1/48 Hasegawa A-4F VA-93

[ziggyfoos]

47 minutes ago, Janissary said:

Parts of interest are 137, 138, 82, and 156. For 137/138, Hasegawa gives a single clear part. On the real thing, are these supposed to be two different sections like in the above link? Also, what is the color of these sections (underneath the clear part if they are clear)? I am planning to attach this part soon, but I would like to paint the underneath mating surface with an appropriate color if the part is going to remain clear. Also, if there are any light bulbs or something, I may carve that out into the clear plastic from the bottom side, which has to happen before I can attach it. I'm guessing 138 should be clear but 137 may not be. I could not find any close up images of this section except for museum Skyhawks. I'm not sure if the museum restorations are accurate enough to go by.

 

Same question for 82 and 156. Are these clear lenses (looks to be) and if so what is the underneath color? 82 I think is a red light but not sure if the clear casing is red, or if it is transparent but there is a red light bulb inside it. For 156, I'm guessing it will be a clear part with a silver-like base color? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

The whole lens of 82 is red, as looks the left wing nav lens, and bluish-green right lens on the right wing.

 

The left wing approach light lens should be clear but in most period photos it can look very dingy and dark from depth inside:

 

For what you need, 76/77 and 137/138 are reversed, the nav lights would be to the rear, the antenna fairings are forward. The antenna fairings look in period photos to be silvery or grey (to dark grey) in color, I'm not sure if they were that color or if they were actually clear that just looked dark from grime and inside shadow like the approach light does in photo above? Someone else can chime in with correct answer on that.

Here's right wings examples:

 

oops, forgot left wing (showing red lens):

Edited March 4, 2017 by ziggyfoos
forgot left wing

[Superheat]

It's not an "antenna fairing" it is a second position light that is neon while the rear one is a conventional filament type bulb.  The cover for the filament  bulb is red on the left, green on the right, but the cover for the neon bulb is clear.  Both bulbs are visible, the neon bulb runs the length of the housing, the filament bulb attaches at the rear.  I don't have a great shot of either wing, this is about the best I've got.  Next time I get near an A-4 I will photograph it close up.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

[ziggyfoos]

Interesting, thanks. So is it a formation light? 

 

[Janissary]

Tom, Ziggy, thank you very much for the info. Very useful. I think I have clarity with the red/green formation lights. But the neon cover Tom mentioned still seems somewhat opaque (dirt and grime?), is this so? 

 

Incidentally,  anybody with ideas about how to best replicate such powered-off formation lights in general? My observations so far (say for a red formation light):

 

(1) Painting the underneath mating surface or hub in red and adding the clear part on top looks a little unrealistic, especially if in reality the cover itself is red.

(2) Painting the cover with a silver base followed by clear red creates a nice effect but is too bright and unrealistic (looks like it is powered on).

(3) Painting the cover with dark grey or black (gloss or matte), followed by clear red: Never tried this but the base color would look too saturated removing the illusion of a colored plastic cover (I think). From a distance, real formation lights look like this anyway when off, so perhaps this could work?

(4) Painting over the clear part directly with a thin layer of darkened clear red or pure red: Never tried it and cannot predict how it would look.

 

Would any of the above work? I'd be interested in seeing examples of successful attempts at this. It's been on my mind for quite a few years, but couldn't come up with a good solution thus far. 

[a4s4eva]

The leading edge wing wing light lens lost it's clarity from erosion. so you could rough it up with a sanding stick. I believe it was only ever used on carrier based aircraft. Ours (RNZAF) were often painted over, especially in post Kahu aircraft. I never changed a light in that position so our aircraft they may not have even been fitted.

 

The red and green lens were actually red and green plastic. IIRC the light inside was a clear fluro like tube that lit the whole assembly. There were actually 2 lights , one for the forward clear light and another for the rear red (or green)  position light. The little clear position light on the lower surface didn't have it's own bulb but got it's light from the one above it which was a normal incandescent . The whole wingtip (the lighter green area in the image below) was changed when there was a fault bigger than a light bub change for the coloured position light.

 

I think the clear paints are a OK representation of the colours, perhaps a little bright but not far off  (and no more unrealistic that bright and clear canopies). If anything I'd make the position light flat not glossy, and perhaps add a drop of black.  That said I'm happy when kit manufacturers don't mould coloured lights separately in clear. In 1/48 scale these things are pretty tiny. 

 

But if you're not happy why haven't you tried some of your suggested methods. If you use Mr Hobby/ Mr Color or Tamiya paints and you're not happy you can simply wipe the paint off with Mr Color thinners?

