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8-gun nose conversion for Acc Min 1:48 B-25G?


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I don't think the G-model ever had an 8-gun nose.  It was based on the C/D airframe, some of which were modified with four guns in the nose with the glass painted over.  I don't think the actual solid 8-gun nose was introduced until the J-model.  That's not to say a B-25G wasn't modified in the field with one at some point..Mitchell noses were all interchangeable.

 

SN

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The 41st BG had some B-25Gs refurbished by the HAD on Oahu to receive the 8 gun nose. This was after the 41st BG returned from the Gilbert Islands. The 8 gun B-25Gs, all save one OD/NG were used from Okinawa. The exception was natural metal and was lost with all hands on a mission.

I think that they might have been modified with the rocket pylons under the wings. Air power magazine had a good article with several good, albeit small photos.

 

grant

 

The 41st BG B-25Gs also had the non-staggered waist gun positions like the later H and J models as well as the addition of a tail gunner position with a single 50 cal gun. 

Edited by gmat
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Thanks guys.  As Grant said, the 41st BG operated G models with 8-gun noses.  I am building this particular airplane and need to find the correct nose for it.  

"French Kiss" was the NMF G model with the 8-gun nose.  I have a photo of its nose as well.  

 

Thanks for the link, David!

 

41st BG001 croppeda.jpg

Edited by Cobrahistorian
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Hi Jon,

 

If you don't already have the information below, this posting to HS may be of assistance to you in building your model.

 

Don

 

********************************

 

Mitchells in Central and South Pacific- ' 43-44
December 8 2007 at 9:56 AM      Phil Marchese   (Login philmarchese)
HyperScale Forums from IP address 75.75.163.60

 

I recently completed a model of a 1945 version of the B-25G as used by the 41st BG in the final two months of the Air Offensive, Japan campaign. That plane was a NA96 that had gone thru at least four major modification programs. Pictures of the build were posted in the Monogram Bomber Build forum. I've repeated two here from phase 9 of the build (right/left).

 

My model is shown after the HAD refurbishment done for the 41 BG in early 1945. It has the J2* nose (8-gun), rocket racks and increased tail ammunition capacity (two cans). Some also had an armored waist window insert.

 

My model also shows the forked ILS antenna above the cockpit and single wing tip lings. Both these feature appeared on later blocks of the B-25G and B-25D (NA100). Earlier blocks did not have the system and had wing tip lights in pairs, above and below each wing tip.

 

The configuration has its origin in the NAA Kansas City 2081 change. NAA KC was under contract for 2080 B-25D and by the 2nd Quarter of 1943 was well into the B-25J design and production conversion planning. However the projected delivery was December, 1943. The AAF wanted an interim armament upgrade prior to the 2081 change. So circa May/June 1943 directed NAA to modify existing and future B-25D (NA87) and B-25G to the interim configuration.

 

The bombardier version became the B-25D2 series (not block, i.e. no dash) while the interim G pulled from any NA96 C-20 to G-10 block became the G-12. The key differences in the interim configuration were:

 

•    the unique tail gunners canopy with a single 50 cal. MG in the lower position;
•    unstaggered, enclosed waist windows similar to the 2081 change design but with symmetrical fairings;
•    and side package guns with 2 x 50 cal. MG each side.

 

During the NA100 contract for the last of the 2080 B-25D, the D2 configuration was produced on the assembly line rather than at the adjacent Fairfax modification Center. Martin Omaha’s modification center probably participated in the G-12 modification program, many B-25G IARCs histories indication passage thru the Center.

 

The G-12 carried the package guns only starboard (none port side outboard the cannon breech). The package blister was hinged and did not have to be removed to service the weapons. This was an improvement over the less aerodynamic shell-type developed in the SWPA and used by the FEAF**.

 

Many G-12 had been in the Central Pacific with the 75mm cannon nose since October 1943. HAD removed the plexiglas waist enclosures from those planes and added wind deflectors. The Central Pacific soon moved to an open tail position as it had done on its Liberators and removed the final section of the tail gunner's canopy which enclosed the rear face. In the process the MG was raised onto a pole mount and an ammunition can was mounted in the canopy fairing. The waist and tail changes were also done for the VII BC B-25D2 and many USMC PBJ1-D.

 

Many of the 75mm nosed B-25G-12 had the disruptive shade 42 blotching on the rear spine and leading and trailing edges of the flight surfaces.

 

The South Pacific B-25D2 and G-12 tended to keep the tail canopy complete but double the lower armament to 2 x 50 cal MG's. Waist windows were sometimes open but tended to remain enclosed also.

