaning will require the specific cleaner or lacquer thinners. Practice a bit before you airbrush on the model first because it behaves differently than the H line. Mainly dont do a heavy coat, and instead have very very thin coats and build up layers. Some Japanese claimed to lay down 12-13 layers for their white, which is very translucent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Thanks for the info guys. It looks like I'll have to press on with the current plan and wait to see if the N line develops into something useful in the military categories. If not, I may have to branch out more into the Vallejo and AK series of paints which so far still seem to be somewhat problematic with airbrushing . Cheers, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fayfaychu Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Chris, I think the N line suits very well for those who wont be doing a lot of colour mixing and want a tough finish. They now have quite a wide range of paint for military use and I have bought almost all of them, just maybe your LHS doesnt stock them yet. Personally I have found the latest formula of Vallejo Model air suits my needs very well already and may just stick with them for now. I did a bit mixing and find out that Vallejo and the N line indeed mix, but not that well for modeling use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris L Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 Good info . I have a good deal of the older Vallejo paints and they are certainly good for brush painting . I have used the model color and the air for airbrushing but they do have a tendency to cause some clogging while the spraying just as the AK paints do. Most likely have not got the additives quite right yet . Although these paints appear dry over a short time span they need a good deal of time to be cured enough for handling without rubbing through them . ( need more patience here ) Cheers, Christian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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