 

 

 

 

 

There's another 1330 or so images here
 

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by a4s4eva
Updated after seeing post below

[Finn]

Here is what the inside of the light looks like without the cover:

 

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/isaac_gershman/a-4e/images/a-4e_16_of_24.jpg

 

Jari

Edited March 5, 2017 by Finn

[Janissary]

Thank you very much for all the info. I've been plowing through the build. Deepened all panel lines and rivets (black marks) and later fixed the deep scratches caused by the scribing needle. A little bit of smeared bondo, followed by cleaning the panel lines before it sets works well for these fixes:

 

I applied a strip of gold tape at the wingtip,  then attached the clear part: 

 

 

There was a gap between the upper/lower forward wings after moving the slat well upwards, so filled it with sheet styrene:

 

A few details removed around the front gear well to aid alignment:

[Janissary]

A few more progress shots. Masked the wingtip lenses with bare metal foil. Scribing and general surface prep takes most of the time as usual. 

 

 

 

A few "strengthening plates" cut on the plotter from clear acetate to cover up a few screw ups:

 

After an overall sand down with MicroMesh 1500 and steel wool, it's nearing the first coat of primer. Too many bits and pieces sticking out waiting to be knocked off in no time.

 

How the heck am I going to mask the red intake rings I have no clue...

 

 

 

I had a belly shot that was woefully out of focus, so that will be a part of the next update!

[skyhawk174]

Thanks for posting this. Your work looks awesome

 

I really have to get going on my Skyhawk. I only have about 10 in my stash so I really have no excuse not to build one. You build tips will come in handy for sure.

[Janissary]

Thank you. I too am inspired by many other builds. I meant to post this earlier, but here are a few links I have saved that might be of interest:

http://www.super-hobby.com/products/item_name-1336643.html
http://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/2926-148-hasegawa-a-4f-skyhawk/
http://www.zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=25674
http://www.rocketpunch.biz/2016/05/13/works-148-hasegawa-douglas-a-4e-skyhawk-topgun-56/
http://www.hyperscale.com/features/2001/a4mig17da_1.htm
https://jonbryon.com/a4c-html/
http://www.florymodels.co.uk/a-4-skyhawk/
http://zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=25201
http://www.helmo.gr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=348&Itemid=41
http://imodeler.com/2014/12/hasegawa-148-a-4f/
http://michalkomodels.blogspot.com/2016/05/a-4f-skayawk-va-22-flying-redcocks-148.html
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235001400-148-a-4f-va-93/
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/118588-haseagawa-148-a-4f-of-va-55-warhorses/
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/149830-skyhawks-scooters/

 

It might be overwhelming but there are lots of bits and pieces to that one could glean re 1/48 Skyhawk builds. I sure learn a lot from them.

 

[Fighting Eighty-Four]

Great progress and it looks awesome so far.  I am just starting a Hasegawa A-4M build myself, and this thread is full of GREAT information too. 

[Antoine]

On 29/01/2017 at 3:34 PM, ziggyfoos said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Fighting Eighty-Four said:

Great progress and it looks awesome so far.  I am just starting a Hasegawa A-4M build myself, and this thread is full of GREAT information too. 

 

Indeed!

Can't remember to have already seen a picture with Skyhawk loaded with M117.

[kurnass77]

Another beauty at the horizon my friend!
 

 

Gianni

[Janissary]

Thank you very much all. A small update. In my dry trials, I found this guy's observation about the landing gears accurate:

https://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/2926-148-hasegawa-a-4f-skyhawk/?do=findComment&comment=39908

 

So, I added a styrene disk to the opposite side and drilled the hole after it was set:

 

I needed something that looked like a piano hinge joint for the area underneath the arresting hook for visual interest. Drew up something in matlab, then cut it on my plotter. I was surprised how well the plotter actually cut the pattern. 

 

It will get lost under the tail hook though:

 

Primer on! Tamiya gray primer thinned with MLT and Tamiya Lacquer thinner. 

 

 

Landing gear stuff undercoated in black to create some contrast between the white under fuselage:

[Janissary]

In the picture below, you may see the mini clothespins. The alligator clips that I usually use for small pieces like these can be too damaging to the delicate parts. I recently bought these clothespins and have found them to be ideal to bridge the alligator clips and the delicate parts in this case: 

 

Base coat of white on.

 

For gull gray using Tamiya paints, I found 10 part X-2 (white), 1 part XF-19, 1 part XF-20 to be a good match. After I applied this though, I used MM Acryl Gull gray thinned with MM acrylic thinner as a second coat also. To my surprise, MM acryl sprayed beautifully:

 

 

 

Takeaways:

 

- This is my first time using MM acryl in a major way. The surface was cleaned with steel wool and then rubbing alcohol prior to priming, the primer was applied evenly, then the Tamiya gull gray before MM acyrl. So, if I run into paint lifting with masking tape etc., I have no one to blame but MM acryl. Based on the horror stories, I will be apprehensive.

 

- I used to use a clean background paper for WIP photography, but I am thinking of abandoning that. So, at least in this build, the progress photos will be against a bruised cutting mat. I may even not clean the workspace for the photos, so perhaps even more clutter will be in the pictures. My thinking is that the progress pics may be more raw/authentic that way. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Janissary

[Slartibartfast]

"Drew up something in matlab..."