 

Later USMC 612 BOMBRON upgraded its PBJ1-D similar to 1945 HAD upgrade. The Squadron's D2 had left the States with the interim armament and nose mounted radar. HAD/EWA modified the open waist and tail. Now the top turret was removed from the mid-dorsal position and rocket capability added. The finish was changed from the two tone USN scheme to the Gloss Sea blue. The prescribed 20" night fighter national insignia was applied to the conversions.

 

When building the D2, omit the pilot exterior armor plate. It was not standard on the D2 configuration. Note that G and H carried only pilot side plates.

In summary, the four phase modifications shown on my model can be replicated in different combinations to build many Central Pacific and South Pacific B-25D2, B-25G-12 and PBJ1-D planes from the AAF 41 and 42 BGs or from USMC VMB 612***.

 

Footnotes:

 

1. * series (again, not block) for any B-25J with the nose modification applied)
2.  Many surviving 42 BG B-25G-12 were converted to commerce strafers added to MG's to the nose, removing the 75 mm cannon and adding a SWPA gun package to the pilot side.
3. *** Some VMB night intruders also carried the J2 nose kit, but I have not confirmed a D2 conversion with the J2 nose in either AAF or USMC units.
    
This message has been edited by philmarchese from IP address 75.75.163.60 on Dec 8, 2007 10:15 AM
This message has been edited by philmarchese from IP address 75.75.163.60 on Dec 8, 2007 10:14 AM
This message has been edited by philmarchese from IP address 75.75.163.60 on Dec 8, 2007 10:09 AM
This message has been edited by philmarchese from IP address 75.75.163.60 on Dec 8, 2007 10:08 AM
This message has been edited by philmarchese from IP address 75.75.163.60 on Dec 8, 2007 10:08 AM
This message has been edited by philmarchese from IP address 75.75.163.60 on Dec 8, 2007 10:04 AM

 

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Outstanding, Don. Thank you!  I've been studying this and the other photos from this small 41st BG grouping I picked up and trying to figure out how best to tackle building a model. With the arrival of the Acc Min kit here yesterday, I'm looking forward to getting started!

 

Jon

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12 hours ago, Cobrahistorian said:

Since I need the larger waist windows, I'm just gonna get the Monogram B-25J with the 8-gun nose and cannibalize it.  

 

Take care.  The J version waist gun windows were not the same as the B-25D2 or B-25G-12.  These were symmetrical top and bottom.  Here's a 41BG aircraft that shows the waist gun windows with the HAD modification.  The wind deflector is clearly visible at the front of the window fairing.  Lots of interesting detail in this image, i.e., the smooth contour MLG tire, rescue markings at the corners of the aft photographer's windows, starboard package gun. etc.  Other images show that a port side package gun was not installed and cockpit external armor plate on port side only.  The poor co-pilot.  Hopefully he had a full seat with the armor plate behind him.

 

Don

 

8gunG6%2041BG_zpscigfcoju.jpg

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At some point, I'd read that the B/C/D fuselage from the wing trailing edge back was deepened to make room for the new tail gunner station in the J, so it would take a lot of hacking to graft a J tail section onto a C/D or G forward fuselage. But maybe that wasn't your goal.

However well-known author Vic Tatelman flew with the Air Apaches during WW II and modified a B-25D airframe with an 8 gun J nose and a radar receiver to turn it into sort of (to me) an early Wild Weasel plane. Perhaps even better for a modeler, the OD was stripped and "Dirty Dora II" as it was renamed flew in bare metal with a big blue Bats Outta Hell head across the nose. Link to the story and a modeler who built one. I tried contacting him and got no reply. He made his own decals, which I'd like to have. 

http://www.adamsplanes.com/vic tatelman.htm

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Great info, everybody!  I never knew Gs were modified with J gun noses (I added a qualifier to my post because I figured it was possible that it happened, because about the only thing "standard" about B-25s in the PTO was the fact that almost all seem to have been modified to some degree!)

 

SN

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  • 2 years later...

I’ve finally gotten back around to doing this build.  Going through the EAA B-25H/J on Thursday inspired me.  Should have a Monogram donor kit here shortly with both a nose and waist windows for a good starting point.   Ordered Master barrels for all of the .50s too. 

 

Just need to get some new acrylic zinc chromate paint, and I’m off to the races!

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One of these days i plan on making a resin 8 gun nose. I just need to figure out how to work with reain. Lol 

 

I also plan on making a few other items. The navigator radar nose, top turret plug. 

 

I spent many years trying to track that kit down. I want to make a few post war RCAF birds that were converted hard bosed “J”’s.

 

Its a shame there aren’t any on the market right now. 

 

Sean

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  • 1 month later...

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