 

ROFL!  Matlab?! I never would have expected anyone to use MatLab for a drawing program.  I purchased and installed MatLab in my IT role at a research facility. You didn't use MS Paint or CorelDraw, but MatLab! Awesome.

[Janissary]

Yes, Matlab comes handy in anything that has to do with numbers :)

 

I had a question for the experts. What would be the color of the undersides of the leading edge slats? I plan to paint the slat wells in red, but not sure what color the slats would be in. Essentially, trying to figure out the color on the underside of this guy's hand. TIA!

 

 

 

[Bob Beary]

On April 15, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Janissary said:

In the picture below, you may see the mini clothespins. The alligator clips that I usually use for small pieces like these can be too damaging to the delicate parts. I recently bought these clothespins and have found them to be ideal to bridge the alligator clips and the delicate parts in this case: 

 

Base coat of white on.

 

For gull gray using Tamiya paints, I found 10 part X-2 (white), 1 part XF-19, 1 part XF-20 to be a good match. After I applied this though, I used MM Acryl Gull gray thinned with MM acrylic thinner as a second coat also. To my surprise, MM acryl sprayed beautifully:

 

 

 

Takeaways:

 

- This is my first time using MM acryl in a major way. The surface was cleaned with steel wool and then rubbing alcohol prior to priming, the primer was applied evenly, then the Tamiya gull gray before MM acyrl. So, if I run into paint lifting with masking tape etc., I have no one to blame but MM acryl. Based on the horror stories, I will be apprehensive.

 

- I used to use a clean background paper for WIP photography, but I am thinking of abandoning that. So, at least in this build, the progress photos will be against a bruised cutting mat. I may even not clean the workspace for the photos, so perhaps even more clutter will be in the pictures. My thinking is that the progress pics may be more raw/authentic that way. 

I hope you won't go to the cluttered work space photos. Your photos are great the way they are. I want to see the model in progress and not a bunch of clutter all around and behind it.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Bob Beary

[Brenhen]

While there could be some variation throughout different squadrons and services, most of the pictures I have seen show the undersides of the slats as the same color as the underside of the plane. The first pic is a restored jet and the second is of an Israeli jet, but it seems pretty common from what I've seen

 

 

 

Hope that helps, though I am sure there will be some people that flew them or worked on them on this site that can give you a better answer

[ziggyfoos]

1 hour ago, Janissary said:

 What would be the color of the undersides of the leading edge slats? I plan to paint the slat wells in red, but not sure what color the slats would be in. Essentially, trying to figure out the color on the underside of this guy's hand. TIA!

 

Photos of the A-4s from Vietnam show you can go either red or white. The sides of the slats could also be red.

[ziggyfoos]

This isn't Navy, but it's from a good photo showing both white and red used at the same time in Vietnam (white on the wingtip on the A-4 at the far left, and red on A-4 at center/right):

Edited April 19, 2017 by ziggyfoos

[Janissary]

Thank you all very much for your responses. I truly appreciate all the references you're able to pull up to conclusively respond to my inquires. 

 

Ziggy, on the previous page, you mentioned that the decal set I have is inaccurate for VA-93 and I completely agree. The NF tail sign is woefully wrong, the blue colors are wrong, some decals are too big etc. After studying many VA-93 photos, this has begun to bug me more and more. May I ask how soon you think you will have your Scooter Part 4 decals ready? I thought about either drawing and printing my own decals, cutting masks and painting them, waiting for your decals, or just going ahead with what I have, but I am still pondering all these options. Anyway, just thought I'd ask in case your decals are about to be available. 

[ziggyfoos]

15 hours ago, Janissary said:

Ziggy, on the previous page, you mentioned that the decal set I have is inaccurate for VA-93 and I completely agree. The NF tail sign is woefully wrong, the blue colors are wrong, some decals are too big etc. After studying many VA-93 photos, this has begun to bug me more and more. May I ask how soon you think you will have your Scooter Part 4 decals ready? I thought about either drawing and printing my own decals, cutting masks and painting them, waiting for your decals, or just going ahead with what I have, but I am still pondering all these options. Anyway, just thought I'd ask in case your decals are about to be available. 

 

Unfortunately no timeframe update for a potential part 4.

[Janissary]

Ok, thanks for letting me know. A few layers of shading prior to some heavy weathering. I used light and dark tones of the base color, followed by a layer of thin H307:

 

 

 

I came across the picture below on a Squadron's video awhile ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcHZ9FmMYcU). Ultimately, I'll be aiming for something like this. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Janissary]

Now in the middle of endless masking. 

 

The radome tip painted in XF-4 primer yellow, then hairspray, then a mix of brown and black. Not chipped yet in the pic below. Refueling receptacle painted in Super Metallic chrome silver, but will need a wash:

 

It'll be a VA-93, no going back after painting the bars on the tail: